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  Exiled Kingdoms -Classic RPG- now on Steam!  (Read 294547 times)
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Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #90 - Posted 2015-07-12 15:58:31 »

I can't find this orc lair. The quest giver says 'other side of the river', but all I can find there is the orc camp...no lair. I searched all the whole map several times, but I just can't find it. I find lots orcs and that camp...but no lair!?

Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #91 - Posted 2015-07-12 16:25:47 »

Not the small river... Other side of the BIG river. You cant cross it in this area even if it is there because there is no bridge over the Bluemist, go to Kingsbridge or New Garand to cross the river, then try to come back to the small part of the area that is west of the river.

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #92 - Posted 2015-07-12 20:31:13 »

I found it. I've never been there, I think.

Edit: Making the NPCs that you have to protect a little bit tougher or at least less hasty would help IMHO. The stupid guy constantly ran into the enemies as if I would he able to fight them but died instantly... Angry I had to reload several times to get him back home in one piece.

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Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #93 - Posted 2015-07-19 18:58:25 »

I found it. I've never been there, I think.

Edit: Making the NPCs that you have to protect a little bit tougher or at least less hasty would help IMHO. The stupid guy constantly ran into the enemies as if I would he able to fight them but died instantly... Angry I had to reload several times to get him back home in one piece.

Agreed. When I designed that quest, spawns were very static. Now they are more difficult as you level, so the NPC you escort must be rescaled just as the enemies are. Will be fixed.

Back from my vacation, now working hard in a new version, and hopefully a Beta within two weeks.

Offline JaredBGreat
« Reply #94 - Posted 2015-07-26 14:23:17 »

I found it. I've never been there, I think.

Edit: Making the NPCs that you have to protect a little bit tougher or at least less hasty would help IMHO. The stupid guy constantly ran into the enemies as if I would he able to fight them but died instantly... Angry I had to reload several times to get him back home in one piece.

Agreed. When I designed that quest, spawns were very static. Now they are more difficult as you level, so the NPC you escort must be rescaled just as the enemies are. Will be fixed.

Back from my vacation, now working hard in a new version, and hopefully a Beta within two weeks.

It seemed to me the biggest problem was the AI which I guess was shared with guards and hired cannon fodder -- not only did the rescued woodsman have little health, but he actively attacked enemies.  It might help if rescued characters avoided combat, or would flee when injured.  I did manage to get him home using the scroll of recall and all my heal-ups, and many frustrating tries, but it seemed like the guy was just suicidal.

The actual companions (Griselda or whatever her name was exactly) seem a little better, partly by not really dying and partly by teleporting back to you if you keep running.  They do sometimes trap the player in a doorway with a monster horde on the other side since they don't seem to have any cease and desist mode.

A few other things I've noticed:  I did find what might be a small hole in the world by the bandit cave at Kingsbridge -- I once was sent to the next region instead of the cave, so the may be a gap on the far right (I ended up and an up painted area where I couldn't move and had to reload).  After dying the local map is empty of monsters until reloaded by leaving and returning.  If more than one game is saved, and is switched, the character icon for the first game load is used for all, but the correct pic appears on the character sheet type page.

I'm at a loss on how to deal with ghosts -- so I get all kinds of ghost protection.  I still seem to do hardly any damage to them, not enough.
Offline ags1

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« Reply #95 - Posted 2015-07-26 19:10:24 »

I know lots of games do this, but still... if you make the spawns harder and the NPC tougher as the player levels up, has the player levelled up? (In any meaningful sense)

Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #96 - Posted 2015-07-27 06:16:06 »

It seemed to me the biggest problem was the AI which I guess was shared with guards and hired cannon fodder -- not only did the rescued woodsman have little health, but he actively attacked enemies.  It might help if rescued characters avoided combat, or would flee when injured.  I did manage to get him home using the scroll of recall and all my heal-ups, and many frustrating tries, but it seemed like the guy was just suicidal.

Yes, before release I will allow you to talk to NPC followers to switch tactics. You'll be able to tell them to only attack enemies when they get real close.

Quote
A few other things I've noticed:  I did find what might be a small hole in the world by the bandit cave at Kingsbridge
Got it, thanks. Fixed for .744

Quote
After dying the local map is empty of monsters until reloaded by leaving and returning.  
I was not able to reproduce this. When you reload after dying, you will return to the map as it was when you slept, so maybe what happens is that you had killed all the monsters before going to sleep? Do civilian NPCs spawn normally?

Quote
If more than one game is saved, and is switched, the character icon for the first game load is used for all
Got it, thanks. Fixed for .744

Quote
I'm at a loss on how to deal with ghosts -- so I get all kinds of ghost protection.  I still seem to do hardly any damage to them, not enough.
Ghosts are almost inmune to physical damage, most weapons will only do minimum damage to them. Try elemental damage, because they're vulnerable to it, in particular shock. Or, as you're going to deal minimum damage anyways, better to use a faster weapon.

EDIT: and use a Potion of Death Ward, combined with your items. Or cast the spell if you're a cleric.

Thank you very much for those bug reports and for your feedback Smiley

Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #97 - Posted 2015-07-27 07:13:05 »

I know lots of games do this, but still... if you make the spawns harder and the NPC tougher as the player levels up, has the player levelled up? (In any meaningful sense)

A fair question, and an interesting one as well. Not only I see your point, but I have said the same thing myself many times when playing games like Skyrim. What is the point of having become godlike-powerful if I still meet bandits that kill me in three hits?

The problem is inherent to the design of open worlds. In a linear RPG this doesn't happen at all: difficulty slopes up, and the player tries to keep up his power level with it. But when you design an open world, in which you have no control on where the player goes or in what order he does things, you have to face a conundrum: how to avoid presenting the player a world in which almost all the content is not appropiate for his current level. He'll constantly meet enemies that are too weak or too strong.

And it will happen, and will be more serious than you might think. Imagine a game in which there are roughly 20 "difficulty steps" or levels. Imagine you design 100 areas/dungeons for your game, each of one different level, 1-20, and you give the player the ability to freely play them in any order. Only a 5% of them will be of an appropiate level for your player, at any given time. So as he wanders and explores, he'll find things either boring, or impossible. Even if you use tricks like, grouping geographically areas of similar difficulty, or blurring a bit the difference between levels, in the end, still most of the content will not be fun for the player to experience. That's why games like the Elder Scrolls series made the design choice of scaling up the content as player levels.

But like you pointed out, that kills the joy of becoming more powerful. So this is what I did: a compromise, based in two ideas. First, scaling up is not indefinite, has a fixed range. Second, the areas will evolve to not become obsolete.

The first point is easy to explain: goblins of different kinds are level 1-7, never more (except certain bosses). In levels 1-3 you face puny goblins, with scarce rewards. and in 4-7, you meet sergeants, firedancers, etc, which also have better loot and give more XP. And they never become more powerful than that, so yes, eventually you become more powerful than goblins, giving meaning to your leveling up. Other spawn tables, like bandits, or orcs, have their own level ranges.

That by itself doesn't solve the problem, of course, because even if this helps increasing the % of game content that is level-appropiate, still the game areas become more and more obsolete as you play. But here is when the second idea comes into play. Once the player "defeats" an area, it evolves into a different challenge, with its own story, risks and rewards.

A little example to illustrate. There is a goblin dungeon, which is appropiate for levels 1-7, with a certain boss that once you defeat, ends the goblin menace. That could bring up some new options for the player, as the trade improves in the nearby town, and maybe new npcs with quests and stories. But eventually, a tribe of trolls  sets up in the empty cave, led by their shaman king. This doesn't need to be linear, or fixed at all, of course. This way, if the player finds the goblin cave "too late", when he is level 10. He'll quickly wipe out the goblins and become the hero, but eventually when the cave gets new inhabitants, he'll meet an appropiate level challenge. Similarly, he can still accidentaly enter an area that is appropiate for level 18-20, like a dragon lair, and die quickly, because after all that's what should happen.

So yes, answering your question, I think that leveling can be meaningful even with scaling content, if done right. My target is not making all of the game ALWAYS appropiate for the player, but changing that 5% of playable areas in my first example, to, let's say, a 50%. Still you'll run into things that kill you, and you'll also get chances to overpower things.

That is what I am trying to do, currently. It takes a lot of work, and most areas in Exiled Kingdoms still don't have different "stages", just a couple of them do. But eventually that's the shape I want it to have.

Sorry for the wall of text, but it's a topic that has been in my head for a long time Cheesy

Offline ags1

JGO Kernel


Medals: 367
Projects: 7


Make code not war!


« Reply #98 - Posted 2015-07-27 10:03:25 »

I have the same problem in the simulation I am working on; it seems to me that as the player levels up, the game they play should change - easy opportunities are still there but they are not rewarding. But new opportunities and interactions have been opened up that were not feasible at a lower level. To that end I am building in a hierarchical semi-feudal social structure into the game.

Offline JaredBGreat
« Reply #99 - Posted 2015-07-27 14:52:05 »

Quote
After dying the local map is empty of monsters until reloaded by leaving and returning.  
I was not able to reproduce this. When you reload after dying, you will return to the map as it was when you slept, so maybe what happens is that you had killed all the monsters before going to sleep? Do civilian NPCs spawn normally?

This usually happens when dying in the Lannegar mines and respawning at the inn in Lannegar -- on my way back to the mines the minor goblin camps I usually raid on the way are gone (the major NPCs in town are there, but I think the cannon fodder mercenaries are missing(?)).  They're all back when I leave the mines though, and I can spawn them by crossing into the Sagar forest and back. I don't think I've seen it elsewhere, but I'm not usually look for that specifically, so I'm not always paying attention -- there it jumped out at me.  Also, when I noticed that it wasn't with the latest snapshot, since I'm a bit of an Android noob and only learned to install update recently, so I didn't have the latest version until bedtime (which is why I didn't go to bed on time last night).

I figured out the effective ghost killing on my second play through of the current main quest content -- the first time I derped around a lot and never finished the Lannegar mines quest line, so I never got the baron's sword.  Having a shock sword made a huge difference.

On difficulty progression, it seems that's a good idea but could be a hard thing to tweak just right.  Right now some quests actually seem harder to finish at higher level (at least rescuing Constanza was, though its confounded by possibly getting better at the game).  I like the idea of content scaling some like this, though when I have to spend a lot of time running between area for quests I wouldn't really have a problem with some of the country side I've already explored and just want to cross seeming a little easy (though I suppose I could let the boat man take me some places).
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Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #100 - Posted 2015-07-27 22:34:16 »

Thanks Jared, I will try to reproduce it in the mine area... actually the way you tell it, it looks like a bug that affect spawntables, as fixed spawns seem to work ok. I'll check it.

also, this is the changelog for today, and for yesterday.:

v.0.4.744 - 27/7/15 (Just uploaded, may need a few hours to update your device)

-Added character level in the UI portrait.
-Bugfix: crash in a loreseeker conversation (kingsbridge).
-Bugfix: World hole in the kingsbridge bandit cave entrance.
-Bugfix: Wrong character portrait when switching games.
-Bugfix: invisibility/stealth effect appeared sometimes on the wrong character.
-The Library enabled (Achievements, scoreboard). Still internal testing, please ignore.
   

v.0.4.743  - 26/7/15

-Areas: added Mount Storme, North Sagar Forest, and a couple dungeons. Others like Gorx Lair have been updated, with new bosses and items.
-Added cleric-specific weapons (maces). Clerics can no longer use shortswords.
-Added Shrines of The Three in some towns (Lannegar, Kingsbridge, Rhöneis, New Garand). There's quests and game lore in all shrines.
-Added a Boatman in New Garand. He doesn't require reputation.
-New step added to main quest stage 2, ("A key to the Past").
-Changed the conversation UI and made the NPC speech font bigger.
-Connection to Google Play Services. Still under testing, if you get an error message just ignore it.

Offline JaredBGreat
« Reply #101 - Posted 2015-07-28 02:21:40 »

Well, I've found a couple other things.  I can't equip great swords (whether as a PC warrior or to an NPC warrior follower).  The button is there, but they don't equip -- they just don't move from the inventory slot they were in.

Also, I have seen quests to catch a baddy "In the northwest Sagar forest, in the foot hills, north of the river, to the east" but they are never there -- I don't see an encampment spot on the map.  There is a camp to the west, but they are never there either.  Could this be an old map spot that was removed?  I've come to just let those fail.  I do get "...to the west" and "...in the Gorx lair," too, so I know its not these.
Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #102 - Posted 2015-07-28 19:32:39 »

 I can't equip great swords (whether as a PC warrior or to an NPC warrior follower).  The button is there, but they don't equip -- they just don't move from the inventory slot they were in.

You have a shield in the offhand?

In any case, I am going to change it, so if that is the case, the shield gets unequipped, because it can lead to confusion.

Quote
Also, I have seen quests to catch a baddy "In the northwest Sagar forest, in the foot hills, north of the river, to the east" but they are never there -- I don't see an encampment spot on the map.  There is a camp to the west, but they are never there either.  Could this be an old map spot that was removed?  I've come to just let those fail.  I do get "...to the west" and "...in the Gorx lair," too, so I know its not these.

Fixed for tonight's build, sorry for the inconvenience.

Offline JaredBGreat
« Reply #103 - Posted 2015-07-29 03:16:41 »

 I can't equip great swords (whether as a PC warrior or to an NPC warrior follower).  The button is there, but they don't equip -- they just don't move from the inventory slot they were in.

You have a shield in the offhand?

Why yeah -- I don't know why I didn't think about it.

I did find another leave the world spot -- in the far SW corner of the Lannegar map, behind the trees, there is nothing to stop you from walking out to a stop in the southern Bluemist map where you are behind the rocks and cannot move.
Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #104 - Posted 2015-07-29 08:55:50 »

Why yeah -- I don't know why I didn't think about it.

I don't know, maybe because when you try, the game doesn't display any message, and even plays the standard sound for equipping an item Tongue I'll do something about it Smiley

I'll also fix that world hole in tonight's build. Thanks once more!

EDIT: Achievements and Leaderboard enabled, if you get a crash just update to .746 which is already in Google Play.

Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #105 - Posted 2015-07-30 22:02:24 »

Just released a new update, and also added a video in the first post. Remember, I am still looking for testers Smiley

v.0.4.747 - 30/7/15

-World Map upgrade: you can select areas for basic information.
-New quests.


Offline DarkCart

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« Reply #106 - Posted 2015-07-31 00:34:31 »

I'd love to give it a shot, is there a desktop version?

The darkest of carts.
Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #107 - Posted 2015-07-31 06:29:07 »

I'd love to give it a shot, is there a desktop version?

Not ready yet, as I have to work in some important details first (controls, assets download, etc). Eventually I'll have it,but so far my initial goal is Android release.

Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #108 - Posted 2015-08-02 20:59:33 »

Just a word of caution for those of you testing: I just uploaded a build that might crash upon opening the game. It will be up in a few hours.

Sadly as it involves logging into Google Play Game Services and related stuff, I have no other way to test it than uploading it (debug builds are not signed with the same credentials...)

I don't think it will actually crash, but if it does, please send the report. Thanks!

Offline JaredBGreat
« Reply #109 - Posted 2015-08-04 22:30:59 »

The priest at Lannegar seems to be missing in one game.  Two things stand out (1) I'm playing as a cleric in that game, and (2) the game was never loaded in the last version, but a version or two back (when clerics used short swords) and was not played again until today in the newest version (i.e., skipped the update where shrines were added).  This is problem does not seem to be there in my other two game saves.

Otherwise, I've reached the apparent end of the current content with my rogue, and haven't seen anything else that looks like a problem.  (There was one crash fighting the big imp in the basement of the tower, but I already sent the crash report, and it only happened the first time.)
Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #110 - Posted 2015-08-04 23:54:04 »

The priest at Lannegar seems to be missing in one game.  Two things stand out (1) I'm playing as a cleric in that game, and (2) the game was never loaded in the last version, but a version or two back (when clerics used short swords) and was not played again until today in the newest version (i.e., skipped the update where shrines were added).  This is problem does not seem to be there in my other two game saves.

Otherwise, I've reached the apparent end of the current content with my rogue, and haven't seen anything else that looks like a problem.  (There was one crash fighting the big imp in the basement of the tower, but I already sent the crash report, and it only happened the first time.)

That is... quite a lot of testing, thank you very much!

About the missing cleric: sleep at inn to respawn the area, I am pretty sure he'll pop.

About the devil, your crash seems to be related to my testing with google APIs, but it is weird that it happened there, and not in the main menu. It happened when you died, maybe?

And about having completed everything, my in-game analytics tell me that no one has completed the "Message in a Bottle" quest, starting in one of New Garand docks. Just in case you want to have them all Cheesy


Offline JaredBGreat
« Reply #111 - Posted 2015-08-05 01:47:55 »

About the devil, your crash seems to be related to my testing with google APIs, but it is weird that it happened there, and not in the main menu. It happened when you died, maybe?

And about having completed everything, my in-game analytics tell me that no one has completed the "Message in a Bottle" quest, starting in one of New Garand docks. Just in case you want to have them all Cheesy

I hadn't found that quest.  And yeah, I did die that time.
Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #112 - Posted 2015-08-05 08:19:11 »

About the devil, your crash seems to be related to my testing with google APIs, but it is weird that it happened there, and not in the main menu. It happened when you died, maybe?

And about having completed everything, my in-game analytics tell me that no one has completed the "Message in a Bottle" quest, starting in one of New Garand docks. Just in case you want to have them all Cheesy

I hadn't found that quest.  And yeah, I did die that time.

If you died, then that makes a little more sense, as it returns to main menu. Okay, thanks!

About that quest, probably I should make it a little more visible then Cheesy

Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #113 - Posted 2015-08-05 22:39:32 »

Here come more updates.

v.0.4.758 - 5/8/15

-fixed some UI elements that looked too small in high resolutions.
-Journal: added option to filter out Town Hall quests.
-when invisible and close to enemies, the log will tell you their chances to listen to you.
-Stealth III now gives a 50% chance of not being spotted when opening doors or containers.
-Bugfixes and engine optimizations.

v.0.4.754 - 3/8/15

-changes to GPGS login, game will not login by default.
-memory optimization.
-solved a few UI glitches related with high resolutions.
-the Store is activated but just for internal testing, please just ignore it.


I am getting closer... closer...

Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #114 - Posted 2015-08-08 19:58:42 »

Today's update:

v.0.4.760 - 8/8/15

-Added the option to backup/restore your saved games to an external archive. You can now move your games between different devices.
-UI changes, Town Hall window and others
-XP changes: quests give a bit more XP, kills give a little less.
-XP table changed. Levels need more XP than before, from level 7+. This might cause you to go down a level but you won't lose your skills already trained, don't worry.
-Memory optimization.

---

Alpha 0.5, which will be the last major Alpha build, is very close now (I have to add game content, which I am already designing). I expect to have it in a couple days.

After that, I start working on the features for Beta 0.6, which will be the first public release Smiley


Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #115 - Posted 2015-08-08 21:24:53 »

-Added the option to backup/restore your saved games to an external archive. You can now move your games between different devices.
That's really neat!

Offline JaredBGreat
« Reply #116 - Posted 2015-08-09 12:42:46 »

Today's update:

v.0.4.760 - 8/8/15

-Added the option to backup/restore your saved games to an external archive. You can now move your games between different devices.
-UI changes, Town Hall window and others
-XP changes: quests give a bit more XP, kills give a little less.
-XP table changed. Levels need more XP than before, from level 7+. This might cause you to go down a level but you won't lose your skills already trained, don't worry.
-Memory optimization.

---

Alpha 0.5, which will be the last major Alpha build, is very close now (I have to add game content, which I am already designing). I expect to have it in a couple days.

After that, I start working on the features for Beta 0.6, which will be the first public release Smiley

Looking forward to the new content (the rest of my tower?  Or simply some more quests would be good).  Also can wondering when it will be possible to own my own storage unit house, of I'll simply be able to use the cleared out tower as one.

No big spoilers please, but looking, but looking forward to t such things.
Offline bornander
« Reply #117 - Posted 2015-08-11 10:53:28 »

Back on testing this.
Where can I see the Achievements I have been awarded?

Try my Android games: Grapple | Hovercraft | Lala
Offline ags1

JGO Kernel


Medals: 367
Projects: 7


Make code not war!


« Reply #118 - Posted 2015-08-11 10:58:48 »

-Added the option to backup/restore your saved games to an external archive. You can now move your games between different devices.

Games should be stored "in the cloud" or you will get branching/versioning issues with your saved games... Smiley

Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #119 - Posted 2015-08-11 14:26:59 »

Quote
Back on testing this.
Where can I see the Achievements I have been awarded?

Main Menu / the Library.

I plan to use nice icons in the main menu (trophy/medals), so it is a bit more clear.

Quote
Games should be stored "in the cloud" or you will get branching/versioning issues with your saved games... Smiley

I would have the exact same issue if saves were stored in the cloud... plus the additional trouble with people that actually hates to login into anything when they play a game. And they exist, really Smiley

I have a class to patch/modify savegames and update it to each new version; I think I shouldn't get much trouble from that. I hope, there's always the overlooked/unexpected, of coruse. I had to do it anyways, since a player can update the game a year later and then try to open their regular saved slots.

Quote
Looking forward to the new content (the rest of my tower?  Or simply some more quests would be good).  Also can wondering when it will be possible to own my own storage unit house, of I'll simply be able to use the cleared out tower as one.
No big spoilers please, but looking, but looking forward to t such things.

Storage will happen, yes. Not sure if Alpha 0.5, but will happen, both in house and in town hall bank.

content: there's actually 5 areas that are rather empty, I am filling them with quests and encounters. I am also introducing the Wizard's Guild and some Wizard towers; you can't still not play a wizard, but they're an essential part of the setting that I have to introduce. Also, they introduce another way of fast travel, to complement boats.

Having said this, writing is harder than coding, and takes a long time. I am progressing slowly. But I will get there.

EDIT: Play Game Services seems to crash upon logging in tonight's build... class not found inside BaseGameUtils library, looks like some dependencies/build path issue. Will fix ASAP, sorry for the inconvenience.

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