Java-Gaming.org Hi !
Featured games (91)
games approved by the League of Dukes
Games in Showcase (804)
Games in Android Showcase (239)
games submitted by our members
Games in WIP (868)
games currently in development
News: Read the Java Gaming Resources, or peek at the official Java tutorials
 
    Home     Help   Search   Login   Register   
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  ignore  |  Print  
  Gosh, it's quiet in here  (Read 48874 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline Icecore
« Reply #30 - Posted 2017-11-05 22:54:05 »

I'll prepare a database dump 'soon' (this week) and we'll see who is willing to make a JGO clone worthy and capable of replacing the current forum. If it's any good, I'll seriously discard SMF and roll out whatever is ready to replace it.
I have very low experience with Web framework's
But from what I know: trying direct DB Copy(dump) from one framework to another is nightmare.

Alternative solution, because its WEB – someone can write simple parser(Scrapier, scrambler) for html version of forum)
And dump all data from Front-End side ^^

+ if needed compatibility with current version – for every post, topic
can also be dumped Extra info post / topic id
gosh-it-s-quiet-in-here/38470/msg/367159/view/topicseen.html

I think it's less painful than trying integrate current DB to new framework

Last known State: Reassembled in Cyberspace
End Transmission....
..
.
Journey began Now)
Offline philfrei
« Reply #31 - Posted 2017-11-05 23:24:36 »

Yep. Count me as one of the "inexperienced" that is willing to volunteer time. But I would make a distinction between lack of a particular technical expertise with the ability to get in there, learn what is needed and accomplish something. I didn't know scratch about digital audio when I first joined this site.

Having a database dump is a necessary and helpful step. Will it be something that can be done iteratively? In other words, if you do a dump on Jan 1, 2018 and it takes until March 1 to get all the migration steps in place and ready to go, can another dump be done on March 2?

20 active members + what...250? 500? 1000? "guests" checking things out every day?
Goal would be, in part, to flip more of the "guests" into active membership. Seems like Java-gaming.org site could also be a useful meeting/marketing place for game makers, tutors, those providing libraries, others.

What are possible new platforms to consider?

music and music apps: http://adonax.com
Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 1146
Projects: 3
Exp: 20 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #32 - Posted 2017-11-05 23:31:57 »

I would simply archive the current forum and freeze it in time.

Then create a completely brand new forum, using some probably better software, from scratch, and stick some links to the old forums in there. Migrate just the users over. Job done.
And then fix all the crap with emails and registrations and so on which are surely an impediment.

Cas Smiley

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Riven
Administrator

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 1371
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #33 - Posted 2017-11-05 23:53:03 »

That has never been done before, for good reason Wink

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings!
Offline jonjava
« Reply #34 - Posted 2017-11-06 00:15:46 »

But it fell flat partly because Riven wouldn't play ball IIRC
There was nothing properly suggested, just 2 or 3 forum-posts of devs that were willing and lacked relevant experience - in the mean time, I had (and still have) an extraordinary tiny amount of spare time, even my evenings and weekends are swallowed up. It's easy to suggest you're willing to take up the task, it's very hard to actually finish a project to the state it's ready for 'production'. Not just for the small group of inexperienced volunteers, but also for me.

As I recall, and I may have some of the details wrong, you weren't willing to accept any help let alone entertain the possibility. It seemed to me like you were using the idea to some degree as an excuse or opportunity to learning modern web development with aspects of it masquerading as some kind of heroic altruism. Not at all a serious or competent consideration in my estimation.

And to imply that suggestions or expertise was lacking is quite presumptuous given that you weren't listening and, at least at the time, your own understanding of modern web development was quite self evidently - in my opinion - somewhat bankrupt.

To suggest you're the only one without a lot free time then, now or otherwise is at the very least misguided.

Offline dime26

JGO Wizard


Medals: 90
Projects: 7
Exp: 12 years


Should traffic wardens be armed?


« Reply #35 - Posted 2017-11-06 00:24:39 »

You mention its quiet and everyone pops their head up to say hello!

I log on every few days to check out what is new, I use the "Recent Posts" rather than checking the dates on the forums view (The first few boxes).

I tend to use the "What I did today" post and share my recent work.

If you were going to change any features / design of the website I would personally simplify it and remove some content and concentrate on what is being used / visited.

Anyways I hope the community lives on, I have enjoyed using the website for sometime. Cheesy   
Offline Riven
Administrator

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 1371
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #36 - Posted 2017-11-06 01:07:16 »

Ah, the gloves just came off...

To suggest you're the only one without a lot free time then, now or otherwise is at the very least misguided.
jonjava, I'm wondering where you got that - you may want to reread my earlier replies, because I never even hinted at that.


As I recall, and I may have some of the details wrong, you weren't willing to accept any help let alone entertain the possibility. It seemed to me like you were using the idea to some degree as an excuse or opportunity to learning modern web development with aspects of it masquerading as some kind of heroic altruism. Not at all a serious or competent consideration in my estimation.

And to imply that suggestions or expertise was lacking is quite presumptuous given that you weren't listening and, at least at the time, your own understanding of modern web development was quite self evidently - in my opinion - somewhat bankrupt.
The rest of your response equally reads like a surreal plot twist, not sure where all the anger is coming from... me using JGO to learn modern web-dev for selfish reasons? You've gotta be kidding. If you have criticism, fine, share it, and I might identify with it, and try to improve my ways, I'm far from perfect, and we all know that, but this is just silly.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings!
Offline Opiop
« Reply #37 - Posted 2017-11-06 01:23:51 »

Quote from: jonjava
~ snip ~

This is a little excessive, don't you think?
Offline jonjava
« Reply #38 - Posted 2017-11-06 01:39:34 »

jonjava, I'm wondering where you got that - you may want to reread my earlier replies, because I never even hinted at that.
You did bring it up so it's not a completely unreasonable interpretation. I mean obviously people are generally quite busy.

The rest of your response equally reads like a surreal plot twist,

A plot twist? Of what? A plot twist implies a trajectory that unexpectedly deviates or something like that - I don't particularly understand how a plot twist applies.

not sure where all the anger is coming from... me using JGO to learn modern web-dev for selfish reasons? You've gotta be kidding. If you have criticism, fine, share it, and I might identify with it, and try to improve my ways, I'm far from perfect, and we all know that, but this is just silly.

Well, I'm not being angry.

I'm just trying to be clear and honest. And truth is a sword that hurts but it's not anger. And I'm not saying that what I'm saying is the truth - it's just my impression of the situation based on old, most certainly somewhat partial, memories.

Obviously nobody is perfect and everyone makes mistakes, myself included.

Perhaps we have an archived link on the topic? Although I'm not really that interested in sorting through old comments.

But I think your comment of the situation wasn't exactly accurate.

Offline jonjava
« Reply #39 - Posted 2017-11-06 01:46:31 »

Quote from: jonjava
~ snip ~

This is a little excessive, don't you think?

I'm really not trying to be dishonest. So it's not excessive apart from perhaps the speculation. But that's the honest impression I had of the situation whenever it was a year or two ago.

The fact is that it went nowhere and that's probably a good thing since it's not like that would've obviously improved things anyway, probably just made things worse.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline abcdef
« Reply #40 - Posted 2017-11-06 06:38:21 »

@Riven - Have you basically given up with this site? You sound pretty negative about the decline of the site and in forums in general.


The idea of an archive and start again approach sounds like a good one, very little work required but you can fix the a lot of the negatives about this site. You were once up for taking over java4k so you must still have an interest in java gaming.
Offline SHC
« Reply #41 - Posted 2017-11-06 06:49:00 »

I definitely want to try it out @Riven, that would be something I'm really willing to do. However I can't say an expected date or so, this is experimentation and I'm going to start in a month after my exams. Will you please PM me with a link to the database dump you said earlier?

The idea of the freezing up of the current forum as an archive is pretty simple that it is the first one that came to my mind, and especially as I've witnessed it on the GameDev.net community, it went completely smooth and I like it. However from some previous messages, I understand @Riven is not interested in this, he wants a completely migrated community and also be happy with the links.

In this way, my guess is that we have to first start tinkering with a modern PHP system (I'm looking at Flarum) and then spend some time analyzing how it stores the posts in the database. I had worked with PHP and MySQL in the past (but not a forum software though, nor I had written any mods for SMF) and I think a bit of looking into should get us something. My guess is that this approach works, but in the longer end.

  • Start with analyzing the database table structures.
  • Write scripts to automate the process.
  • At each iteration, test and improvise the script.

If you permit, I'd like to take the dump you're going to provide, and create a repo on GitHub and commit this dump into it. Our tool should be able to take a basic site of Flarum and modify the database after reading all the posts and the users. What do you think?

And we could always take the help of experienced and willing to contribute members like @philfrei.

By the way, I opened a support ticket in the Flarum forums: https://discuss.flarum.org/d/7290-migration-for-a-very-large-smf-forum

Offline Riven
Administrator

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 1371
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #42 - Posted 2017-11-06 07:24:47 »

The JGO database dump will be publicly available - it is the community's data after all. Besides the IP-addresses, emailaddresses and private messages, everything in the dump could (in theory) be retrieved with a scraper.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings!
Offline SHC
« Reply #43 - Posted 2017-11-06 08:05:33 »

Where? I'm hosting the backups that you are providing everyday with cron jobs at https://jgorecovery.goharsha.com but aren't they encrypted?

Offline Riven
Administrator

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 1371
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #44 - Posted 2017-11-06 08:18:55 »

Emphasis on will be. Smiley

Quote
... I'll prepare a database dump 'soon' (this week) ...

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings!
Offline elect

JGO Knight


Medals: 76



« Reply #45 - Posted 2017-11-06 08:23:16 »

I would simply archive the current forum and freeze it in time.

Then create a completely brand new forum, using some probably better software, from scratch, and stick some links to the old forums in there. Migrate just the users over. Job done.
And then fix all the crap with emails and registrations and so on which are surely an impediment.

Cas Smiley

I think that given the actual conditions, this remains the best choice we have. I wanted to upgrade the forum also for the jogl community, but all my attempts got stranded..

I really wouldn't like jgo to slowly die.. so freeze smf, make it read only and start from scratch with Discourse..

I remember that you could turn it up in few minutes and few commands, I once tried with Digital Ocean and Discourse and I was a total newbie

Today it looks even easier, since they made Discourse available as an Application


I'm convinced that the forum appearence plays an important role in attracting new people and talents
Offline Zeldar
« Reply #46 - Posted 2017-11-06 08:33:13 »

I must keep my AWESOME medals/posts ratio so no more messages if my post isn't life changing  Angry Angry Angry

other than that, got big life changes and I didn't have time and motivation to do things, but now I'm back Cool (said the guy that nobody knows persecutioncomplex )
Offline dime26

JGO Wizard


Medals: 90
Projects: 7
Exp: 12 years


Should traffic wardens be armed?


« Reply #47 - Posted 2017-11-06 12:47:35 »

Where? I'm hosting the backups that you are providing everyday with cron jobs at https://jgorecovery.goharsha.com but aren't they encrypted?

Is it possible to get the key for the dump so I can take a look at the data, I would not mind having a go and creating an archive viewer.

I assume this is a relational database, might be a nice project to migrate it to some thing like MongoDB (or any no sql/ document store) and create a simple front end for it.
Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 1146
Projects: 3
Exp: 20 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #48 - Posted 2017-11-06 13:02:24 »

Seriously, forget the data. It's there, it can be left where it is, it's not going anywhere. The problem is that there's not much new stuff coming in, not the availability of the old stuff.

What's the Bestest Forum Software out there?

Cas Smiley

Offline dime26

JGO Wizard


Medals: 90
Projects: 7
Exp: 12 years


Should traffic wardens be armed?


« Reply #49 - Posted 2017-11-06 14:54:59 »

Had a quick look, these seems to be popular or new

Forums
discourse.org
PHPBB
flarum.org

I am in a few other communities that use other tools like Slack rather than the traditional forum

Chat / Communities
slack.com
Microsoft Teams
Workplace by Facebook
Reddit
Discord

Maybe a mix of the two could work, a place to chat / share etc with a tool like chat and a forum for the questions, articles etc. Maybe there could a few sections to the website:

Articles
Forum
Chat / Communitaction

I mean people come here to read info on coding, they come to ask questions and also post in the "what I did today" is more of a chat room where you can share things.

Just some thoughts.

** Edit

To help bring people to the site maybe a list of games made by people on here at https://itch.io could be tagged with JGO etc.

Online VaTTeRGeR
« Reply #50 - Posted 2017-11-06 14:56:42 »

Quote
forget the data. It's there, it can be left where it is
A forum without any existing topics is a big turnoff for new users though, it makes them assume that the board is still-born/dead.
(I would never register somewhere, where there are only a handful of topics floating around, which is what this board is going to look like after a big reset without copying old topics. Also there aren't huge amounts of users left, which makes getting new posts to fill the board even harder)

It needs to look alive from the get go, having old or lets say existing content integrated where it makes sense helps with that.

I'm not arguing against what you're trying to say though, just focusing on copying the old board over to a new software is definitely not gonna make the community live up again, there needs to be something to attract new gamedevs.

Maybe some kind of Rating/Review System coupled with game of the month/year/whatever awards to motivate ppl to make and show off their projects?
http://www.runthinkshootlive.com/ has this and it's pretty good, it creates a motivation for mappers/devs to create and upload their mods there, it's success is also because of his YT-channel though, so i don't know if it's worth it.

Just making a newer and better JGO could lead to something akin to the ZM2 release... The previous version 1.21 still had some full servers (~20 to 60 users) every night and the release of Version 2.0 split the community and killed the game after a few days/weeks, even though it was technically better. There wasn't a big enough influx of new users (not enough advertising) at the launch of Version 2.0 and poof dead, zero players. At least that's how i remember it.
Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 1146
Projects: 3
Exp: 20 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #51 - Posted 2017-11-06 15:29:25 »

Old users going to java-gaming.org will simply find themselves automatically migrated to forum 2.0 and it'll be no less dead than it ever was. We can have links back to the read-only version of the old forum as stickies or customised pages if necessary.

It won't be any more or less dead than it is now. The difference is we'll be able to read it on mobile devices and newcomers might not be quite so thoroughly discouraged from turning up if the registration process is relaxed and improved somewhat.

I dunno what Slack brings to the table, AFAIK it's just electrons in the wind isn't it? Ephemeral warbling lost forever with little by way of useful organisation.

Cas Smiley

Offline elect

JGO Knight


Medals: 76



« Reply #52 - Posted 2017-11-06 15:53:25 »

What's the Bestest Forum Software out there?

Discourse, I just say it comes from the same guys beyond stackOverflow
Offline nsigma
« Reply #53 - Posted 2017-11-06 18:21:13 »

I dunno what Slack brings to the table, AFAIK it's just electrons in the wind isn't it? Ephemeral warbling lost forever with little by way of useful organisation.

Yes, I'm a member of a number of communities that use Slack, and it's tolerably annoying at best.  Organisation is a bit better than it once was, but the key annoyance is that the free version isn't that useful, and the paid version is really expensive.  A moderately large community soon loses access to conversations, in the space of a few months.  One of the best things about JGO is the publicly searchable archive of stuff that's still really useful years later!

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for (live) creative coding
Offline dime26

JGO Wizard


Medals: 90
Projects: 7
Exp: 12 years


Should traffic wardens be armed?


« Reply #54 - Posted 2017-11-06 23:00:43 »

What ever the future would like to see the site live on, always look forward to reading through all the new posts. Not so bothered about viewing the site on my mobile but I guess its 2017 after all.

Offline KevinWorkman

« JGO Plugged Duke »


Medals: 288
Projects: 12
Exp: 12 years


HappyCoding.io - Coding Tutorials!


« Reply #55 - Posted 2017-11-07 03:51:44 »

I could put together a Discourse instance this week if people are interested in the "fresh start" approach.

Another great thing about Discourse is that it supports user moderation, so the people in this thread who want to be more involved could be.

But I also pretty much agree with a lot of what Riven said: this stuff takes more than just promising time. It takes knowing what to do, coming up with a plan, and then executing that plan. Saying "I have time if you just tell me what to do" isn't very helpful, because the hard part is figuring out what to do in the first place.

HappyCoding.io - Coding Tutorials!
Happy Coding forum - Come say hello!
Offline philfrei
« Reply #56 - Posted 2017-11-07 04:07:01 »

I forget to mention that most of my professional programming life has been spent with databases. OK, its mostly MS Access but with a lot of VBA behind the scenes and some web-apps interfacing through Microsoft-world servers and such, but also SQLServer and installation and dabbling with MySQL. I am comfortable working with relational database structures. I have migrated data on multiple occasions.

When I ask to for direction, it doesn't mean "tell me what to do". It was meant more as "point me in the direction of a problem or issue or task to be solved." I'm capable of researching and getting up to speed on issues. I just want to make sure I'm interfacing with something useful.

I'm looking forward to perusing the data dump.
I'm looking forward to checking out the various proposed forum targets.

I vote "nay" on Slack.

music and music apps: http://adonax.com
Offline KevinWorkman

« JGO Plugged Duke »


Medals: 288
Projects: 12
Exp: 12 years


HappyCoding.io - Coding Tutorials!


« Reply #57 - Posted 2017-11-07 04:22:23 »

It's also worth noting that Discource provides a script for migrating from a SMF forum: https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-to-discourse-from-another-forum-software/16616

HappyCoding.io - Coding Tutorials!
Happy Coding forum - Come say hello!
Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 508
Projects: 3
Exp: 5 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #58 - Posted 2017-11-07 09:37:52 »

That migration script might be the best thing we have to move to a saner forum. I can definitely vouch for Discourse, it's fantastic forum software.

Offline abcdef
« Reply #59 - Posted 2017-11-07 13:49:03 »

Riven - what's the best way to go about doing this? You of course have access to the back end of jgo, how would one go about hosting a discourse instance? Someone would need permission to do this or would you prefer to trial run it on another host that one of us own ?
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  ignore  |  Print  
 
 

 
Riven (579 views)
2019-09-04 15:33:17

hadezbladez (5501 views)
2018-11-16 13:46:03

hadezbladez (2398 views)
2018-11-16 13:41:33

hadezbladez (5761 views)
2018-11-16 13:35:35

hadezbladez (1220 views)
2018-11-16 13:32:03

EgonOlsen (4660 views)
2018-06-10 19:43:48

EgonOlsen (5681 views)
2018-06-10 19:43:44

EgonOlsen (3196 views)
2018-06-10 19:43:20

DesertCoockie (4094 views)
2018-05-13 18:23:11

nelsongames (5113 views)
2018-04-24 18:15:36
A NON-ideal modular configuration for Eclipse with JavaFX
by philfrei
2019-12-19 19:35:12

Java Gaming Resources
by philfrei
2019-05-14 16:15:13

Deployment and Packaging
by philfrei
2019-05-08 15:15:36

Deployment and Packaging
by philfrei
2019-05-08 15:13:34

Deployment and Packaging
by philfrei
2019-02-17 20:25:53

Deployment and Packaging
by mudlee
2018-08-22 18:09:50

Java Gaming Resources
by gouessej
2018-08-22 08:19:41

Deployment and Packaging
by gouessej
2018-08-22 08:04:08
java-gaming.org is not responsible for the content posted by its members, including references to external websites, and other references that may or may not have a relation with our primarily gaming and game production oriented community. inquiries and complaints can be sent via email to the info‑account of the company managing the website of java‑gaming.org
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Managed by Enhanced Four Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!