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  libgdx or unity  (Read 2499 times)
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Offline wassupman

Junior Newbie





« Posted 2014-04-20 16:47:31 »

Hello I'm dabbling in both tools.  As I look at libgdx it feels quite low level - especially how sprites are handled.  Besides the cost of unity and the worse performance on devices, I get the feeling that overall dev time would be much less there.  Can anyone share their thoughts if you've been in a similar situation?  I plan to target native android and ios 2d games.  Thanks!
Offline opiop65

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« Reply #1 - Posted 2014-04-20 16:48:59 »

Please use the search bar before creating new topics, this question has already been asked plenty of times. Not to mention a little research on the internet could tell you everything you need to know.

Offline Gibbo3771
« Reply #2 - Posted 2014-04-20 18:00:35 »

If you think libgdx is low level, your already f**ked.

Do a little reading, so far it sounds like you just want the easy route.

No such thing.

"This code works flawlessly first time and exactly how I wanted it"
Said no programmer ever
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Offline kingroka123

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« Reply #3 - Posted 2014-04-20 19:46:51 »

Dude, LibGDX is nowhere near "low-level". Unity and LibGDX are so different, you can't compare them like that.Here's the thing, if you want to get right down into the nitty-gritty of the code (which i prefer) use libgdx, if you want a quick product without much work (relative to project size), use Unity. Either way, you'll get an app.

Online Jimmt
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« Reply #4 - Posted 2014-04-20 20:16:44 »

If you think libgdx is low level, your already f**ked.

Do a little reading, so far it sounds like you just want the easy route.

No such thing.
Libgdx is low level compared to tools like Unity/Unreal Engine, yet several games that use those have been extremely successful. How can you say someone is "f**ked" just based on their choice of libraries? And "easy route" sounds like something an (immature) C++ programmer would say to a java developer. Come on.
Offline SwordsMiner

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« Reply #5 - Posted 2014-04-20 20:58:05 »

Technically Unity has nothing to do with java. Unity uses a "modified" java  Wink. Heres my analogy, its like those website makers, you can make a pretty decent website, or you could spend your time learning the core and the complete low level stuff so you can make whatever you need. Same for games in this aspect.

- The one and only, SwordsMiner.
Offline Gibbo3771
« Reply #6 - Posted 2014-04-20 21:15:41 »

If you think libgdx is low level, your already f**ked.

Do a little reading, so far it sounds like you just want the easy route.

No such thing.
Libgdx is low level compared to tools like Unity/Unreal Engine, yet several games that use those have been extremely successful. How can you say someone is "f**ked" just based on their choice of libraries? And "easy route" sounds like something an (immature) C++ programmer would say to a java developer. Come on.

He came on here and asked a stupid question, hell he even answered it himself.

Immature? Yah maybe, realistic? Most likely.

He wants to target android and iOS, he had not mentioned anything about his prior coding experience, he seems to think that sprite.draw() is complicated.

All I see from reading the OP that he wants the fastest, least difficult way to pump out an app and milk the cash cow, the mobile market is being destroyed as it is.

If he feels like posting with some passion about the language we use here, about his goals and less about what can get him from A to B without the effort.

Then I will post a helpful reply, sorry. Just the way I see it. Harsh but at least I don't sugar coat it.

"This code works flawlessly first time and exactly how I wanted it"
Said no programmer ever
Online Jimmt
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« Reply #7 - Posted 2014-04-20 21:23:30 »

First of all, I don't see how you classify this as a "stupid question" when he's just asking of the choice of libraries. At least no one's asked about unity before. Everyone asks questions like this, including you.

Telling someone their future in game development solely by the engine they use is pretty immature imo. I mean, you don't even know anything about him, except that he prefers shorter development times.

Fastest, least difficult way to make an app? I don't see the issue with this. You see, in the real world, people who develop apps for a living have to eat, pay rent, etc. I think it's easier to pay for those things if you make apps faster. I don't see how your criticism of "milking the cash cow" is justified in any way. We're all looking to make apps that sell or become popular; putting a price on it is just a way to survive.

You yourself have already admitted that you're not exactly being helpful here. I would advise you judge people on more than 3 lines of text that don't say much.
Offline opiop65

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« Reply #8 - Posted 2014-04-20 21:53:23 »

I do have to agree with Jimmt here, Gibbo that was a little unwarranted. Sure, the OP could have easily researched the question and libraries and drawn a conclusion for himself, but what you said just crosses the line between useful criticism and flat out bashing on someone.

I would encourage you to check yourself whenever you're posting, just because you know more does not mean you have more power and can insult others like you have been. Its not cool.

Anyway, time to stop derailing the thread.

Offline saucymeatman
« Reply #9 - Posted 2014-04-20 22:39:36 »

Have you used JMonkeyEngine? Its got the control of LibGDX and very nice 3D features.

The overall dev time in unity might be less sometimes, but not always. Its dependant on your experience with it and the project itself. Unity's scene editor is awsome though, I'm not sure if JMonkey has one.
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Offline Slyth2727
« Reply #10 - Posted 2014-04-21 00:14:00 »

Well here's the basic explanation:
If you want to actually code the app (which it doesn't seem like you do) and want to have everything like image loading, transforms, and shader loading done for you choose LibGDX (2D) or jMonkeyEngine (3D).
If you prefer not learning anything about coding and just getting an application out, use Unity/Unreal.

If you actually want to learn something, learn Java first. Then check out LWJGL.

This has all been explained a million times before, so next time just use the search bar. However now you should have all the information you need to make a choice.

Was I before Chuang Tzu who dreamt about being a butterfly, or am I now a butterfly who dreams about being Chuang Tzu?
Offline Cero
« Reply #11 - Posted 2014-04-21 01:05:23 »

I wanted to say a lot but Jimmt kinda summed it up.

Immature? Yah maybe, realistic? Most likely.
Nah.
Number of triple A / very successful libgdx games: 0 so far, hopefully more to come (lwjgl has a handful)
Number of unity games: MANY. (biggest one is probably Dreamfall Chapters right now)

I would also argue that libgdx is pretty low level at times; Like I cannot by default load a non power of 2 texture... that implies knowledge of GPU architecture to understand why
Also spritebatching / caching... who cares ? As a GAME developer all I know is that I want that graphic to be on the screen, dont care how.

Now Gibbo, I dont like Unity very much personally, but here is something you gotta understand:
Passion and ambition for making games doesnt have to include passion for programming.
Programming can be fun but as a GAME developer you want your vision on the screen, thats THE MOST important thing.
People who dont know anything about programming are not impressed by your engine or framework or whatever; However they can be impressed by graphics, gameplay, sound / music, level design, story, characters ... you know A GAME. In the end it really doesnt matter what technology you use if it works for you.


Also I should mention I once thought just as you... I hated Unity and people who used it and were like duuuuh I made a game without fucking knowing one thing about programming and of course it sucked and their pathetic clone of space invaders lagged.
I was kinda thinking: everyone should understand everything that they are using (or at least be interested in)
and that last part is fair but, like, I cannot study chemistry, biology and medicine so that I know exactly what a drug does, I have to trust the doctor, more or less.
I cannot also additionally become a mechanic and figure out my car... to some degree I have to trust the mechanic.

A game developer first and foremost has a vision that has to turn into a game. The fact that code is involved is... accidental.

Offline StumpyStrust
« Reply #12 - Posted 2014-04-21 04:06:25 »

Wish I could give you another medal Cero.

Offline ImTroyMiller
« Reply #13 - Posted 2014-04-21 07:58:35 »

LibGDX is a framework/API, Unity is an engine.  Unity utilizes C#, LibGDX utilizes Java.

Assuming that you made this thread on this forum because you are familiar with Java, I would recommend LibGDX, especially with 2D Android/IOS games.  There's a lot of tutorials out there.

BTW, LibGDX isn't low-level, it takes care of the low level things(like dealing with OpenGL) for us.

Also, I wouldn't worry about development time.  Focus on quality.
Offline Gibbo3771
« Reply #14 - Posted 2014-04-21 11:29:09 »

I owe the op and jimmt an apology, everyone else as well.

I really should turn my data off on my phone when I'm out drinking, I'm just a grumpy and bitter bastard.

I seen unity in a post and jumped on it like flies on shite.

Wont happen again. If so just ban me.

@OP unity is a basically a very advanced (and expensive) version of things such as game maker or RPG maker. It is far more GUI based than code based, you wont need to deal with the nitty gritty of the code.

LibGDX is not low level, it might look a little daunting at first. Especially if your new to Java, however it is a very powerful library with easy to read code. The most complicated things can be learned after a fair few hours messing with them. Such as box2d (built in physic engine) or scene2d (built in GUI library).

You need to figure out what you want from your projects, chiding experience or experience using an engine like unity.

IMO you will learn far more with coding, thats just me.

"This code works flawlessly first time and exactly how I wanted it"
Said no programmer ever
Offline princec

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« Reply #15 - Posted 2014-04-21 13:12:24 »

Your punishment next time will be to be tickled by the Royal Feather Duster.

Cas Smiley

Offline StumpyStrust
« Reply #16 - Posted 2014-04-21 22:00:31 »

I saw unity in a post and jumped on it like flies on shite.

Fixed  Tongue (I think at least)

Nice to see people willing to be understanding on the interwebs.

Online MatthewNicholls

Junior Member


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« Reply #17 - Posted 2014-04-22 00:35:59 »

@Cero
Quote
The fact that code is involved is... accidental 
Did you mean incidental? Cool
Most of my accidental code is just bad coding. It would be so cool to write a game engine by accident. So far I've written a lot and it is mostly intentional  Grin

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Offline Cero
« Reply #18 - Posted 2014-04-22 00:44:06 »

@Cero
Quote
The fact that code is involved is... accidental 
Did you mean incidental? Cool
Most of my accidental code is just bad coding. It would be so cool to write a game engine by accident. So far I've written a lot and it is mostly intentional  Grin

Well you kinda do... "We wanna make game X" ... do that we have to write an engine... or license one - so that process is a step and accidental. If there was an alternative we might consider it

Offline Unkn0wn0ne

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« Reply #19 - Posted 2014-04-22 02:52:30 »

Hello I'm dabbling in both tools.  As I look at libgdx it feels quite low level - especially how sprites are handled.  Besides the cost of unity and the worse performance on devices, I get the feeling that overall dev time would be much less there.  Can anyone share their thoughts if you've been in a similar situation?  I plan to target native android and ios 2d games.  Thanks!

I'm going to try to remain as unbiased as possible during this.

I haven't used Unity much, but I have used libGDX a lot, so please feel free to call me out on any misunderstands I have come across and I will happily address them.

To sum things up about everything: I cannot, nor can anyone else here give you the answer you are looking for. We do not know enough about your project and what it needs to get accomplished.

libGDX handles all the platform specifics such as an OpenGL instance, classes for audio, classes for file system access, classes for input access and various sensors such as accelerometers.  Lastly and most importantly, it gets your code running on all those platforms. All those core functions are abstracted so that you have access to each of them on all the platforms they function for. libGDX has been optimized in a lot of areas for performance and also handles certain performance-demanding tasks in native code. It contains a lot of various utilities such as scene2d, box2d, Bullet physics, and other utilities. Essentially libGDX gives you all the tools, sets all the platform specific setup, tasks, workarounds, and other fun stuff for you, and allows you to have to have full control over your game while not having to worry about the various transitions for iOS, Android, HTML5, and Desktop. For libGDX, you don't need to know much about the platform specifics if you don't want to, all you really need to know is how to upload to the App store and similar tasks, which is mostly taking care of thanks to Gradle.

Unity handles all those platform specifics as well, but it abstracts heavily away from those specifics. It's kind of like learning a new programming language with the C# syntax and all the classes that the version of Mono it uses supports. Now keep in mind this isn't necessarily bad, and can save you a lot of work, but you must do things the Unity way from what I understand . Unity is very powerful, just like libGDX, and contains a large amount of utilities for various tasks. You don't have to worry much about platform specifics because they really don't matter. Now this does come with a slight loss of freedom in the sense that you have a very developed engine that you have to build on top of instead of being able to call all the shots. Now this isn't bad either, but it depends on your needs whether or not this approach benefits you.

TL;DR / Conclusion: libGDX or Unity you can still accomplish the same tasks, but in libGDX you have the ability to make more of the calls when it comes to the design of the game.

Hope this helps!

Offline Nate

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« Reply #20 - Posted 2014-04-22 19:52:19 »

Number of triple A / very successful libgdx games: 0 so far, hopefully more to come
Apparatus has made millions and there's Ingress by Google, KiwiUp's games and many others.

Offline Cero
« Reply #21 - Posted 2014-04-23 00:57:05 »

Number of triple A / very successful libgdx games: 0 so far, hopefully more to come
Apparatus has made millions and there's Ingress by Google, KiwiUp's games and many others.

Ingress uses libgdx ? Srsly ?
Why would google themselves, even though its a sub studio use anything other than the android SDK that they wrote themselves ?
Thats like microsoft using MONO  :O

Offline Riven
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« Reply #22 - Posted 2014-04-23 08:31:07 »

Isn't it great that some companies/developers don't care too much about politics and just use the tool that best fits the job at hand?

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
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