the contest is drawing to close now. we need judges to volunteer so we can start judging on time (by March 1st).

just a quick note, judges cannot have a game in the contest.

It's a conflict of interest. As a judge, you're in a position to give the competing games a lower score. This can be done intentionally (sabotaging the scores to raise your own score) or unintentionally (unconciously comparing other games to your own). Thus it's best that judges are not entered in the contest.

Unless anyone wants me not to be a judge (like if they want to see how their games does compared to mine), I'd be willing to judge. :-)

ok then. But if you're a judge short, let me know. =)

I thought you'd have some guys from industry or research, senior developers or the like, as judges. Soo ... am I getting this right, contest judges are pulled from people from this board who did not manage to contribute to the contest themselves?

 

Wolfgang

"I'm a ****ing starship, I'm allowed to cheat!"
GCU Arbitrary, Culture Craft

To make this very clear: It was not my intention to imply that people not submitting to the contest are somehow less qualified to sit in as judges than participants of the contest. I'm totally aware of the many reasons (including serious work  ) which can hinder finalization of a submission, and I found myself hard-pressed to complete my submission, too, because of project deadlines at work.

However, recalling the discussion about the pros and cons of a public vote, I was under the impression that you had professionally qualified judges available, that people at least as adept in Java development as the best of us would judge our entries. Knowing that this is not the case, I tend more towards a public vote than before: If the outcome of the contest is to be determined by members of this community, then let it be many, if not all, of us.

Wolfgang

"I'm a ****ing starship, I'm allowed to cheat!"
GCU Arbitrary, Culture Craft

It's a mistake to get hung up on voting in this competition. The entries are so different voting for the 'best game' is pretty much meaningless, imho.  It'll come down to what type of game the judge likes; if he likes shooter he may pick xero, if he likes tech, he may favor ares or frag4k, if he likes racing games he may favorer speed4k etc...  You can't win really, so there's no point in being anal about it.

Having said that, last year blah, S. Campbell, and Chris M. were judges; Chris is a Sun VP and blah and Shawn are professional developers so I thought that was a nice mix.

Hey, gameplay has to count for a lot! If the tech is amazing and the gameplay is sucky, I'd go find another game 8-) Which I imagine is what'd happen with a general vote. The really cool games that you keep coming back to (Fuzetsu and Miners have both grabbed me) would be the ones that would do best, surely?

Just my two cents..

In this particular question, I completely disagree with you, Donald.

The average user's opinion is worth just as much as an "expert", if you ask me. Sure, they won't be as good when it comes to the tech side, so perhaps a separate judging for that would be nice. On the other hands, they are all expers on gameplay. For me, gameplay has always been the most important factor in games, and still is. This is, after all, a 4k game competion - not a tech showcase. The gameplay has to play an important role here. If we just wanted to show off tech, then we could just as well have had a "4k application" contest instead (see 256b.com - they've pulled it off without the gaming).

I am an active member of GFXartist.com, submitting my not so good photographs, and I've seen the same thing over there. People disqualify themselves as judges, not placing critiques on artworks because they believe their opinions are less important. Similarly, artists disqualify people as judges because they are certain that their untrained art eyes give no better critiques than "monkeys doing random votes", as Donald put it. The artistic value is something that can and should be appreciated by anyone. Let's make sure that the winner of the contest is one that is popular with everyone, not just the judges.

Having said that, I'll clarify that judges are fine since there's no time for anything else - the last thing this contest needs is a repetition of last year (great games - poor planning). Let's give the judges simple scales to work with, and let's coordinate them.

Yes, technology typically does not do well in this contest.

Say.. what?
I get a lot of emails from people who actually PLAY THE GAME. I don't mean they just test it and think it's cute tech demo for 4kb; they actually play it as a game and like it. Most of them aren't even programmers themselves.

I'm not entirely sure why you felt the need to pick on my game, but please stop it.

(promised no more ranting, but have to apologize to marcus ...)


I did not intend to pick on your game, I apologize if that is how my post came across. To illustrate my point using my own submission, shooting evil ... drawRectangle aliens with hot ... drawLine laser beams wouldn't be the same, even if I still included physics and enemy ai (which I suppose fall under gameplay?) I greatly enjoy your game and I would rate your game's replay value a lot higher than that of my own submission (and most other submissions I have seen so far).

Wolfgang

"I'm a ****ing starship, I'm allowed to cheat!"
GCU Arbitrary, Culture Craft

To keep it simple why not let the judges give each game one score, but supply a little written comment. It would be nice I think, I'm not thinking about something complex at all. In fact any system will be nice, it seems hard to get any judges at all.

How about having more than just one rating system and one winner? You could declare an "Overall" winner for the best game, but then also allow winners for subcategories:
-Gameplay
-AI
-Graphics/Sound
-Technical Achievement

Also instead of either just using judges or just public votes, it could be a combination of both?

An overall winner is definitly necessary, but for a lot of folks, it might be cool, to put their game in their resume? There is no prize money, but if you apply for a job and can show off a "technical achievement award" for a game contest you entered, definitly makes employers be more interested.

Note: I always show off my games that I wrote during job applications and it's definitly getting people to listen. Even though, the job has nothing to do with gaming ...

how much time would it cost to judge, and within which timespan?

I'd be willing, if wanted and able.