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  My Game have creative commons Resources ( images/audio) ,Can i still sell it?  (Read 1925 times)
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Offline nsigma
« Reply #30 - Posted 2013-11-26 01:38:36 »

@CodeHead Danny02 is right, nothing I've said has claimed "must open source", this is all about the end product - that which is shared.

And the argument that a game is a collection is both ridiculous (might as well say a music track is a collection of samples), and rebutted on the CC wiki.

Praxis LIVE - open-source intermedia toolkit and live interactive visual editor
Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections
Offline CodeHead

JGO Coder


Medals: 36


From rags to riches...to rags.


« Reply #31 - Posted 2013-11-26 01:41:10 »

@Danny:
However, you would also need to satisfy the share-alike portion of the license, which means that anyone you distribute the game to would be allowed to distribute it further and/or decompile and modify it, as long as they retained attribution and shared it in a like manner.

The right to de-compile the code is equivalent to granting a right to access source code. You do realize that as a creator of an engine you have the right to forbid such things as many pieces of software does. The problem is that the notion is being put forth that you forfeit those rights when you use CC assets and it's not backed up by anything I've seen from the CC license or anybody connected to it.

Arthur: Are all men from the future loud-mouthed braggarts?
Ash: Nope. Just me baby...Just me.
Offline nsigma
« Reply #32 - Posted 2013-11-26 19:48:37 »

The right to de-compile the code is equivalent to granting a right to access source code.

That's just so wrong!  OT - love to see you try and use that excuse in a GPL violation case.  Grin

You do realize that as a creator of an engine you have the right to forbid such things as many pieces of software does.

That seriously depends on what jurisdiction you're under, for private use at least.  It's not actually relevant to my argument ...

The problem is that the notion is being put forth that you forfeit those rights when you use CC assets and it's not backed up by anything I've seen from the CC license or anybody connected to it.

A "game" as a whole is a derivative work of the asset - that is explicitly mentioned on the CC wiki.  The CC-BY-SA license protects your right to freely distribute and modify the derivative work as a whole, hence that includes fiddling with any compiled code that is distributed.  It does not include the right to access or modify the source code if that is not shared with you, hence my position above.

Asset is to game engine what data set is to database engine.

Aside from the obvious failure in that analogy that data sets are often not subject to copyright due to lack of creativity (facts cannot be copyrighted), there is some support for your position on the wiki page linked to.  It's generally down to where the derivative / adaptation line is drawn between code and data.  If the code is only designed to work with the assets, ie. has hard links to the assets, then the whole is probably covered, particularly if the code creatively manipulates the assets.  If you have a generic game engine, that can work with any assets / scripts, then it is possible that the CC license only covers all the specific assets and scripts that make that specific game work.  This is all a seemingly grey area, and one that the CC people seem to be looking to elucidate better.

Praxis LIVE - open-source intermedia toolkit and live interactive visual editor
Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections
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Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline CodeHead

JGO Coder


Medals: 36


From rags to riches...to rags.


« Reply #33 - Posted 2013-11-27 00:00:43 »

That's just so wrong!  OT - love to see you try and use that excuse in a GPL violation case. 

And what would the basis be for a GPL violation be in your scenario? Huh I'm not suggesting that you can license something as GPL and not release the source with the binaries. The reason GPL was brought up at all was in reference to the code existing under a diferent license than the resources and the implication that brings of the two being distinct and separate entities and the possibility that code can exist under a license that is closed source while still respecting the conditions of the license that accompanies the assets.

That seriously depends on what jurisdiction you're under, for private use at least.  It's not actually relevant to my argument ...

Granted, but for the purposes of this discussion, lets limit it to jurisdictions which do recognize the "rights of code protection" since CC is only as binding as the local copyright laws it's backed by. It's still a pretty wide swath of nations. I'm also of the opinion that private use is a different matter as it has causes no real detriment to the licensing party when done for educational purposes.

Aside from the obvious failure in that analogy that data sets are often not subject to copyright due to lack of creativity (facts cannot be copyrighted).

Not copyrighted, but they can carry a property right which is very similar: Sui Generis Database Rights.

When you think of what a game engine really is, the analogy really isn't that far off though depending on how the engine is structured I could see a valid point of disagreement with it.

It's generally down to where the derivative / adaptation line is drawn between code and data.

And I think this is where the current sticking point is between our point of views.

If the code is only designed to work with the assets, ie. has hard links to the assets, then the whole is probably covered, particularly if the code creatively manipulates the assets.

I agree with that. If the code only works with a specific data set, then you've established a dependancy and thus shown the engine to be a derivative work.

If you have a generic game engine, that can work with any assets / scripts, then it is possible that the CC license only covers all the specific assets and scripts that make that specific game work.

Which was my larger point. It also fits with the idea of the CC assets being a collection which (in the legal language) is defined by CC as:
Quote
“...the Work in its entirety in unmodified form along with one or more other separate and independent works, assembled into a collective whole".

This opens up interesting questions such as would an in game effect that didn't modify the original file make the game count as a derivative work if the effect was a generic effect that could apply to anything? For example, I apply a fade in/fade out to a screen that displays CC image as part of the intro to a game. Does that count as a derivative work? At what point does and doesn't de minimus apply. I would imagine that many lawyers have become rich arguing over the varied nuances involved.

This is all a seemingly grey area, and one that the CC people seem to be looking to elucidate better.

Indeed. Due to the complexities of copyright/copyleft in general, I have a feeling that clarity will continue to be elusive.

Good conversation BTW. Grin Respect. Cool

Arthur: Are all men from the future loud-mouthed braggarts?
Ash: Nope. Just me baby...Just me.
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