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  I still think the anti-spam measure is an issue..  (Read 3578 times)
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Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Posted 2011-07-11 02:36:44 »

The anti-spam Java question is still too intense, in my opinion. I come with a use case.
Quote
I couldn't get on to Java gaming. They ask a java question as part of their log in process that I couldn't answer yet. I found a few forums though.
This is after I told a friend to go to JGO to get answers to his Java questions. He's at the point where he asked me why his program doesn't run, with an error saying there is no main method. Anybody who is a complete newb cannot join the forum. Too inhibitive.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline static_flashlight

Senior Newbie




Software Engineer


« Reply #1 - Posted 2011-07-11 02:50:28 »

lol, you think it would be a pretty simple task if you had the tools available to solve each problem (a search engine and a java compiler).  However I could understand why some may be intimidated by such tasks when trying to enter a forum.
Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 355
Projects: 3
Exp: 5 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2011-07-11 04:59:49 »

Isn't that the point? They can't go into java gaming if they can't even write a main method Wink

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Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 835
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #3 - Posted 2011-07-11 07:34:59 »

The current activation page achieves the following things:
  • There hasn't been a single spam post in 6 months (so easy to get used to, but extremely annoying when it would be back)
  • It keeps out the people that are unable to follow the 'hello world' tutorials.

Maybe it's harsh, but it's exactly how I like it.

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Offline delt0r

JGO Knight


Medals: 27
Exp: 18 years


Computers can do that?


« Reply #4 - Posted 2011-07-11 09:16:24 »

I am kinda with Riven on this. We don't want every 15 year old who has decided to make millions on a minecraft clone coming and asking dumb questions all the time.

The conversations go something like this.

"Help me"
-"? help with what"
"writing java"
-"you mean to program"
"no i want to write a game"
-"well you start with a game loop or something like that"
"how, can you show me code"
--shows a pesudo code snipit.
"that doesn't work, what kinda game is that"

Time passes

"You hate helping people, why are you even here. I want help. I don't want to be told to use google or read a book"

I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.--Albert Einstein
Offline Dx4

Junior Devvie


Medals: 5



« Reply #5 - Posted 2011-07-11 09:18:39 »

I am kinda with Riven on this. We don't want every 15 year old who has decided to make millions on a minecraft clone coming and asking dumb questions all the time.

The conversations go something like this.

"Help me"
-"? help with what"
"writing java"
-"you mean to program"
"no i want to write a game"
-"well you start with a game loop or something like that"
"how, can you show me code"
--shows a pesudo code snipit.
"that doesn't work, what kinda game is that"

Time passes

"You hate helping people, why are you even here. I want help. I don't want to be told to use google or read a book"

whats wrong with 15 year olds? I'm 15
Offline delt0r

JGO Knight


Medals: 27
Exp: 18 years


Computers can do that?


« Reply #6 - Posted 2011-07-11 09:23:27 »

You are not *every* 15 year old. Sure anyone who wants to really learn, all good. But most just want a million dollar game to their name without any hard work. Or even fun work. Or fun hard work. whatever.

I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.--Albert Einstein
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 835
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #7 - Posted 2011-07-11 09:24:27 »

He meant 14 year olds.

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Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


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Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #8 - Posted 2011-07-11 13:06:59 »

Haha Smiley

+1 with Riven on this though. Keeps out the riff raff, for which there is gamedev.net.

Cas Smiley

Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 355
Projects: 3
Exp: 5 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2011-07-11 13:38:50 »

Believe it or not, I have seen 12 year olds!

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Offline jojoh

JGO Knight


Medals: 5
Projects: 7


games4j.com


« Reply #10 - Posted 2011-07-11 14:16:28 »

Haha Smiley

+1 with Riven on this though. Keeps out the riff raff, for which there is gamedev.net.

Cas Smiley

Hehe. If they get it wrong, it should just redirect to signup at gamedev.net Smiley

Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #11 - Posted 2011-07-11 20:57:13 »

Well, I guess I am overruled. Smiley

Yeah, he doesn't know how to run a main method, because he has only just started learning to program. But I could also see people with similar issues who come from very different language backgrounds - in many languages you can simply type code snippets into the command line and you're off and running. I think pretty much everyone more or less knows how to code in C-based languages so this probably isn't much of an issue, but still. I can think of types of people who don't fit your spammer/noob scenario but still might have trouble getting in. For example, somebody who is an experienced programmer but has never used Java, therefore doesn't know the best way to run a program. They would have to spend a reasonable amount of time Googling it and maybe getting an IDE to run the snippet, etc. Most people would likely be turned away.

I just think that, in games and forums and elsewhere, the less friction you have to entry the better.

See my work:
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Offline namrog84

JGO Ninja


Medals: 46
Projects: 4


Keep programming!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2011-07-11 21:49:13 »

Although I personally dont care what you guys do.  I think it wouldnt be a horrible thing to make the code a little easier to simply figure it out by looking at it. As currently its very difficult to do that.


Simply copying/pasting the entire questions individually into google.
1st response gives you answer for first

8th google post gives you the answer for the second question. (at least for me, its a thread discussing it on another forum)

Though they are both the exact same answer Tongue

And as some people discussed, Yes, some people may not know enough to run it in a java program. But technically isn't this a java gaming board, not an "intro java" board?  Gaming although people often want it to be, isn't necessarily the first thing you should be doing in programming.

And as delt0r pointed out.  I feel there would be a lot lot more people asking the same questions and often wanting a lot more then they are going to work for.  I have been programming now for over a year and I still continue to under-estimate things.

edit: there are also over 20,000 members? how many of those subscribed after the increased anti spam measure?


"Experience is what you get when you did not get what you wanted"
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 835
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #13 - Posted 2011-07-11 22:49:40 »

8th google post gives you the answer for the second question. (at least for me, its a thread discussing it on another forum)
Thanks for the heads up. I'm bruteforcing code snippets now Smiley

edit: there are also over 20,000 members? how many of those subscribed after the increased anti spam measure?
about 400 new members

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Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #14 - Posted 2011-07-11 23:03:36 »

about 400 new members
That's not too bad. Do you have any idea how many people fail the new account screen? I'd be interested to know. It also might be cool to have a link there if you fail a bunch of times, where you can post or email somebody or something.

I dunno, I just like having analytics.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 835
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #15 - Posted 2011-07-11 23:28:21 »

Do you have any idea how many people fail the new account screen?
about 400 of 12,600 registrations succeeded.

To give you an idea of how insane that is, in the same period there were 22,200 posts on JGO.

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Offline Ryonik

Senior Newbie


Medals: 1



« Reply #16 - Posted 2011-07-12 00:13:24 »

just signed up after looking around the forum. The code snippet wasn't hard to figure out. As simple as using notepad and command prompt. Took about a minute. The last line of the code snippet [ return a; ] gives it out as of what you should do.
I actually liked the mini-challenge, hah. Clueless
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 835
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #17 - Posted 2011-07-12 00:17:55 »

just signed up after looking around the forum. The code snippet wasn't hard to figure out. As simple as using notepad and command prompt. Took about a minute. The last line of the code snippet [ return a; ] gives it out as of what you should do.
I actually liked the mini-challenge, hah. Clueless
Thanks Smiley


I actually noticed quite an increase in spammer registrations in the last 6 weeks.

I just bruteforced all valid combinations (1301 out of 26^6) that result in the same answer (took >20min on my quadcore).

From now on a google query won't give you the answer anymore. Smiley

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 355
Projects: 3
Exp: 5 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #18 - Posted 2011-07-12 00:46:05 »

From now on a google query won't give you the answer anymore. Smiley
Unless by some chance you get the same code snippet as before Cheesy (unless you removed those combinations)

Offline Ryonik

Senior Newbie


Medals: 1



« Reply #19 - Posted 2011-07-12 01:09:43 »

From now on a google query won't give you the answer anymore. Smiley

Well I didn't actually think of referring to google.  Stare I started a test class, put the code snippet into a method. Started a main() method and called the other method from there and than printed it out on screen. Really simple  Undecided

So wait, you reinforced the verification page? the Answer shouldn't be the same though as people doing a "google query" could still try to plug in the answer from the old code snippet just for the heck of it. Making the new code snippet challenge kinda pointless...

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 835
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #20 - Posted 2011-07-12 01:13:39 »

From now on a google query won't give you the answer anymore. Smiley
So wait, you reinforced the verification page? the Answer shouldn't be the same though as people doing a "google query" could still try to plug in the answer from the old code snippet just for the heck of it. Making the new code snippet challenge kinda pointless...
How would they find the old snippet? Can you give me a query that still returns the answer or the old snippet?

Besides, when it really breaks, I can easily change the question, but I guess we'll be safe for a year or so.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Z-Man
« Reply #21 - Posted 2011-07-12 01:29:58 »

*raises hand* 15 here as well. I took a year of Java classes before coming here though Grin

I agree with Riven and everyone else who likes the current test system. Keeps spammers out, and keeps people who haven't even started to learn Java out. There are other Java forums (which aren't dedicated to gaming) that people can go and get help learning the language. I also agree that making a game probably isn't the first thing you should do when you are first learning to program.
Offline ReBirth
« Reply #22 - Posted 2011-07-12 01:59:24 »

I agree with that question things. Keep up.

Offline static_flashlight

Senior Newbie




Software Engineer


« Reply #23 - Posted 2011-07-12 02:06:02 »

I guess it is kinda nice to find a forum that has a fair balance to its user base.  Enough people that have active unique topics, but not enough to hear programming 101 questions.

Have you guy's really been having issues with automated breaches recently?
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 835
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #24 - Posted 2011-07-12 02:30:43 »

Have you guy's really been having issues with automated breaches recently?

SMF is a widely known piece of forum software, so yes, that pretty much guarantees a constant stream of attack. Not breaches though, unless your definition of a breach is that a spammer littered the forum with nonsense.

The last successful attack of JGO was about 6 months ago, and such an attack is now impossible, due to the lack of moderators and admins on this forum -- with the password of a moderator, you can take over the entire forum, execute code on the server, and what not... yay for SMF.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Ryonik

Senior Newbie


Medals: 1



« Reply #25 - Posted 2011-07-12 02:32:56 »

I guess it is kinda nice to find a forum that has a fair balance to its user base.  Enough people that have active unique topics, but not enough to hear programming 101 questions.

true, that's what got me into joining the forum. Seems like it has a small but big enough for my taste user base where the forum is not overwhelmed with topics. It's nice.

I remember back in my early mid teen yrs I was playing around with a C++ interpreted language game creation tool and I would visit the forums often enough to always find the same beginner questions being posted over and over again *facepalm*... gladly though a mod eventually started make a sticky of topics that answered questions that were asked frequently.
Offline namrog84

JGO Ninja


Medals: 46
Projects: 4


Keep programming!


« Reply #26 - Posted 2011-07-12 02:50:20 »

I guess it is kinda nice to find a forum that has a fair balance to its user base.  Enough people that have active unique topics, but not enough to hear programming 101 questions.

true, that's what got me into joining the forum. Seems like it has a small but big enough for my taste user base where the forum is not overwhelmed with topics. It's nice.

I remember back in my early mid teen yrs I was playing around with a C++ interpreted language game creation tool and I would visit the forums often enough to always find the same beginner questions being posted over and over again *facepalm*... gladly though a mod eventually started make a sticky of topics that answered questions that were asked frequently.


And yet even on those forums, people will still continue to ask the same question 100 times a year.
Especially with a forum littered with people who all have under 10 posts.

"Experience is what you get when you did not get what you wanted"
Offline Gudradain
« Reply #27 - Posted 2011-07-12 04:34:21 »

You should add a whining section where the people that can't answer the question can still cry Smiley. It will probably be filled with spam.

A tutorial to help newb to enter the forum would be great too?
Offline Swattkidd7

Junior Devvie





« Reply #28 - Posted 2011-07-12 10:00:38 »

Nice, Forum DRM lol jk but if it stops spam I believe it to be a good thing. Also just like everyone says, all it is doing is stopping the people whom are going to come in, ask how to make a game and then realize its not easy and leave.
Offline gouessej
« Reply #29 - Posted 2011-07-12 10:16:59 »

I also agree that making a game probably isn't the first thing you should do when you are first learning to program.
But this is exactly the first thing I did  Smiley

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