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  Watchdogs  (Read 3475 times)
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Offline theagentd

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« Reply #30 - Posted 2014-06-02 19:09:05 »

I was so aware it was just a game and had no reality to it, since it could never compare to the real situation

People, adults, getting scared, disgusted, disturbed my movies. Some imagery can be hard to process and triggered things like nightmares or even awake nightmares like I have experienced when I was like 9 and watched those kinds of movies.
All influences: events, what people say and do, things like movies - they all have to be processed and they ALL change you; the only question is how much and if its bad.

Common scenario: Person X is afraid or doesnt like a certain type of animal, because that animal was featured in a show and did (to a kid) scary things, so even today that person just doesnt like that animal. Is that really bad ? No. But everything we see changes us, and the younger we are the more it changes us and the harder it is to comprehend and process.

In watch dogs you see some one beating a person to death with a suitcase, as the edges of the suitcase ram into his head, get read, the body twitches and bleeds out on the concrete. Something that makes and adult queasy.

You're highlighting the exact problem! When are you suggesting that people learn the difference between real life and games/movies/books? You're implying that this isn't something that people should know until they're 18. Yes, a 10-year-old shouldn't see stuff like that, but even a 10-year-old should know the difference between fiction and reality, and to some extent understand that actions have consequences, let alone a 15-year-old. If a game is enough to trigger or justify you being violent, you have much bigger issues than the fact that you play video games.



Semi-off-topic personal experience
I play a lot of "violent" FPS games. Call of Duty, Battlefield, FEAR, Borderlands... Doesn't affect me at all. It's just a challenge similar to any other physical sport (just with a lot less injuries and physical violence, lol), not professional simulator programs. I would never mistake it for real life. I haven't been in a physical fight since I was 15 (I'm 21). At the same time, I can't stand seeing people get injured. I really have to try to avoid seeing stuff on Reddit and on TV where real people get injured because that shit gives me nightmares for days. My latest failure was seeing a thread on Reddit about how much more dangerous ski jumping used to be before they started using better and safer techniques. There was this YouTube clip of people crashing and then being carried away... Shit, I had nightmares for over a week, and every time it popped up in my mind I just got chills and started sweating... Give me a ski jumping simulator and I'd have fun trying to crash into the audience, because that'd be hilarious.

Myomyomyo.
Offline Cero
« Reply #31 - Posted 2014-06-02 20:17:45 »

If a game is enough to trigger or justify you being violent

This is not a video games causes violence topic. It never was.

Getting violent is the result of long chain of events of something that went wrong.
If the only effect from seeing something disturbing you can think of is getting violent yourself, I cant help you.
Of course desensitization is a direct effect which is very bad, but not directly what I was warning about.

Offline JESTERRRRRR

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« Reply #32 - Posted 2014-06-02 21:54:49 »

Like you say, everyone reacts differnetly.

Whenever I hear this story I cannot help but think, with all todays violence in different media types, we are actually far less violent than we used to be. It's human nature. People did all this stuff before we had video games and movies.





But seriously Watch Dogs, the story was so short, singular in focus and dissapointing. 20 hours? Try 7, didn't even rush it. So many characters with absolutely no purpose who we rarely see.

MAIN STORY SPOILER BEWARE
Like that Lucky Quinn, we have to eventually kill him, and I wasn't remotely interested, he and damien are sort of the two villains to go for, yet we barely see him all game. Also Clara dying, I couldn't have cared less, she rarely did anything beyond a quick phone conversation. Looking back to the killing of say Aeries in ff7.. thats how it's done.
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Offline Cero
« Reply #33 - Posted 2014-06-02 22:14:14 »

Whenever I hear this story I cannot help but think, with all todays violence in different media types, we are actually far less violent than we used to be. It's human nature. People did all this stuff before we had video games and movies.

Yes in this discussion games = movies = books = actual events you witness. The brain doesnt care too much what medium is used.
Also yes we were savages in medieval and wold west times. However in like the 40s and 50s it seems like the world was much much more polite.
Maybe thats a side effect from the war.
Japan is still incredible polite - and the sales of violent games like call of duty or GTA that make tremendous money in the west are basically 0 in Japan, while they buy visual novels and RPGs and whatnot.
Just seems to me that the modern west like violence(or the display of violence) a tick too much.

Offline Gibbo3771
« Reply #34 - Posted 2014-06-03 05:35:18 »

So yeah watchdogs, that was the topic right? Lol

I've been playing video games since I was 4, AFAIK it never affected my behaviour. I was (still am to a degree) quite a bad tempered person, I can easily get provoked and leather someone across the face. This has more to do with the fact I was brought up with a protective mother, dad was to busy gambling and drinking, she always taught me to stand up for myself and never let anyone walk over me. I never have.

Then again who am I to say that watching Abe walk into a mine or playing tekken had no influence on this? The brain is a very complicated piece of hardware, dangerous in the wrong hands.

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Offline theagentd

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« Reply #35 - Posted 2014-06-03 11:34:31 »

Whenever I hear this story I cannot help but think, with all todays violence in different media types, we are actually far less violent than we used to be. It's human nature. People did all this stuff before we had video games and movies.

Yes in this discussion games = movies = books = actual events you witness. The brain doesnt care too much what medium is used.
Also yes we were savages in medieval and wold west times. However in like the 40s and 50s it seems like the world was much much more polite.
Maybe thats a side effect from the war.
Japan is still incredible polite - and the sales of violent games like call of duty or GTA that make tremendous money in the west are basically 0 in Japan, while they buy visual novels and RPGs and whatnot.
Just seems to me that the modern west like violence(or the display of violence) a tick too much.

You can't possibly imply that there is a relationship between violent video games and "politeness". That's definitely more of a cultural thing, as is their preference in games. Most gamers in Japan also play games on consoles, since the average PC is tremendously weak. That aside, have you actually played any visual novels? There are quite a few of them that are famous in Japan that have really disgusting sexual and violent content, and obviously carry an 18+ rating.

Myomyomyo.
Offline kingroka123

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« Reply #36 - Posted 2014-06-03 15:41:48 »

Like you say, everyone reacts differnetly.

Whenever I hear this story I cannot help but think, with all todays violence in different media types, we are actually far less violent than we used to be. It's human nature. People did all this stuff before we had video games and movies.





But seriously Watch Dogs, the story was so short, singular in focus and dissapointing. 20 hours? Try 7, didn't even rush it. So many characters with absolutely no purpose who we rarely see.

MAIN STORY SPOILER BEWARE
Like that Lucky Quinn, we have to eventually kill him, and I wasn't remotely interested, he and damien are sort of the two villains to go for, yet we barely see him all game. Also Clara dying, I couldn't have cared less, she rarely did anything beyond a quick phone conversation. Looking back to the killing of say Aeries in ff7.. thats how it's done.

MORE SPOILERS HERE:

What about that choice in the end whether to kill Maurice or spare him? I think they really just throw that decision at you like you are supposed to care about what happens to him. The only real way you would know anything about him is if you listened to some of the "intercepted audio".

Offline opiop65

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JumpButton Studios


« Reply #37 - Posted 2014-06-03 15:57:20 »

Trying to say that video games affect how polite our culture is, is plain ridiculous.

We (as Americans) were far more well manered back in the 40/50s because of how the parents were back then. They didn't put up with the kind of "shit" that parents let slide today. I see my friends walk all over their parents and get whatever they want, that kind of thing just wouldn't happen back in the day.

Not to mention our culture as a whole is far more... Open and wild. We are Americans, we won our independence and our freedom and we'll be damned if anyone ever tried to take it from us. As a people we are just much more wild than other cultures, that's how our nation was built. People doing crazy stuff and never giving up whilst pursuing their dream in life. I mean sure, we are definitely not the same country we were years ago. We are much more money hungry and corrupt now. But I could almost gaurentee you that if a country ever invaded us, volunteer recruits into the military would sky rocket and bands of militiamen would come out of the woodwork, guerilla attacking the hell out of the enemy because well... 'Merica.

Japan has a completely different way of life and way different morals than us, I have no idea how you could compare the two country's "politness" based on video game playing.

Offline Cero
« Reply #38 - Posted 2014-06-03 16:56:44 »

Trying to say that video games affect how polite our culture is, is plain ridiculous.
...
based on video game playing.

You can't possibly imply that there is a relationship between violent video games and "politeness".

You guys simply never listen.

Quote
Yes in this discussion games = movies = books = actual events you witness. The brain doesnt care too much what medium is used.

To answer with a quote from Watch Dogs.
Everything is connected.

Everything you expose a brain, especially a young brain to compounds, and that results in a personality.

Offline opiop65

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« Reply #39 - Posted 2014-06-03 17:03:09 »

Excuse me.

Quote
Japan is still incredible polite - and the sales of violent games like call of duty or GTA that make tremendous money in the west are basically 0 in Japan, while they buy visual novels and RPGs and whatnot.

You are saying here that the west is far less polite than Japan because "westerners" play more violent video games than the Japanese. How was I not listening?

Yes, we have already talked about young children. It's not ok for them to play these kinds of games because yes, they will be desensitized to this kind of stuff and that may result in them thinking its ok for violence to happen. Does it happen a lot? I don't know. But the OP is 15. He isn't an adult, sure, but he sure as hell probably knows that killing someone is bad. You are pretty much saying that teenagers cannot use their minds and they are helpless to the world and whatever they see will instantly change how they view the world, and that simply isn't true. Teenagers are people too and they have learned all their life the difference between right and wrong, fiction and non-fiction. To imply they will suddenly forget all that and change the way their brain is wired is crazy.

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Offline theagentd

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« Reply #40 - Posted 2014-06-03 17:05:23 »

I'm sure video games are connected to our eating habits, the conflict in Syria and the severity of the consequences of the floodings in Bosnia and Serbia as well, but that doesn't mean the connection is significant compared to other influences. Implying that young people shouldn't play video games because it is a significant cause of them becoming impolite sounds like complete bullcrap to me.

Myomyomyo.
Offline Rayvolution

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Resident Crazyman


« Reply #41 - Posted 2014-06-03 17:42:27 »

You guys simply never listen.

I guess you ignored my 2,000 word research paper and all my sources too.

No evidence has shown that video game or media violence has has any long term effects on anyone, including our children. The only research that has attempted to show any correlation that was "successful" was paid for by anti-violence/anti-video game interest groups and mostly all of them are not taken seriously by the psychology community. If you really read into how the research was done in these experiments, it was extremely bias. :/

Your example that people would whip out their phone and record someone being beaten on the street has nothing to do with video game violence, it has to do with the bystander effect. That has been a problem long before violent video games.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/bystander-effect

Not to mention that, like previously mentioned, teen violence is currently at record lows. The problem is the media wants to report every time any teen acts out anywhere.

- Raymond "Rayvolution" Doerr.
Retro-Pixel Castles - Survival Sim/Builder/Roguelike!
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Offline Cero
« Reply #42 - Posted 2014-06-03 18:42:56 »

Excuse me.
You are saying here that the west is far less polite than Japan because "westerners" play more violent video games than the Japanese. How was I not listening?
>because
I never said "because". its an example of a society that doesnt value violent entertainment as much - showing that it can be different and the crime numbers are speaking for themselves. And yes its a culture thing, but I never said video games -> society of course its the other way around. Does that mean in a violent culture you just give up and expose a kid to everything ? In the US its ok, for people in Japan it would be like "oh my" and the reason is just "well its a different culture"... wow. doesnt change how the brain works.

That aside, have you actually played any visual novels? There are quite a few of them that are famous in Japan that have really disgusting sexual and violent content, and obviously carry an 18+ rating.
The "crazy" types are in a spotlight in the west for "weird japan" trope - but in fact those games are not very common there, just like all the other "crazy japan" things are not common in everyday life.
Plus I would imagine that those age rating labels are a little more respected and adhered in japan, but thats very hard to say , might be wrong.

Quote
Implying that young people shouldn't play video games because it is a significant cause of them becoming impolite
Not video games but any work nor suited for minors. And the cause is not direct but indirect: impressions that are hard to process - nothing more nothing less.

I guess you ignored my 2,000 word research paper and all my sources too.
You are talking about video games -> violence.
I am talking about any kind of impressions -> bad influence in young subconscious minds due to hard to process subject matter and imagery.
Like I said this discussion would be the same with any kind of inappropriate movie or book or song or actual real life footage.

Offline Cero
« Reply #43 - Posted 2014-06-03 19:02:35 »

Let me bottom line this,... again.

Everything a mind is subjected to changes it. The younger a brain is the easier it is to change. Old guys dont really change anymore (on average).
If kids today play only half as much video games as I did, a sizable portion of their growing up will be video games.
Impressions that mold their young brains.

Which has nothing to do with imitating what you see on the screen.

Offline Rayvolution

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Resident Crazyman


« Reply #44 - Posted 2014-06-03 19:16:41 »

I guess you ignored my 2,000 word research paper and all my sources too.
You are talking about video games -> violence.
I am talking about any kind of impressions -> bad influence in young subconscious minds due to hard to process subject matter and imagery.
Like I said this discussion would be the same with any kind of inappropriate movie or book or song or actual real life footage.

Ok, let me rephrase. Every single little thing we do ever has a mild to moderate effect on our brains. That's called "life experience". So yes, video games do effect our brains. Having said that;

video games are not shown to have any negative affects on our brains what so ever in any way. All modern research shows the affects video games gives us are positive, like increased hand eye coordination and enhanced complex logic and problem solving skills.

All of your examples have nothing to do with video games, they have to do with jackass teenagers/adults who weren't raised right, or societal problems that have existed since the dawn of man.

- Raymond "Rayvolution" Doerr.
Retro-Pixel Castles - Survival Sim/Builder/Roguelike!
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Offline theagentd

« JGO Bitwise Duke »


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« Reply #45 - Posted 2014-06-03 19:20:01 »

In the US its ok, for people in Japan it would be like "oh my"...
Really? Because from what I know the lower number of violent games comes more from lack of hardware. The most popular violent shooters were released on PC and Xbox, and neither of those two have a big market share in Japan. Many people were for example first exposed to shooters when Square-Enix published Call of Duty 4 on the PS3. CoD: Ghost sold 200 000 copies in Japan. If there was a significant effect on people due to those games, then Japan would be a prime example of a country where violent western video games are on the rise, but their crime rate has consistently decreased for 11 years straight and halved between 2002 and 2012.

I have never heard of shooter games being socially unacceptable in Japan. If you have any sources on that, I'd love to read them.

Myomyomyo.
Offline Cero
« Reply #46 - Posted 2014-06-03 19:41:17 »

but their crime rate has consistently decreased for 11 years straight and halved between 2002 and 2012.
I can't argue with that, but higher sales of course doesnt mean that minors play these games. And again I never said video games cause crimes ^^'
but at this point I have bottom lined this enough times...


jackass teenagers/adults who weren't raised right
I thought that includes parents who give no f**ks about what kinda movies, games and media your child is subjected to and what kinda friends he /she is hanging around with


If there was a significant effect on people due to those games
Which I have never said, to quote myself:
And yes its a culture thing, but I never said video games -> society of course its the other way around. Does that mean in a violent culture you just give up and expose a kid to everything ?

Offline Cero
« Reply #47 - Posted 2014-06-03 19:45:02 »

Paper that is kinda related to my argument: Digital media, the developingbrain and the interpretiveplasticity of neuroplasticity

Again if you feel like this has nothing to do with video games and disturbing imagery, I just dont have any breath anymore.

Offline Drenius
« Reply #48 - Posted 2014-06-03 19:58:00 »

This seems to have completely changed its rail now.
However, theories, therories with studies or statistics, but theories.
Offline KevinWorkman

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klaatu barada nikto


« Reply #49 - Posted 2014-06-10 13:26:45 »

Without touching any of the videogames/violence bickering, I'll comment on the original point of the thread.

I've played a couple hours of it, and it's... okay. Not great, not horrible, but about what you would expect from a typical summertime blockbuster action game.

Pros: My favorite part of this game is what it *could have been*. Just below the surface is another layer of mechanics that I wish they had explored more. I find myself thinking about "what if this part of the game worked slightly differently" and getting rather lost in my thoughts, which is pretty interesting. You can see the remnants of what they were going for (I hated that I couldn't shoot while driving until I realized they're encouraging me to think outside the gun and use more creative tactics), and when it works, it's really satisfying (using my *hacking skillz* to build a beepy-throwy-thingy and luring a guy over to an explodey-thing and then using my *amazing hacking phone thingy* to explode the explodey thing hasn't gotten old yet). The online bits are unobtrusive but interesting: between missions, the game occasionally invites you to play hide-and-seek with somebody trying to "hack you" which is pretty fun.

Cons: They took the original premise (let's make an open world that you can screw around with to solve your problems without shooting anybody) and then dumped a whole lot of extra junk on it (why am I playing a minigame where I drive a spider tank around in a virtual world?), and then they dumbed the whole thing down by about 75% (now it's sneaking time, ok now it's shooting time, now it's car chase time, uh oh your phone has detected a crime nearby to distract you from the story, do you want to do that). The story was written by a middle management guy in a blatant attempt to appeal to 18-35 year old guys who think they're much smarter than the rest of the sheep because they know how to install firefox instead of IE, which makes me cringe about once every 3 minutes. And even the stuff that doesn't make me cringe doesn't make any sense: I'm chasing down a guy for killing an innocent person, but in the process I've killed about 30 people myself. What's my motivation again?

Overall: The sneaky parts feel like one of the Arkham games, only instead of throwing bat-devices you're throwing computer-hacker-thingies, and instead of grappling up to a gargoyle, you're hacking into a camera. The shooty parts are shooty parts, and the driving parts aren't as bad as people make them out to be. In fact, the driving parts are some of the more satisfying parts *when they work*. The on-foot open-world parts almost seem cool (use your *hacker skillz* to profile a person and prevent a crime without being seen or using a gun), but then you realize that they aren't any more involved than the distractions you see in every open-world game and it all becomes much less interesting.

Bottom line: this game is incredibly overhyped, but I guess that was unavoidable. If you have 60 bucks to throw away and want to spend a Friday night drinking a beer and playing a new game, this isn't a bad choice. If you aren't sure about spending the money, you won't miss much by waiting for the price drop or just redboxing it. If you're expecting this to revolutionize open-world games, it won't. But it does have some interesting mechanics that make you think.. you're just thinking about how they could have been done better.

One thing I do keep thinking about is this: with all of these open-world-but-with-a-twist games coming out, I wonder if it's just a matter of time before somebody comes out with an open-world *engine*. I'd be very curious to see what kind of stuff indies come up with, if given the freedom to add their own layer on top of an open-world.

Static Void Games - Play indie games, learn game programming, upload your own games!
Offline JESTERRRRRR

Senior Devvie


Medals: 7
Exp: 1 year



« Reply #50 - Posted 2014-06-26 13:49:43 »

You didnt like the spider bit? I thought it was a clever way of adding some open world sandbox madness without completely blowing the premise of the story/character/game
Offline KevinWorkman

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Medals: 100
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klaatu barada nikto


« Reply #51 - Posted 2014-06-26 14:10:21 »

You didnt like the spider bit? I thought it was a clever way of adding some open world sandbox madness without completely blowing the premise of the story/character/game

Meh, not really. The "digital trips" as they're called in-game just feel like extra tacked-on junk, like maybe they had some extra code from an old project laying around and decided to throw it in there. They could have added so many other interesting things instead: the ability to fly (by stealing a plane or helicopter), police boats (want to get away from the cops? Just jump in the water!), police anything really (oh you're being particularly bad? That's it! We're calling the van!), the ability to shoot from your car (I go back on my previous statement about not being annoyed by that), other weapons or gadgets (how about non-lethal weapons, which would make so much more sense to the story). It almost feels like these things were left out on purpose, smells like future DLC to me.

I've since finished the story, and the whole thing was just kinda meh. I wasn't expecting it to live up to the hype, and I'm not an irate fanboy or anything, it just wasn't much to write home about.

I'm still waiting on a new Time Splitters game, haha.

Static Void Games - Play indie games, learn game programming, upload your own games!
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