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  JGO coinage tally  (Read 2903 times)
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Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Posted 2014-01-29 11:59:48 »

Back in the day, late 2009 to be exact, when I took over JGO from ChrisM in a poker game, I hosted JGO on a crappy little VPS that would seize operation upon sneezage. A lot has happened since then, including a pair of naughty hacks, but JGO now runs happily on the smallest Linode node money can buy, acompanied by their excellent backup service.

Back in early 2010 when I added AdSense, everything seemed to go well. Within three months I reached the payout threshold of about $100, and I was a happy overlord. Unfortunately, in spring 2010 some guy from Belgium (according to his IP) clicked ~20 times on the same ad. I reported this activity to Google, with the offending IP address, and they quickly responded by suspending my AdSense account, indefinitely... in case you're wondering, yes, it is still banned and yes, I contested their decision to no avail.

Quite a while later, somewhere around the summer of 2011, I added ads from Project Wonderful to JGO, hoping to at least cover my hosting bills. Well, that didn't happen, as Project Wonderful is an ad auction site that simply doesn't have the big shot advertisers and sheer volume that AdSense has. On the best days, I earn $0.50, but on average I earn about $5-8 / month through ads.

Last weekend, I decided to make a balance of the expenses and income of JGO. The result was rather sobering, but not completely unexpected. Anyway, you can take a peek at it here:
    http://www.java-gaming.org/content/finance (updated automatically each month)

Don't worry, I'm not desperate for money. The future of JGO is as sound as my mental state Smiley

There will however be an increased focus on finding avenues to bring in money to cover the hosting bills. There won't be javascript bitcoin miners (do these even exist!?), nor flashy-ads, pop-ups or pop-unders, nor other kinds of ads that will make your eyes bleed. There also won't be premium accounts, as I think it's wrong to squeeze money out of the very community that creates the site in the first place - without you guys JGO would be an empty shell. Last but not least, there won't be sponsored posts, nor tracking cookies, because I believe more in integrity, than in a positive balance. There will, however, be an increase in ways to plug the money drain, so to speak.

Upcoming changes will be in exposure campaigns, more specifically like ye ol' web-rings, where some value can be monetized, without selling out, and without interfering with the user experience at any level. I realize the above is rather vague, but that goes with the territory. It may feel a bit like hearing: 'less sugar, same taste!', which tends to be an unnerving statement, but that's better than finding out by yourself, and losing trust in whoever didn't tell you ahead of time.
Just like with (candy recipe) changes, you trust some company not to screw you over, and I hope you have the same trust in me.

So consider yourself thoroughly informed, albeit... with minimal information. Emo

As always, I'm open to suggestions and willing to discuss alternate ways to come up with enough money to break even. I won't even escort you to the padded room for calling me a money grabbing overlord, honestly.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
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Offline jonjava
« Reply #1 - Posted 2014-01-29 12:20:28 »

I have a suggestion. This isn't an original idea of mine, it's something I saw done at another website I regularly visit. It's not exactly a premium account although some might call it as such.

Basically it's a completely optional subscription based "plus" account for lack of a better term that I can think of. Well, not exactly subscription based. At the most basic level you pay, say, 3€ a month and get some sort special "+" sign in your signature. It's similar to Reddit Gold I suppose. Here's the link to the original system that I'm referring from http://www.teamliquid.net/plus/

Perhaps not to replace whatever you have planned but used in tandem so that those who choose to could op-out of these, well, whatever wonderful things you may have planned. I'm already using adBlock so this could be another way of showing support without gouging your eyes out without adBlock. I mean, it's like treating JGO to a coffee once every month. But most importantly, getting that delicious plus sign in your signature will obviously be the main attraction.

2cents

Offline Troubleshoots

JGO Knight


Medals: 36
Exp: 7-9 months


Damn maths.


« Reply #2 - Posted 2014-01-29 12:25:43 »

Slap Google on the wrist and tell them off.
Maybe you could get the $1112 back in another poker game..?

On a more serious note, how about allowing users to get their game advertised on JGO. More specifically, adding a banner at the bottom (or somewhere else) and allowing users to "bid" to get their game advertised there for a month. It probably won't make too much, but it could make something.

Why are all OpenGL tutorials written in Brainf**k?
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #3 - Posted 2014-01-29 12:27:49 »

On a more serious note, how about allowing users to get their game advertised on JGO. More specifically, adding a banner at the bottom (or somewhere else) and allowing users to "bid" to get their game advertised there for a month. It probably won't make too much, but it could make something.
Well, you can already do exactly that through Project Wonderful.
    http://www.java-gaming.org/content/ads

A few PMs were sent back and forth to people that wanted to plug their game for a few bucks, but in the end nobody did actually send money to my paypal account, and nobody used Project Wonderful as an intermediary, so I guess there is nobody here willing to invest in their games, except Puppygames, ofcourse.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline junkdog
« Reply #4 - Posted 2014-01-29 12:34:14 »

What about (also) using flattr as a means for bringing in some extra cash?

artemis-odb: bugfixing and performance optimized fork of artemis ECS
Offline Mike

JGO Wizard


Medals: 84
Projects: 1
Exp: 6 years


Java guru wanabee


« Reply #5 - Posted 2014-01-29 12:45:04 »

I'd pay 3 bucks a month to get a "Supporter of JGO" title Smiley Get another 9 guys like that and we're running even Wink

Mike

My current game, Minecraft meets Farmville and goes online Smiley
State of Fortune | Discussion thread @ JGO
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #6 - Posted 2014-01-29 12:49:46 »

I mean, it's like treating JGO to a coffee once every month. But most importantly, getting that delicious plus sign in your signature will obviously be the main attraction.
I really prefer to let everybody in the community use 100% of the 'service' for free. I also value the concept of everybody being equal. Using a monetary based way to create inequality among members is in my opinion the wrong way to go. It's unavoidable to treat people differently once they gave you money. I'd prefer to stay on the impartial side, if that is at all possible. Maybe i'll eat these words some day, though.


What about (also) using flattr as a means for bringing in some extra cash?
If Notch's old tumblr account, with millions of daily hits, with flttr couldn't bring in any money, JGO doesn't stand a chance. Flttr is a nice concept, but it lacks the backing of the masses.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #7 - Posted 2014-01-29 12:57:55 »

I'd pay 3 bucks a month to get a "Supporter of JGO" title Smiley Get another 9 guys like that and we're running even Wink
Well, except that there are these pesky (Paypal) fees (0.45 EUR for a 3.00 EUR txn) and tax.

In the end it's not so hard to break even on a monthly basis, if you get a few members to pay every month, but to break-even long term is another matter. Emo

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline nerb
« Reply #8 - Posted 2014-01-29 13:03:34 »

I'm not keen on the idea of subscriptions. I like more tight control of my money. Also don't forget that some users of this forum may not be in a position to enter into a subscription (i.e. perhaps users don't have their own credit card or source of finance etc.).

I do however like the idea of being able to provide a lump-sum donation. Perhaps you could provide us the option to do so? I've seen it done easily with PayPal on other sites & servers. I'd happily donate when I can, and I'm sure others would too. I don't think there necessarily needs to be any reward; although perhaps this would provide some incentive for more people to donate. It's a start anyway, and I don't think you have anything to lose by doing so?
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #9 - Posted 2014-01-29 13:14:59 »

Whether it's subscriptions or donations, I'm against feeding off the community, on this one. Given the size of this community (it's rather small) people would have to pay/donate rather much or often to make it amount to anything.

Meanwhile there are other, imho, better ways to finance the hosting costs.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Troubleshoots

JGO Knight


Medals: 36
Exp: 7-9 months


Damn maths.


« Reply #10 - Posted 2014-01-29 13:34:41 »

Whether it's subscriptions or donations, I'm against feeding off the community, on this one. Given the size of this community (it's rather small) people would have to pay/donate rather often to make it amount to anything.

Meanwhile there are other, imho, better ways to finance the hosting costs.
I don't think there are many options other than allowing the community to donate in one way or another. You wouldn't really be feeding off the community, since it'd be optional, however I think that giving someone who donates a displayable status isn't a good idea, for several reasons.

You should at least try it out; you'd probably get more donations than you think. After all, the community is really helpful, and some users may want to contribute to the hosting costs.

Why are all OpenGL tutorials written in Brainf**k?
Offline nerb
« Reply #11 - Posted 2014-01-29 13:43:40 »

^ What Troubleshoots said. I don't think anyone would consider it 'feeding off the community'. I just think that you should at least give us the option of doing so. Obviously you couldn't rely on it as the sole source of funding, so you'd still have to pursue other options. But it may supplement these 'other options'.
Offline jonjava
« Reply #12 - Posted 2014-01-29 13:54:56 »

Whether it's subscriptions or donations, I'm against feeding off the community, on this one. Given the size of this community (it's rather small) people would have to pay/donate rather much or often to make it amount to anything.

Meanwhile there are other, imho, better ways to finance the hosting costs.

Let's be realistic here. What do people who live off of ads sell? Think about youtube channels for instance. What do these channels sell to in order to get ad revenue from their videos? They sell their audience. This is true for all ads. You are selling the audience/visitors. In that sense, you're already feeding off of the community in a more straightforward way. You are selling us to the ads. This sounds crude but it's been the reality of marketing since day 1. It's nothing new.

The incredibly voluptuous incentive of "plus" icons in the signature was a joke by the way, it doesn't have to be visible at all. I just thought their video of it was pretty funny: http://www.youtube.com/embed/NAQ-dJAbPAc.

But I digress. In any case. Thinking you're feeding off of the community is simply flawed logic imo since that's already happening through ads. Quite unsuccessfully too it seems.

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #13 - Posted 2014-01-29 13:57:06 »

As if I don't realize I'm selling your brain-time to ad-publishers.
What I obviously meant was taking your money directly.

The difference is that people who click ads are mainly random visitors, that come in through google, and that people who'd donate would be the more valuable members.

It's not comparable, not even close.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline jonjava
« Reply #14 - Posted 2014-01-29 14:06:36 »

Sure. But is there really that much of a difference between the two?

There may be better, more indirect ways. Moreover my suggestion my not work at all. I'm just saying some people wouldn't mind it being an option in order to not see ads.

[edit] That may be, but then again - the ones exposed the most are the "more valuable" members as well, as you put it.

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #15 - Posted 2014-01-29 14:23:42 »

[edit] That may be, but then again - the ones exposed the most are the "more valuable" members as well, as you put it.
Regular members don't even notice the sidebar, while they would certainly notice themselves giving away money for nothing in return. So again, asking for money directly is 'way more' feeding off the community than selling brain-time of mostly non-members.


Anyway, I'd like to hear suggestions that doesn't involve the community paying me, as that has quite a few downsides, and would barely bring in any money, I suspect.


If you want to give money, please plug your game through Project Wonderful, and you'll get your ad showcased for at least a week at current auction rates. Pointing

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Mike

JGO Wizard


Medals: 84
Projects: 1
Exp: 6 years


Java guru wanabee


« Reply #16 - Posted 2014-01-29 14:28:24 »

I'd pay 3 bucks a month to get a "Supporter of JGO" title Smiley Get another 9 guys like that and we're running even Wink
Well, except that there are these pesky (Paypal) fees (0.45 EUR for a 3.00 EUR txn) and tax.

In the end it's not so hard to break even on a monthly basis, if you get a few members to pay every month, but to break-even long term is another matter. Emo



Mike

My current game, Minecraft meets Farmville and goes online Smiley
State of Fortune | Discussion thread @ JGO
Offline Troubleshoots

JGO Knight


Medals: 36
Exp: 7-9 months


Damn maths.


« Reply #17 - Posted 2014-01-29 14:33:32 »

Regular members don't even notice the sidebar, while they would certainly notice themselves giving a donation. So again, asking for money directly is 'way more' feeding off the community than selling brain-time of mostly non-members.

Anyway, I'd like to hear suggestions that doesn't involve the community paying me, as that has quite a few downsides, and would barely bring in any money, I suspect.

Put it to a poll and you will be able to see what the community thinks. The community is receiving a service - it's only fair on your behalf that we get the option to give something in return.

As for suggestions that don't involve donations from the community (and regular unregistered visitors I suspect), I don't think there are any options other than advertisement. You could add more advertisements, or find a different ad company which pays more.

Why are all OpenGL tutorials written in Brainf**k?
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #18 - Posted 2014-01-29 14:38:46 »


The community is receiving a service - it's only fair on your behalf that we get the option to give something in return.

See my earlier reply:
If you want to give money, please plug your game through Project Wonderful, and you'll get your ad showcased for at least a week at current auction rates. Pointing

Or... is giving money and getting something in return for it, not as sexy? Smiley

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Drenius
« Reply #19 - Posted 2014-01-29 15:11:25 »

Maybe a little bar somewhere on the site doing the same like PW but reserved for projects from this forum? ...
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #20 - Posted 2014-01-29 15:21:21 »

That would mean a lot of work, to reproduce existing functionality.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Phibedy

Senior Member


Medals: 8



« Reply #21 - Posted 2014-01-29 19:31:07 »

I would like to have the tittle "JGO Underlord". "JGO Overlorderer" would be awesome,too. But I am not sure yet  Grin
Home much do you get from "shameless plug". For example if I would pay 100 cent per day.
Maybe we will add our editor to the plug, but it's not yet finished. I would feel ashamed promoting alpha software in the shamepless plug   persecutioncomplex
Online Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 132
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #22 - Posted 2014-01-29 20:53:52 »

I remember back when the vault was open there were different colored dukes, so I was thinking maybe we could pay money to have themes (red duke+red theme, etc).
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #23 - Posted 2014-01-29 21:07:09 »

@Phibedy: An ad-auction works like this: your bid is 100ct for 24h. The bid of the second bidder is 15ct. Therefore you pay 16ct, for 24h. If you are outbid after 12h (somebody bids 101ct or more) then you spent 8ct for that period. Project Wonderful takes a 25% cut, so I get 6ct.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline RobinB

JGO Ninja


Medals: 44
Projects: 1
Exp: 3 years


Spacegame in progress


« Reply #24 - Posted 2014-01-29 21:09:42 »

[edit] That may be, but then again - the ones exposed the most are the "more valuable" members as well, as you put it.
Regular members don't even notice the sidebar, while they would certainly notice themselves giving away money for nothing in return. So again, asking for money directly is 'way more' feeding off the community than selling brain-time of mostly non-members.


Anyway, I'd like to hear suggestions that doesn't involve the community paying me, as that has quite a few downsides, and would barely bring in any money, I suspect.


If you want to give money, please plug your game through Project Wonderful, and you'll get your ad showcased for at least a week at current auction rates. Pointing

What im interested in is, what does it cost and what do i get?
The description at the moment is a little bit vague, something about 30ct and then losing airing time to someone else.
Could you give a estimate about how much airing time costs at the moment (average).
I like the idea, and i would certainly use it if i had any game finished Smiley
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #25 - Posted 2014-01-29 21:25:52 »

Currently it's in the $0.05-$0.15 range, so a few bucks go a long way. Pointing



Note that these numbers are the totals for 4 regions (USA, Canada, Europe, Elsewhere) so if the total for a specific ad is $0.20, that means you can most likely get the high bid for Europe at less than $0.10 / day

BTW: logged in members don't see the header/footer banners.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline saucymeatman
« Reply #26 - Posted 2014-01-29 23:29:30 »

You've got a army of programmers, put em to work. Most of us do it for free anyway.
Community projects? Donate-a-game? Allow the community to help make the site better in ways that you dont have time to?

What about contests with entry fees, maybe a 50/50 payout of whatever. I bet youd get alot of interest doing that. (Especially if you got notch to tweet a link to it).

I know most of that wont work. Just ideas.
Offline ctomni231

JGO Wizard


Medals: 99
Projects: 1
Exp: 7 years


Not a glitch. Just have a lil' pixelexia...


« Reply #27 - Posted 2014-01-30 00:24:08 »

You can... The best way I can think of is to brand donations along with PW. Most people have projects here that need that visibility. So a small percentage of it can go into a custom banner for advertising on the PW. I think just using the game thumbnail with "try this JGO game" might do exactly what you were planning for PW in the first place.

So long story short, make PW donation based. The more money you put in, the more ad space time you have. There are plenty of members who want to help shrink that burden. Making PW a perk with a generic banner if they don't make one will help in both respects hopefully.

Probably not going to generate record sales, but it might help.

Offline SimonH
« Reply #28 - Posted 2014-01-30 01:02:16 »

Yah, Adwords is evil. They stole £60 off me with 'no appeal'. I still don't know why...
I think a 'Donate' option would be a good idea. Nothing fancy, just an extra tab, but those of us who benefit from the wisdom herein and are doing well might think: 'Cool! Thanks, problem solved! Here's a little token of my appreciation.' and drop a fiver on the site. Why not? No-one gets hurt. Do they?  persecutioncomplex

People make games and games make people
Offline opiop65

JGO Kernel


Medals: 154
Projects: 7
Exp: 3 years


JumpButton Studios


« Reply #29 - Posted 2014-01-30 01:18:28 »

I personally don't think a whole ton of people here would be interested in advertising their games... Maybe it's just me, I don't know. Making games is fun, but I make them for myself and it really doesn't matter to me if I never receive any sort of recognition for that. Sure, it would be fun to have a bunch of people play my game. But to me it isn't worth it.

I would much rather donate (if you do go that route Riven, expect me to throw in some money as soon as I get my first debit card(woo!)), or like someone mentioned above, have a site wide contest with an entry fee. I love Ludum Dare, and I would sure love to go up against everyone here and try to see how well I would fare in a contest. That to me alone is worth money, and I think other people would agree.

Let people donate! This site is amazing and I would love to give back. If I had never discovered this site, I don't know where I would be in terms of programming, if I was at all. The knowledge I have gained definitely is worth money!

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