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  Expect Stripped Implementations to be dropped from Java 8  (Read 2191 times)
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Offline Sindisil

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« Posted 2014-02-11 16:32:49 »


Why the hell couldn't they have been working the license issue over the last, you know, *year*? It's not like that work couldn't have been in parallel with the technical work.

In general, I've been surprised by how well Oracle has done with Java, but it's crap like this that makes me reconsider ...

Offline Andre Lopes
« Reply #1 - Posted 2014-02-12 02:38:11 »

Excuse my ignorance Tongue
But what is exactly, " Stripped Implementations"
Offline SwampChicken
« Reply #2 - Posted 2014-02-12 04:12:26 »

They basically want to break down Java into much smaller pieces with their reasoning being that most people don't use the extra bits. However, it also can be seen as a sneaky attempt to "monetize" (gawd, I hate that word) by charging for the extra pieces when people find a need to use them.
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Offline Opiop
« Reply #3 - Posted 2014-02-12 04:15:17 »

I seriously doubt they would do that. Have you actually seen a statement put out by Oracle specifically stating they are going to do this?
Offline SwampChicken
« Reply #4 - Posted 2014-02-12 04:23:28 »

I seriously doubt they would do that.

Why do you say that? Java is very comfortable in the enterprise space and has become quite a monster in the mobile market. Oracle aren't making as much money from this as they would like so surely you can see why they would attempt such a scheme (from a business point-of-view)
Offline Riven

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Hand over your head.

« Reply #5 - Posted 2014-02-12 06:28:45 »

Such a scheme would not in any way depend on whether or not they feature stripped implementations.

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Offline Roquen
« Reply #6 - Posted 2014-02-12 07:27:38 »

Merging the JRocket (the VM you had to pay for) into HotSpot hints that not the direction their headed.  A bunch of proposals that came out at the same time points towards making it easier to use HotSpot has an embedded solution.
Offline gouessej
« Reply #7 - Posted 2014-02-12 08:57:40 »

I fear that Oracle did that to discourage us (JogAmp) to go on using this feature in JiGong Web Plugin. This change has been done a few days after some OpenJDK major contributors (including M. R.) came at the FOSDEM 2014 in which JiGong Web Plugin was showcased. It's not a secret that we would like to run OpenJDK under Android and Jolla.

Offline Roquen
« Reply #8 - Posted 2014-02-12 10:01:00 »

That's silly.  They're moving away from making any money directly and are attempting to make java more viable as a software solution where they and  others can make money.  Anything that makes java a generally more desirable target IS in Oracle's best interest.  Like the old hardware vs. software issue (don't try to make money of the hardware...make it from selling software)..the same logic holds make java useful and desirable to create commercial products.  Directly what effect does the success or failure of JogAmp have on Oracle... absolutely stop looking at your bellybutton and look at it from their perspective.
Offline gouessej
« Reply #9 - Posted 2014-02-12 12:42:33 »

You weren't at FOSDEM 2014 as far as I know, maybe you should be less peremptory and Oracle refused to clarify some aspects in the licensing of OpenJDK about its use outside of desktop environments. The profiles were very useful and anyway, JiGong Web Plugin cannot succeed without proper funding and the help of the Icedtea-Web team. In my humble opinion, if something makes Java a generally more desirable target but without respecting Oracle's vision of the business, it will obviously not be considered by Oracle as being in its best interest. The drop of this feature is very sudden, maybe I'm wrong but my explanation is plausible.

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Offline princec

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« Reply #10 - Posted 2014-02-12 14:15:23 »

It's got nothing to do with that plugin or JogAmp. It is as Roquen says. They've got some more wrangling to do before it'll be possible and there's just not enough time to do it right without impacting the already-late Java 8, and frankly more people will be made more happy if Java 8 ships on time with the features it's got than rather later with this feature in it, which now largely only has any meaning to embedded hardware developers.

Cas Smiley

Offline Roquen
« Reply #11 - Posted 2014-02-12 15:52:01 »

And on the legal front:  Only complaint JVMs are allowed to use the java name.  In general proving a stripped implementation is complaint is equivalent to solving the halting problem.  That's a pretty big wrinkle to think about.
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