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  Old 3d graphics  (Read 65597 times)
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Offline JESTERRRRRR
« Posted 2014-12-22 03:58:32 »

So most people don't get it, but I'm a massive fan of some of the old so called terrible graphics from systems like the ps1, and earlier 3d pc games. I was wondering if anyone with more knowledge on 3d graphics than I could tell me what is causing a few of these, and maybe if there is a way I can achieve this today?

I think I get a few things - low resolution and linear filtering for that blurry look?



So in some games, (Dungeon Keeper (#3) - the floor) when you look up close at textures they begin to curve or warp?

Also on loads of playstation games when anything moves it sort it.. stutters around? #1 is silent hill, and at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI5FCJF-Fas&feature=player_detailpage#t=389  (6:29) you can see his hands going wild even though they are still.

I also don't understand how they used to light their games, even with modern hardware lighting is the bane of my life performance wise. The last 2 are resident evil survivor stories. I don't see they lit them, is it lightmaps for the level and ambient for the players? Whenever I used ambient lights everything looks terrible, but in the outdoor parts of Silent Hill I couldnt figure out how it was lit, but it does't look horrendous. And the colours, were they limited?

Purely as a hobby type project, I want to achieve the kind of graphical look many old playstation games had and am a huge fan of low poly models of which I make many.

(I know #2 is pre-rendered backgrounds not sure why I included that one)
Offline Rayvolution

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« Reply #1 - Posted 2014-12-22 04:02:17 »

While I'm not an expert on it, I think most of the old PSOne quality graphics were a side effect of extremely low polygon textures and complicated render culling to improve performance that didn't always work very well, but was still pretty much required to get a decent frame rate.

As for the blurriness, that's just simply really low resolution blurry textures rendered on SD resolution displays, either with or without interlacing depending on if it was a console game on an old CRT TV or a PC with a (usually) higher quality CRT.

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Offline NegativeZero

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« Reply #2 - Posted 2014-12-22 04:14:04 »

One way of achieving something like this is to render the scene to a scaled down FBO, as seen here:

Got back to programming and started looking what kind of style I'm going with this project.

Probably going this way Smiley

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Offline JESTERRRRRR
« Reply #3 - Posted 2014-12-22 18:25:37 »

Just tried rendering to a smaller fbo and fillining the screen with it, looks pretty cool! Still curious about how they lit stuff though if anyone knows
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #4 - Posted 2014-12-22 19:00:55 »

Quote
So in some games, (Dungeon Keeper (#3) - the floor) when you look up close at textures they begin to curve or warp?
That's because older software renderers as well as the PS1 couldn't do perspective correct texture mapping. I don't think that you can disable perspective correction on current hardware. You might be able to set some hint but the hardware will most likely ignore it.

Offline ags1

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« Reply #5 - Posted 2014-12-22 19:09:04 »

Quote
So in some games, (Dungeon Keeper (#3) - the floor) when you look up close at textures they begin to curve or warp?
That's because older software renderers as well as the PS1 couldn't do perspective correct texture mapping. I don't think that you can disable perspective correction on current hardware. You might be able to set some hint but the hardware will most likely ignore it.

Ah, but you could write a shader to get the effect :-)

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #6 - Posted 2014-12-22 19:20:17 »

Ah, but you could write a shader to get the effect :-)
Yes, you could, but i really don't think that it's worth the effort.

Offline ags1

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« Reply #7 - Posted 2014-12-22 19:31:53 »

I agree with you completely. The OP seems to think otherwise, so I was just pointing out it is possible.

Offline pitbuller
« Reply #8 - Posted 2014-12-22 19:58:41 »

Quote
So in some games, (Dungeon Keeper (#3) - the floor) when you look up close at textures they begin to curve or warp?
That's because older software renderers as well as the PS1 couldn't do perspective correct texture mapping. I don't think that you can disable perspective correction on current hardware. You might be able to set some hint but the hardware will most likely ignore it.

You just need to set interpolation type qualifier as [noperspective]. Simple as that.
Offline Jacob Pickens
« Reply #9 - Posted 2014-12-22 20:00:05 »

Got back to programming and started looking what kind of style I'm going with this project.

Probably going this way Smiley

Whoa, what game is that? That is beautiful.

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Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #10 - Posted 2014-12-22 22:07:48 »

You just need to set interpolation type qualifier as [noperspective]. Simple as that.
Interesting (but still pointless... Wink) ! I wasn't aware of that option.

Offline JESTERRRRRR
« Reply #11 - Posted 2014-12-22 22:16:14 »

Speaking as someone who has no clue what that means, (and despite it being pointless Tongue) where would one look to find a way of setting that...
Offline Cero
« Reply #12 - Posted 2014-12-23 12:26:48 »

I dont get what you guys mean by "pointless"... the point is to make it look like a PSX game, so.. it has a point
WHY is a different question which is probably fueled by nostalgia, which is fine Cheesy

so yeah low polygons, no AA, low res textures, low res screen
another thing is pre rendered backgrounds. so much pre rendered. I mean look at RE 1



3 models and one background texture, ok maybe 4, one more for the optional knife

Offline Cero
« Reply #13 - Posted 2014-12-23 12:29:34 »



690 polygons

Offline lcass
« Reply #14 - Posted 2014-12-23 13:47:49 »

Texture curving and warping is due to them not interpolating the texture values based upon the 3d position , instead they have a large number of textured triangles , when you zoom they change shape the texture is the same.
Offline Oskuro

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« Reply #15 - Posted 2014-12-24 01:31:52 »

... another thing is pre rendered backgrounds. so much pre rendered.

For some reason I really like the graphics from the first Alone In The Dark, although I guess those are way too primitive for the OP (No lighting, software rendering).





Offline Rayvolution

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« Reply #16 - Posted 2014-12-24 02:27:51 »

... another thing is pre rendered backgrounds. so much pre rendered.

For some reason I really like the graphics from the first Alone In The Dark, although I guess those are way too primitive for the OP (No lighting, software rendering).


Offtopic: Man, I remember when Alone In The Dark was released, it was so groundbreaking and revolutionary.. Tongue

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Offline JESTERRRRRR
« Reply #17 - Posted 2014-12-24 19:30:35 »

Acually I love that too, in particular the textureless flat shading of the main character.

I even went as far as to remove textures in one of my billions of projects (kept lighting though, character uses a head torch)
Offline Corvid

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« Reply #18 - Posted 2014-12-24 20:00:42 »

The original PS1 Silent Hill is one of those games that gains a lot from its crappy graphics. It's a bit like looking at an old pinhole photograph in that it becomes a bit abstract in places and your imagination takes over and fills in the gaps. I believe the imagination is more powerful than anything, so I actually get your point.

That, and the way it uses fog /darkness to keep the draw distance down really made it terrifying IMO.  Playing it on an emulator with smooth shading and filtering etc actually removes something!
Offline Corvid

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« Reply #19 - Posted 2014-12-24 20:03:07 »

Jester, which project is that, and is it downloadable/playable?
Offline JESTERRRRRR
« Reply #20 - Posted 2014-12-24 20:11:31 »

The original PS1 Silent Hill is one of those games that gains a lot from its crappy graphics. It's a bit like looking at an old pinhole photograph in that it becomes a bit abstract in places and your imagination takes over and fills in the gaps. I believe the imagination is more powerful than anything, so I actually get your point.

That, and the way it uses fog /darkness to keep the draw distance down really made it terrifying IMO.  Playing it on an emulator with smooth shading and filtering etc actually removes something!

100% yes less = more imo. I think what you said it something I find true of many blurry old textures.

Corvid, out of interest which look do you prefer? It was an attempt to create a Resident Evil like game, uses fixed camera positions but not pre-rendered backgrounds. There is nothing to do bar walk around and press light switches and a few other buttons. Kind of re-making it with a different twist, havn't made any playable versions
Offline orange451

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« Reply #21 - Posted 2014-12-25 21:59:46 »

The PS1 had terrible vertex precision, a low-bit depth buffer, and it didn't render 3d like openGL does today. If you tried to access a PS1 games "3d" pipeline you will only receive a 2d quad rendered to the screen Smiley Also, PS1 games seemed to use more frame-based animation instead of bone-skinning (though I can't speak for all games).

That, and almost all visual effects were done via textures. Most games couldn't afford shaders; things like lights/shadows were pre-rendered onto textures.

I personally think art was better back in the PS1 era. Artists were so limited by resources, that they had to jam quite a high amount detail into a limited space.

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Offline pitbuller
« Reply #22 - Posted 2014-12-26 20:46:02 »

Absolute good read about PS1 stuff and crash bandicoot.
http://all-things-andy-gavin.com/2011/02/02/making-crash-bandicoot-part-1/
Offline Cero
« Reply #23 - Posted 2015-01-08 05:30:00 »

The PS1 had terrible vertex precision, a low-bit depth buffer, and it didn't render 3d like openGL does today. If you tried to access a PS1 games "3d" pipeline you will only receive a 2d quad rendered to the screen Smiley Also, PS1 games seemed to use more frame-based animation instead of bone-skinning (though I can't speak for all games).

That, and almost all visual effects were done via textures. Most games couldn't afford shaders; things like lights/shadows were pre-rendered onto textures.

Yeah i heard that too. I mean the PSone had 3 mb of RAM  :|

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