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  Gun violence in video games: Donald Trump meets with video game execs  (Read 4212 times)
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Offline CommanderKeith
« Posted 2018-03-08 22:55:40 »

Violence in video games, brought up again after that terrible Florida school attack.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns-trump/trump-meets-doom-maker-and-other-video-game-execs-idUSKCN1GK1DV

Quote
U.S. President Donald Trump met on Thursday with the makers of popular video games “Grand Theft Auto” and “Doom” to discuss what the president believes is a link between video games and violent acts like last month’s school shooting in Florida.

I like playing battlefield and other FPS's, but some are a bit graphic and horrible so maybe they need to restrict those games to stop kids playing them.

To outsiders, it does seem ridiculous how Americans will blame anything as the cause of gun violence except the widespread availability of guns. I couldn't believe it when I heard that they proposed arming teachers! I'm a teacher and couldn't imagine carrying a weapon into class. Absolute crazyness.



Offline FabulousFellini
« Reply #1 - Posted 2018-03-08 23:05:49 »

I read a funny meme about this (not really funny per say, but accurate) about how teachers dont get paid much, are stressed most of the time, have no budget to buy shit for their class and have to pay out of their own pocket, etc.   and now they should have guns.   My mom worked in public high school for 30 years as a learning disability/behavior disorder english teacher, and taught a lot of kids that had been in/have since went to jail.  You know what would happen the second my mom left her classroom?  That gun would be stolen.  Dumbest idea ever lol

-FabulousFellini
www.fabulousfellini.com
Offline CommanderKeith
« Reply #2 - Posted 2018-03-08 23:20:34 »

That's interesting. Sad that people with learning disabilities can end up resorting to crime.

I saw this recently, quite funny:

http://www.comedycentral.com.au/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart/videos/john-oliver-on-gun-control-in-the-us-vs-australia
https://vimeo.com/97417009

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Offline FabulousFellini
« Reply #3 - Posted 2018-03-08 23:30:50 »

To be fair I dont think the learning disability students would steal it, but the behavior disorder ones would.  Her learning disability students were mostly people that needed extra time to complete a test and stuff like that.   At the same time, she got slammed up against a brick wall while trying to break up a gang fight that ended up in her classroom...and that f**ked her arm up for life cuz the guy that slammed her was like 300 pounds

-FabulousFellini
www.fabulousfellini.com
Offline DarkCart

JGO Kernel


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It's all in the mind, y'know.


« Reply #4 - Posted 2018-03-09 00:46:34 »

Pretty sure at least one politician is legally REQUIRED to freak out about "VIDEO GAMES CORRUPTING THE YOUTH" every time one of these tragedies happens. Hell, they freaked out about DOOM back in the 90s after one of the Columbine shooters made a few WADs and had a few of the novels. It'll be interesting to see if this actually goes anywhere.

The darkest of carts.
Online elect

JGO Knight


Medals: 59



« Reply #5 - Posted 2018-03-09 08:05:41 »

Sooner or later also Usa will catch up with the rest of the world in terms of gun control, penal death, metric system, ecc

Being able for anyone to buy an assault rifle at a cheap price in a couple of minutes is simply silly and the fact that there are people discussing this, it's even more crazy

Look what happens to Europe and look what happens to Australia, since they banned guns

Some facts: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/21/17028930/gun-violence-us-statistics-charts

The gun violence in videogames is what we call, in italian, a "white rabbit", something you throw at the people to catch to keep them busy and avoid them thinking about what's the real problem is here
Offline VaTTeRGeR
« Reply #6 - Posted 2018-03-09 09:32:57 »

Quote
assault rifle
Good old assault rifle meme brought out again.


You would need to regulate all kinds of firearms, "scary" looking guns aren't more dangerous.

But maybe you should start with fixing everything around the education system first Roll Eyes

Quote
penal death, metric system
100% agree

Quote
maybe they need to restrict those games
Aren't they already age rated? Also parents are still a thing that exists, it's their responsibility first.
Offline jonjava
« Reply #7 - Posted 2018-03-09 10:17:56 »

something you throw at the people to catch to keep them busy and avoid them thinking about what's the real problem is here

What's the real problem?

Offline Roquen

JGO Kernel


Medals: 517



« Reply #8 - Posted 2018-03-09 10:35:42 »

Gun nuts won't like that meme...get all pedantic about "assault rifles" don't exist...it's "assault weapon" you chums.

If you want to do something about guns in the states, then the first couple steps are:
1) Limit power of lobbies by restricting contributions by any entity.
2) Reduce the need for money by changing how advertising for political office works.
Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


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« Reply #9 - Posted 2018-03-09 10:50:21 »

Then you also need to realise that feeding the gun lobby is gun culture. Gun culture absolutely, totally pervades every aspect of American life. The cops have guns and they tend to shoot first and ask questions later. There are guns in virtually every programme on TV. Nearly every single film coming out of Hollywood literally glorifies guns. Poster art is covered in guns. "Rap music"* orbits gun culture. Guns guns guns. Guns everywhere. Even the most trivially benign cartoons have guns in them!

Big ticket video games are still predominantly what we like to derisively describe as manshooters. Everyone has guns. The aim is to kill virtual people. Increasingly these look like real people and the guns behave and look like real guns and the situations look like real situations. The graphical, visceral, immersive nature of videogames is horrifying. (Just imagine it in VR now). It makes the passive consumption film gun imagery look like the inane scribblings of a 3 year old. Guns guns guns.

Guns ooze out of every foetid, rancid pore of American society. Every aspect of gun culture plays a small but crucial part. Bricks on their own don't make a wall but put enough of them together.

The worst part is that is, that is is being exported wholesale to every other country in the world. We have it particularly badly here in the UK because we share some common language. 40 years ago you would rarely ever see guns used in television dramas - which largely mirrored actual real life in the UK - they were a real event. Now they're as common as they are in the US media. We old folk don't like it at all, because the young 'uns are growing up thinking it is normal. This is how gun culture works. Surrounded by it, swimming in it, it pervades every aspect of normal until it is normal, despite being insane.

You might have noticed a lack of guns in our games. It's all virtual violence, using imaginary zap weapons, against monsters and robots. I really don't like guns in games any more. I used to, but I don't now. I see it for what it is: the subtle erosion of civilised values from our lives through constant imagery to normalise the genuine horror that guns bring.

Cas Smiley


* Yeah there's no better way to sound like an old fogey by saying "rap music" is there?

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Offline jonjava
« Reply #10 - Posted 2018-03-09 10:53:02 »

You're all talking as if restricting civilian access to guns will solve the problem. Without actually defining, stating or talking about the actual problem that you're supposedly trying to solve.

Online elect

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« Reply #11 - Posted 2018-03-09 10:57:17 »

What's the real problem?

Gun should be allowed only to police and special forces. Exceptions to civil throw a deep, long and expensive iter, including a psycho analysis.
Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


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« Reply #12 - Posted 2018-03-09 10:58:21 »

You're all talking as if restricting civilian access to guns will solve the problem. Without actually defining, stating or talking about the actual problem that you're supposedly trying to solve.
Is not the actual problem that actual people keep using actual guns to kill actual children en masse all the time?

Cas Smiley

Offline jonjava
« Reply #13 - Posted 2018-03-09 10:58:50 »

What's the real problem?

Gun should be allowed only to police and special forces. Exceptions to civil throw a deep, long and expensive iter, including a psycho analysis.

You didn't answer the question.

Offline jonjava
« Reply #14 - Posted 2018-03-09 11:03:48 »

You're all talking as if restricting civilian access to guns will solve the problem. Without actually defining, stating or talking about the actual problem that you're supposedly trying to solve.
Is not the actual problem that actual people keep using actual guns to kill actual children en masse all the time?

Cas Smiley

I'm not a fan of that sort of thing, to say the least.

But what makes you so sure that restricting civilian access to guns will solve the problem?

Have you made a detailed analysis? What will be the pro's and con's of attempting such a feat?

Will it be a net positive in the short term and in the long term?

Good intentions alone does not result into a positive outcome. It's much easier to break things than it is to fix things.

Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


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« Reply #15 - Posted 2018-03-09 11:06:18 »

Because it's worked in every other country that's done it. Apart from being common sense - if there are no guns, nobody can get shot.
The reason why Americans argue about this till they go blue in the face is because they are so immersed in it it is normal. Every other person in the world sees it as a no-brainer. Americans come up with insanely irrational ways to keep having more guns. It really makes us (the rest of the civilised world) facepalm just watching it unfold.

Cas Smiley

Online elect

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Medals: 59



« Reply #16 - Posted 2018-03-09 11:08:06 »

You didn't answer the question.

Actually I did, and it was clear from my very first post

The fact that you keep denying even just to recognize it, it's pretty self-explanatory
Offline jonjava
« Reply #17 - Posted 2018-03-09 11:09:49 »

You didn't answer the question.

Actually I did, and it was clear from my very first post

The fact that you keep denying even just recognizing it is pretty self-explanatory

Could you please try and re-articulate it in such a way that even a person like me would be able to understand it?

Online elect

JGO Knight


Medals: 59



« Reply #18 - Posted 2018-03-09 11:17:35 »

Could you please try and re-articulate it in such a way that even a person like me would be able to understand it?

Gun control.

Don't hide behind ignorance or my bad english
Offline jonjava
« Reply #19 - Posted 2018-03-09 11:21:59 »

Because it's worked in every other country that's done it. Apart from being common sense - if there are no guns, nobody can get shot.

To me that sounds like a Utopian fairy tale. If there is no cancer, nobody get's cancer. Do you see what I'm trying to say?

I think we can both agree that making all guns disappear from the entire world is practically impossible.

However, I see your point is perhaps that we could try and restrict access through legislative power, yes?

Perhaps make them illegal, even?

But couldn't that create an imbalance between criminals and civilians? Criminals would still be able to access guns.

I'd also like to bring up the American second amendment. Why do you think such a thing exist over there? What do you think the reasoning behind that amendment was? Is there any point to it at all? Or is it completely bogus? Or was it only relevant during that time? If so why was it relevant then? And why isn't it relevant now?

Offline jonjava
« Reply #20 - Posted 2018-03-09 11:23:28 »

Could you please try and re-articulate it in such a way that even a person like me would be able to understand it?

Gun control.

Don't hide behind ignorance or my bad english

How is gun control as such a problem? Can you be more specific?

Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


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« Reply #21 - Posted 2018-03-09 11:27:09 »

Ok, stop the thread now. Subtle warning before moderation.

Cas Smiley

Offline jonjava
« Reply #22 - Posted 2018-03-09 11:30:41 »

Ok, stop the thread now. Subtle warning before moderation.

Cas Smiley

Great idea. Let's not actually try and discuss ideas. Let's just vomit out our opinions, agree with each other and feel morally and intellectually superior to everyone else.


Offline princec

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« Reply #23 - Posted 2018-03-09 11:40:54 »

You are not open for discussion, which we can tell by your intellectual filibustering, you're just here to argue... it won't get you anywhere.

<edit> Actually, haha it's been so long since I had to invoke moderatorial power I can't even remember how to do it. Please continue to pay out the rope with which you wish to hang yourself in front of the community, I'll just watch for amusement.

Cas Smiley

Offline jonjava
« Reply #24 - Posted 2018-03-09 12:20:45 »

You are not open for discussion, which we can tell by your intellectual filibustering, you're just here to argue... it won't get you anywhere.

I don't think I'm not open for discussion, honestly.

I didn't come here to argue, I took the opportunity to discuss a complex issue, since it presented itself, in a community I'm familiar with. I'm quite interested in discussing ideas in general.

Filibustering is more accurate a term in speech and in situations where time is limited. I think you're reaching when using the term here. You're using it as a kind of smear instead of an accurate description.

If you think I'm here only to argue, then what are you here for? You certainly had a strong opinion on the subject matter. Are you not interested in discussing the subject or your opinion? Are you merely here to state your opinion and leave? Or do you come back to see if other people have agreed with your opinion and given you medals?

If you're so sure why I'm here for, then what are you here for, exactly?

<edit> <snip>Please continue to pay out the rope with which you wish to hang yourself in front of the community, I'll just watch for amusement.

Cas Smiley

I have a very high opinion of you and the way you've conducted yourself over the years in this community, Cas. And thus your opinion isn't trivial to me. Not at all.

But I'm not a fan of the last statement here at all. It's lazy, somewhat narcissistic and assumes a moral superiority where, to me, there isn't one, or at least not an obvious one.

There's a bunch of thing that I don't know, that's for sure. There's a bunch of things most people don't know. And I think trying to discussing ideas openly, and truthfully, is perhaps the only way for people to get better and know more stuff. Something like that.

Yeah yeah I like to be witty and smart when I can and win arguments, who doesn't, I'm definitely no saint - but just because that may be the case - regardless of the fact that I'm perhaps not as witty or smart as I think I am - doesn't obviously mean that discussing ideas openly with such people is inherently making things worse.

I truly believe, that trying to discuss ideas openly and truthfully is a good thing and a net positive - regardless of the contents of the discussions.

I think people can make up their own minds out of public discussions. I think people can detect for themselves when someone is arguing a good point badly, and when someone is arguing a bad point well. And when someone is arguing just for the sake of mental masturbation and all of those kinds of things.

Anyway, I do like these discussions and appreciate your patience and time~


Offline SteveSmith
« Reply #25 - Posted 2018-03-09 13:11:13 »

What's the real problem?

The real problem, as has been said, is that too many people are being shot and killed.  All this talk of "second amendment", making all guns disappear is impossible, freedom to carry arms, create an imbalance etc. etc.. is just deliberately clouding a simple issue, which is the usual tactic of those against the obviously solution of slowly removing guns as much as possible from society.

On the same subject, has anyone seen the propaganda Youtube video that the White House released yesterday, showing violent clips from video games?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C_IBSuXIoo  Obviously, if you do watch it, you will turn into a gun-crazed maniac, so be warned.

Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


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« Reply #26 - Posted 2018-03-09 13:11:39 »

TBH I am of a mind that we (Puppygames) should present a public facing stance on our feelings about guns, and it's one of solidarity with the rest of the world, and that is guns are bad. Just bad, end of story, there are absolutely no redeeming arguments or features of guns that will convince the rest of the world, Puppygames, or myself otherwise, nor bring back all the dead people, and that's our official line on it. And so honestly, there is no debate with me: I'm on the side of the right to live life without fear of random death from flying lead, not anachronistic amendments, nor business interests, nor even morality, and so it is with just about everyone else in the rest of the world.

Cas Smiley

Offline gouessej
« Reply #27 - Posted 2018-03-09 13:17:34 »

Hey

Gun should be allowed only to police and special forces. Exceptions to civil throw a deep, long and expensive iter, including a psycho analysis.
Personally, I think that nobody should be allowed to own a gun, even the police. I don't think that the world would be safer if everybody could own a gun. Policemen are allowed to keep their service pistols at home in some European countries and as far as I know, it has caused some tragedies. I have no figure, no formal evidence, sorry.

By the way, I don't think that sane people are influenced by violent video games and I don't think that video games drive people insane.

I spent some time in Los Angeles in 2012 and I disliked the sound of guns, I found that scary, I don't imagine to live with guns everywhere.

Julien Gouesse | Personal blog | Website | Jogamp
Offline VaTTeRGeR
« Reply #28 - Posted 2018-03-09 13:52:03 »

Replace the word "guns" with "drugs" and you can have the same discussion.

Violence, death and misery aren't caused by drugs or by guns but by the underlying issues like poverty, unemployment, bad education and whatnot that bring people to the point where they misuse the items at their disposal. That doesn't mean that you should just ditch all regulations, they exist to allow people to live together without constant threat of accidents and conflicts arising.

@jonjava Do you really think gun possession and use should be fully unconditional? What about cars, should there be no regulations? Dangerous chemicals?
A society needs some rules to make living together without constant threat of accidents and misuse happening possible, i know a few people that i wouldn't trust with literally anything that could be dangerous to others.

@princec There are recreational and professional uses for guns in the possession of civilians, like hunting, self defense and competetive target shooting, i sure wouldn't want every random person to be able to just go out and stock up on firepower without any checks, but guns are part of this time period and of the american culture (gun lobby or not), especially in less densely populated regions. I think the problems with american gun law surface where there are many people living in tight spaces aka cities, guns have no productive use and place there, it's the same story with Europe, densely populated, so you NEED tightly regulated gun possession/use there.

@ gouessej That's really naive, the world would also be better without atom bombs and poison gas and and and. These things exist, they were bound to be invented because humans always strive for more and now you can't un-invent them or take them away easily. I agree that more guns don't create more safety though, that's total gun nuttery.

Quote
it has caused some tragedies
Do you think these tragedies were caused by the piece of metal or by the person misusing it? Do you think an abusive husband wouldn't have started beating his wive if you took away his baseball bat beforehand?
Offline PaulReeves

Junior Devvie


Medals: 3



« Reply #29 - Posted 2018-03-09 13:56:11 »

It is an interesting topic I personally don't mind sensible gun ownership but that is because I grew up a house where my dad used to occasionally shoot shot guns for a hobby.

The UK seems to strike the reasonable balance. Generally people don't own guns. And based on decade out of date knowledge (so probably wrong) if you wanted to store a gun at home you would need a license with a doctor sign off on good mental health and you had to store the gun and ammo separately in locked cabinets with a police inspection that said cabinets exist. Pretty much kids don't get easy access to these lethal items.

This means outside of pest control and sports usages people don't own gun plus the type of gun you can own is very limited. Tighter gun controls would help fix the problem in the US. I think the general trend in the US is less people own gun although those that do tend to own an increasing number so at some point the tide will turn and restrictions will appear.

I found the pervasive use of guns in media an interesting point. Not something I had really considered before as a way to normalise guns.
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