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  Flash, Java, or both  (Read 6630 times)
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Offline MindOfCorruption97

Senior Newbie





« Posted 2012-06-25 07:31:16 »

 Hello, my name is MindofCorruption97 and I would like to ask a question. Depending on both programs (Flash AS3 and Java) which ones better suited for game developing. Also, is it possible to add a Flash game onto a java JFrame and somehow combine the two codes together in some way?

Chaos is Beatiful...
For without Chaos the world will never spin...
Offline ReBirth
« Reply #1 - Posted 2012-06-25 07:49:06 »

Combine them seems impossible. Furthermore flash are being left now to html5.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 339
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #2 - Posted 2012-06-25 09:36:27 »

What platforms are you developing for?

Cas Smiley

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline MindOfCorruption97

Senior Newbie





« Reply #3 - Posted 2012-06-25 18:03:50 »

Well I'm currently using java, but was just curious about flash.

Chaos is Beatiful...
For without Chaos the world will never spin...
Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

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Medals: 128
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #4 - Posted 2012-06-25 18:35:51 »

Flash is...not good. It's unsupported and slow. The only advantage is that you can pick it up very quickly.

Also, you can't ask Flash questions or post Flash games on JGO Grin
Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

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★★★★★


« Reply #5 - Posted 2012-06-25 19:01:10 »

For desktop games Java is probably a better choice with its powerful JVM, solid built-in API's and access to low level API's like OpenGL.

Flash on the other hand excels at web games especially for the casual market. Its also much easier to monetise Flash using web ads, sell to web portals, etc. It also has a pretty solid toolset which is easier to pick up for none programmers and artists.

Really depends on the type of games you want to make and audience you are targeting.
Offline Sickan

Senior Member


Medals: 8



« Reply #6 - Posted 2012-06-25 19:20:24 »

HTML5 would be much, much better to learn seeing as it's on the rise.
Offline Dream Of Sleeping
« Reply #7 - Posted 2012-06-25 19:49:40 »

Is it possible to develop in flash without paying a lot of money on software? I was going to give it a go. I got a book on it and everything, but even the open source software was like £400. I'm still not sure if I am missing something.


Offline Sickan

Senior Member


Medals: 8



« Reply #8 - Posted 2012-06-25 19:56:05 »

Is it possible to develop in flash without paying a lot of money on software? I was going to give it a go. I got a book on it and everything, but even the open source software was like £400. I'm still not sure if I am missing something.
Open Source software for £400?  Huh

Anyway, you should look for ActionScript as that's what you use to develop the game part of Flash games.
Offline gouessej
« Reply #9 - Posted 2012-06-25 20:10:24 »

HTML5 would be much, much better to learn seeing as it's on the rise.
Maybe it is on the rise but the performance is still very bad except with Chrome 19 and Chromium 18 on all machines I tested. It is not mature enough.

MindOfCorruption97, Flash is working worse than before under GNU Linux and will be discontinued on mobiles. What not going on using Java?

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 128
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #10 - Posted 2012-06-26 04:19:16 »

HTML5 would be much, much better to learn seeing as it's on the rise.
Maybe it is on the rise but the performance is still very bad except with Chrome 19 and Chromium 18 on all machines I tested. It is not mature enough.

MindOfCorruption97, Flash is working worse than before under GNU Linux and will be discontinued on mobiles. What not going on using Java?
You have to remember how crappy Java was in the beginning, although I didn't personally experience it. It was slow, kind of like HTML5. But now it's pretty good. I think HTML5 will get better over time, especially since it's getting popular.
Offline tberthel
« Reply #11 - Posted 2012-06-26 07:23:58 »

PlayN and AllBinary Platform kinda have Flash support via java.

My support is J2ME/BB, Android, J2SE, HTML5, Flash, and eventually Native via a subset of Java.

While PlayN has Android, J2SE, HTML5, Flash, and promised IOs support.

So not only is it possible it has already happened, but I have not released all my stuff and PlayN is a lower level framework.

Offline davedes
« Reply #12 - Posted 2012-06-26 07:36:16 »

Simple breakdown, IMO:

Use Java if:
- You are targeting desktop
- You want to learn OpenGL/GLSL
- You want better hardware acceleration
- You want a solution that will likely still be relevant 5+ years down the road
- You don't own Flash Pro
- You are targeting mobile web browsers through HTML5 (i.e. using LibGDX or GWT)
- You are targeting Android (i.e. LibGDX)

Use AS3/Flash Pro if:
- You want a visual environment integrated with your game, i.e. for graphics and such
- You want a simple all-in-one platform for making/distributing 2D games
- Your game is vector-heavy
- You are targeting a casual market
- You are targeting web users, or you hope to monetize through web portals
- You are targeting iOS or Windows Phone

Flash is pretty good but it's slowly being replaced by HTML5. This will take a few years at least, so you can still make some money off it in the mean time.

PlayN is also another cool option, haven't tried it with Flash.

Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #13 - Posted 2012-06-26 10:06:05 »

HTML5 would be much, much better to learn seeing as it's on the rise.

Can we at JGO, clever chaps that we are, at least not contribute to the propagation of the lie?

Javascript, or whatever framework you use to generate the javascript from a far cleaner base language. But still - its javascript. HTML 5 is just a markup language with some additional tags which just happen to be useful for creating games using Javascript.
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 339
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #14 - Posted 2012-06-26 10:33:16 »

Ok, pedant Smiley Maybe "HTML5" is de facto referred to now to encompass the whole gamut of required technologies - Javascript and HTML5 and several of the Javscript APIs supported by all the browsers.

Cas Smiley

Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #15 - Posted 2012-06-26 11:54:44 »

True, I am a pedantic ahole. But even I have a place in society Wink
Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #16 - Posted 2012-06-26 13:24:12 »

Is it possible to develop in flash without paying a lot of money on software? I was going to give it a go. I got a book on it and everything, but even the open source software was like £400. I'm still not sure if I am missing something.

http://www.flashdevelop.org/

Doesn't give you the visual editor that comes with Adobe but you it support ActionScript and can create .swf files.

Offline Cero
« Reply #17 - Posted 2012-06-26 17:32:21 »

HTML5 would be much, much better to learn seeing as it's on the rise.

Can we at JGO, clever chaps that we are, at least not contribute to the propagation of the lie?

Javascript, or whatever framework you use to generate the javascript from a far cleaner base language. But still - its javascript. HTML 5 is just a markup language with some additional tags which just happen to be useful for creating games using Javascript.

Well its just... javascript is bad / nobody really wants to learn or use it and HTML 5 just sounds nicer.
"It's like covering a turd with ice cream sprinkles."

Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #18 - Posted 2012-06-26 18:04:41 »

Well its just... javascript is bad / nobody really wants to learn or use it and HTML 5 just sounds nicer.
"It's like covering a turd with ice cream sprinkles."

He, sucks to be all those novices that run into the world to learn HTML "the solution to all problems in the world" 5 and then figure out the incredibly ugly truth looming beneath that layer sprinkles Wink

I can already see the first posts. "Okay, I managed to create a canvas. Now which buttons do I push to make it do stuff?"
Offline gouessej
« Reply #19 - Posted 2012-06-26 19:28:13 »

HTML5 would be much, much better to learn seeing as it's on the rise.
Maybe it is on the rise but the performance is still very bad except with Chrome 19 and Chromium 18 on all machines I tested. It is not mature enough.

MindOfCorruption97, Flash is working worse than before under GNU Linux and will be discontinued on mobiles. What not going on using Java?
You have to remember how crappy Java was in the beginning, although I didn't personally experience it. It was slow, kind of like HTML5. But now it's pretty good. I think HTML5 will get better over time, especially since it's getting popular.
I'm really fed up with ultra-indulgent comments and articles about WebGL. Java and WebGL are not comparable, the first one is not only a language but rather a platform, the second one is a Javascript API. I remember how Java was in 2002 and it was faster than WebGL. I got only between 0.5 and 2 FPS simply to display a teapot with an NVIDIA Quadro 5000  Shocked Make plenty of suppositions about its future if you want but please come down to Earth: WebGL is extremely slow on lots of machines. I already explained it here.

Ok, pedant Smiley Maybe "HTML5" is de facto referred to now to encompass the whole gamut of required technologies - Javascript and HTML5 and several of the Javscript APIs supported by all the browsers.

Cas Smiley
It still requires half a second to draw a teapot on a graphics card able to treat 950 000 000 triangles per second.

I just say that WebGL is not mature enough now. It doesn't mean that it won't be mature in ten years.

Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #20 - Posted 2012-06-27 10:23:17 »

I just say that WebGL is not mature enough now. It doesn't mean that it won't be mature in ten years.

You forget you're talking about computers here. Its already a miracle that the Java platform survived for so long (I guess Javanoids are really persistent), in 10 years time the technologies available will be vastly different and WebGL will be a legacy thing that never quite made it. We won't care, we'll just be using the next hammer stapled to our hands. Perhaps "HTML 6" which is the main driving force behind WebOS which replaced all operating systems and web browsers in one swoop.

... perhaps I should be registering some domains and laying down some patents.
Offline ReBirth
« Reply #21 - Posted 2012-06-27 14:31:00 »


Well its just... javascript is bad / nobody really wants to learn or use it and HTML 5 just sounds nicer.
I want to start learn it to use Unity.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #22 - Posted 2012-06-27 17:45:44 »

I just say that WebGL is not mature enough now. It doesn't mean that it won't be mature in ten years.

You forget you're talking about computers here.
WebGL support on mobiles and tablets is worse or inexistent:
http://caniuse.com/webgl

Offline krasse
« Reply #23 - Posted 2012-06-27 18:10:08 »


Well its just... javascript is bad / nobody really wants to learn or use it and HTML 5 just sounds nicer.
I want to start learn it to use Unity.

Unity doesn't really use true Javascript. It is similar but more restricted and uses OOP constructs instead of that prototype stuff.

Perhaps you can try to use C# instead? They say it creates better and faster bytecode than "Javascript"/Unityscript


Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 742
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #24 - Posted 2012-06-27 20:32:35 »

Rendering a bunch of translucent quads (vertex limited? fragment limited? ...?) - higher is better...

Note: '2D' means hardware accelerated (!) HTML5 Canvas

Source:
http://www.scirra.com/blog/58/html5-2d-gaming-performance-analysis

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Cero
« Reply #25 - Posted 2012-06-27 21:01:12 »

goooo opera ^^

Offline gouessej
« Reply #26 - Posted 2012-06-27 21:09:24 »

goooo opera ^^
WebGL speed is the same with Opera 12 and Firefox 12 but it's faster with Firefox 14 b7 and even more with Chrome 19.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 339
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #27 - Posted 2012-06-27 21:14:04 »

Getting better all the time.

Just... Javascript though. Eeergh. Why can't I like it?

Cas Smiley

Offline krasse
« Reply #28 - Posted 2012-06-27 22:13:26 »

Just... Javascript though. Eeergh. Why can't I like it?

Yeah, I know the feeling... But I changed after coding a game in it. Netbeans is also surprisingly good for editing JS, but you probably already know this Wink


Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

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Medals: 128
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #29 - Posted 2012-06-28 02:45:18 »

Just... Javascript though. Eeergh. Why can't I like it?

Yeah, I know the feeling... But I changed after coding a game in it. Netbeans is also surprisingly good for editing JS, but you probably already know this Wink


Huh. Wouldn't think NetBeans would be good for JS. Maybe I'll try it...
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