Sun APIs ?  

depend if you can say JNI Cish is java  

I didn't mean to start any kind of rumors, but the language there does seem to indicate that anything using JNI is out.  I was hoping to elicit a confirmation or refutal of that from someone official.

Paul

Hmm... there aren't many games written in "pure" Java.

Gage should be fine. The only native part is the timer wich isn't needed if you use 1.5.

But... Jogl is ok and lwjgl isnt? Damn obscure if you ask me.

The spirit of the announcement seems to be "No thinly-disguised C++ games; no attempts to make java a "contributory" technology - these must be REAL java games that show off java-as-platform". (EDIT: which seems an excellent idea)

Given that, I'd have thought you could get things like LWJGL, Xith, etc approved with a nod. But...the GTG do have a history of ignoring the spirit of their own rules in favour of making life simpler for themselves, so... +1 for clarification, please!

Of course. Otherwise people could use their HWJGL (Heavy weight Jogl) which meant a game in C++ just being called by a Java wrapper. ;-)  What's on java.net is known to SUN however and so no cheating.


When they quote: it looks like all the core APIs (JOGL, JOAL, Jinput, etc) plus the other java.net projects like Odejava, Xith3d, etc. are allowed?

Anyway, the contest ist a good idea from SUN and helpers! Very nice. A pity they didn't announce it one year ago, so I would have had enough spare time to enter the contest, hehe. ;-)

No way.  We all know that to do a really impressive game we need to bind to better graphics APIs (and sound)... Sun knows it too, or JOGL wouldn't exist.

It makes NO sense to cripple the competition into a lame applet contest in a 320 by 200 window.

LWJGL should likely be included, but if it isn't it shouldn't cause much grief - they had to draw a clear line, and it is SO much easier for them to say the "CORE" APIs and java.net stuff are that line.

OpenGL is OpenGL after all.. so choosing LWJGL or JOGL  *for the purposes of this contest* shouldn't be a big deal.   The contest isn't about compiling with Jet, nor is it about download size or not touching AWT...  There are plenty of good reason to use LWJGL, but very few of them should prevent you from using JOGL and other core APIs for this contest and switching over to LWJGL for deployment with the "full" version of your game at a later date.

- Just to be clear though, yes I think LWJGL should be allowed.. but it isn't the end of the world if it isn't.

Even if you ignore the fact that they allow libraries from "Java.Net", their testers' system requirements specify an OpenGL 1.3 compatible graphics card.  There's no reason to mention that unless at least one OpenGL binding is allowed - I reckon JOGL at least must be in there.  So thankfully it's not only restricted to Java2D on 1.4.2!

(Not that Java2D is bad at all - it's just not some people's API of choice)

It'd be a major political mistake is what it'd be... but I don't care any more Just being the Bestest is good enough for me!

Cas

I sincerely hope the community API's such as LWJGL, JOGL, JOAL, Odejava and GAGE are allowed.  Since most people wouldn't write a game without using at least one of those, it's pretty foolish to ban them IMHO.

Will.

That's the point. Good summing.

Yes, easier as in ostrich!
Defining CORE api's to be something distrubuted by sun (j2xE) and then tag along some random stuff hosted by a random site is complete and utter crap!

So, for the sake of arguing, suppose I register lwjgl as a project on java.net you would then say it's all of a sudden allowable?

What sun has done, is to ignore a HUGE amount of community projects just because the choose NOT to be hosted by sun, crap crap crap I tell you.

If they wanted to do it PROPER they'd define what technologies that are allowed, NOT which site you may get the technology from! As they start out by saying that a technology should be PURE java I really think they're bending this several times around themselves to allow JOGL (or any other opengl binding) since it's not a pure java implementation.

ps. Out of curiosity, are there some problems with using JOGL with 1.4+ opengl since they don't allow it?

actually, I'd like to emphasize this statement:

If this is the case, I am off to register lwjgl as a project on java.net ...

as I see it (http://www.java.net/principles.html) I could just register LWJGL as a linking partner (http://www.java.net/linking.html) and LWJGL is allowable?

Calm, peace, tranquility.


The bulletin board, or the elected community board?  While the elected board's observations would be interesting, I don't think they can really have a say in things - just because Sun sponsors the contest and Sun sponsors the board doesn't imply any other connection.


No, I really don't think there's any maliciousness intended here.  I expect they'll either come back with a "Yes, of course LWJGL is allowed" or a "Whoops, didn't think about that, sorry".  This is just a typical Sun balls-up.  You must be used to them by now, eh?


No, not at all.  It's just reasonable to suppose that 1.3 is widely-deployed on testers' machines, but 1.4 is too recent to be guaranteed.  As the rules state, you can actually target whatever platform you want, but if the testers don't have access to whatever it is it's your responsiblity to provide hardware for them.  Technology using a Flock of Birds might be nice, but unless you've got a few demo units you can ship to people, it's probably best avoided!


No, because "Java.Net" APIs have already been explicitely mentioned as acceptable elsewhere in the document.


Don't be too hasty, grasshopper!  LWJGL made the decision to stay off Java.Net for good reasons, and the current situation really doesn't warrant changing that.  As you realise, if the rubber-stamp of being hosted at Java.Net is all that's required, then it's a bogus requirement.  No point allowing that policy to persist without good reason - let's get an official word on what's going on.

Note well: As of this moment we've had no Sun input or explanation as to what's going on.  It's much more likely that this is an oversight or just a plain screw-up, and until we get an official response there's no point jumping to conclusions.




EDIT: Ah, and there we are!

Excellent, just the answer I wanted to hear! - and I have already registered LWJGL as a linking partner - I have added the icon to our new site, however I need to confirm some stuff about the icon size it's HUGE!) before we can become a "java.net partner".