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  Early reports on JavaFX 2 are in.  (Read 27869 times)
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Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #60 - Posted 2011-03-02 23:30:53 »

dunno about TWL, but I doubt its components are threadsafe.

Swing, QT, Windows forms, GTK, Cocoa are all generally non-threadsafe, at least parts related to UI.

My frustration is that Swing has been made inflexible so that it is thread-safe. To dictate that all UI code must run on a designated single thread seems silly. All that is really needed is a guarantee that UI code is run from one thread at a time. The actual thread it is run from shouldn't matter.

I wish there was a UI toolkit that had a single update(ArrayList<Event> events) method. Of course the method should only be called by one thread at a time, maybe it should be made synchronized. This method would process the list of events and run all updates. That way the UI toolkit could run on top of LWJGL or AWT or whatever without being tied to an event or threading model. The UI toolkit could be used with LWJGL where events are polled from any thread, or AWT where events are listened for on the event dispatch thread.

I do like the way all Swing painting is all done through the Graphics2D object. The GoldenT Game Engine devs even extended Graphics2D to draw using LWJGL. Pretty cool.


Along those lines the Batik svg component has long had a SVGGraphics2d component that renders to svg output.
Offline CommanderKeith
« Reply #61 - Posted 2011-03-03 00:20:57 »

Yeah that is cool. Batik has a lot of nifti features but they aren't documented very well.

Offline Alan_W

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Java tames rock!


« Reply #62 - Posted 2011-03-22 07:00:48 »

A new interview with Richard Bair
http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/03/jfx2ea

Quote
With Swing and AWT, the event dispatching thread is responsible both for event dispatch and rendering. With Prism, these tasks may be separated into different threads, enabling us to leverage modern multi-core systems to get more work done in less time. Of course the architecture can be single threaded for different target devices where that is necessary, but on most modern machines separate threads will lead to increased frame rates.

Quote
InfoQ: Will it be possible to distribute the run-time as part of a stand-alone installer?

Yes! This has been one of the most frequently requested features and I'm very happy to say that moving forward, the JavaFX license is expected to be consistent with the JRE license, which allows such distribution under specific conditions.

Quote
InfoQ: Will JavaFX be included as part of Java 7?

JavaFX 2.0 will initially be available as a stand-alone download for users of Java SE 6 and Java SE 7, but we plan to provide a combined Java SE 7 / JavaFX 2.0 bundle soon after.


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Offline Matzon

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« Reply #63 - Posted 2011-03-22 08:38:51 »

The fact that it will NOT be open sourced is kind of a sign of the future... a really bad decision imo.

Offline zammbi

JGO Coder


Medals: 4



« Reply #64 - Posted 2011-03-22 08:44:53 »

Quote
The fact that it will NOT be open sourced is kind of a sign of the future... a really bad decision imo.
Huh?

Quote
At JavaOne we announced that we would be releasing the UI controls under an open source license. I cannot comment on the specific plans, other than to say we are committed to and working on this plan.

Sounds like they are trying to get most of it under open source. But be unlikely to see the video stuff open sourced.

Current project - Rename and Sort
Offline nsigma
« Reply #65 - Posted 2011-03-22 10:16:40 »

Quote
At JavaOne we announced that we would be releasing the UI controls under an open source license. I cannot comment on the specific plans, other than to say we are committed to and working on this plan.

Sounds like they are trying to get most of it under open source. But be unlikely to see the video stuff open sourced.

I read that as open source components on top of a closed source ecosystem!  It should all be released under the same licence as OpenJDK.  Doing anything else just splits Java development in half for no discernible reason.

Praxis LIVE - open-source intermedia toolkit and live interactive visual editor
Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections
Offline gouessej
« Reply #66 - Posted 2011-03-29 13:39:17 »

I read that as open source components on top of a closed source ecosystem!  It should all be released under the same licence as OpenJDK.  Doing anything else just splits Java development in half for no discernible reason.
I agree with you and it seems that the JDK 1.7 does not use the same license than the JDK 1.6, should we be worried by this change?

Offline Matzon

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I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #67 - Posted 2011-03-29 15:03:47 »

tinfoil hat says yes

Offline nsigma
« Reply #68 - Posted 2011-03-29 20:56:10 »

... and it seems that the JDK 1.7 does not use the same license than the JDK 1.6, should we be worried by this change?

I'm not aware of any license change to OpenJDK, though you may have seen something I haven't.  JDK 1.7 and OpenJDK 1.7 aren't quite the same thing - as far as I'm aware there is still some stuff in the JDK that was never opened.  A change in licensing of JDK 1.7 shouldn't affect OpenJDK as long as the changes still filter down.  There are a few things I find worrying for Java at the moment - hopefully this is not one of them.

Praxis LIVE - open-source intermedia toolkit and live interactive visual editor
Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections
Offline Alan_W

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Java tames rock!


« Reply #69 - Posted 2011-04-05 20:24:22 »


Richard Bair Talk 13th April

Apparently there will be a live video stream too (currently getting #500 at the moment, hope they fix it by next week)
6pm in California is 2am over here in the UK, with the talk proper at 3am. Might go to bed early and get up for the main talk. I kinda hope someone will post it on youtube though.

No sign of the public beta yet (I signed up to TechNet). I've built 3D block based level and model editors in anticipation.  Maybe they'll get TexturePaint implemented and other polygons will be doable.

Time flies like a bird. Fruit flies like a banana.
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Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Cero
« Reply #70 - Posted 2011-07-21 14:57:59 »

finally the same license as jre
meaning, referring to my old thread about video playback http://www.java-gaming.org/topics/video-playback/23764/msg/199261/view.html
javafx 2 will be the thing to playback video soon. Can't wait.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #71 - Posted 2011-07-26 14:42:00 »

javafx 2 will be the thing to playback video soon. Can't wait.
Without Linux and Mac support, JavaFX 2.0 is rather The ... nothing  Grin

Offline Cero
« Reply #72 - Posted 2011-07-26 15:44:00 »

javafx 2 will be the thing to playback video soon. Can't wait.
Without Linux and Mac support, JavaFX 2.0 is rather The ... nothing  Grin

In the interview it says that those will follow and eventually it will merge with JDK 7
So I have my hopes up.

Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #73 - Posted 2011-07-30 21:43:54 »

Quote
At JavaOne we announced that we would be releasing the UI controls under an open source license. I cannot comment on the specific plans, other than to say we are committed to and working on this plan.

Sounds like they are trying to get most of it under open source. But be unlikely to see the video stuff open sourced.

I read that as open source components on top of a closed source ecosystem!  It should all be released under the same licence as OpenJDK.  Doing anything else just splits Java development in half for no discernible reason.
I have very rarely looked inside the JDK source code, and I know lots of excellent Java developers who have never looked inside. Personally I don't care if I can view the source code or not; decent video playback, graphics performance and supporting current media formats is far more important to me.

Offline nsigma
« Reply #74 - Posted 2011-07-30 23:08:30 »

I read that as open source components on top of a closed source ecosystem!  It should all be released under the same licence as OpenJDK.  Doing anything else just splits Java development in half for no discernible reason.
I have very rarely looked inside the JDK source code, and I know lots of excellent Java developers who have never looked inside. Personally I don't care if I can view the source code or not; decent video playback, graphics performance and supporting current media formats is far more important to me.
Well, I've looked at the JDK source a bit, usually to find workarounds for things, and there's a range of stuff on here (mapped objects recently) that rely on knowing how things in the JDK work.  However, access to the source code is not really the point of my comment ...

What's important to you is pretty much what's important to me.  However, I want to see this in the JDK or at least distributable under identical terms, otherwise you can say goodbye to any form of WORA, and you get developers targeting different subsets of functionality for different platforms even more than today.

I also want to see it open for stability's sake.  At the beginning, JavaFX was being developed under identical terms to OpenJDK, but then it got taken back in-house.  Just look at all the stuff that never saw the light of day (the real slim shady stuff, etc.) because of this.  Having this stuff open ensures that the code is out there and usable if there's enough interest, even if the company behind it decides that it's no longer a priority.  There's a lot of interesting things going on around OpenJDK because companies like Red Hat are contributing things because it's open.  I'd like to see JavaFX benefit from this same multi-vendor approach.

Praxis LIVE - open-source intermedia toolkit and live interactive visual editor
Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections
Offline gouessej
« Reply #75 - Posted 2011-07-31 15:01:10 »

This is quite different for those who contribute to its source code...

Offline nsigma
« Reply #76 - Posted 2011-07-31 16:11:00 »

This is quite different for those who contribute to its source code...
Is that a response to my last post. Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Can you elaborate?

Praxis LIVE - open-source intermedia toolkit and live interactive visual editor
Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections
Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #77 - Posted 2011-07-31 19:32:16 »

I read that as open source components on top of a closed source ecosystem!  It should all be released under the same licence as OpenJDK.  Doing anything else just splits Java development in half for no discernible reason.
I have very rarely looked inside the JDK source code, and I know lots of excellent Java developers who have never looked inside. Personally I don't care if I can view the source code or not; decent video playback, graphics performance and supporting current media formats is far more important to me.
Having this stuff open ensures that the code is out there and usable if there's enough interest, even if the company behind it decides that it's no longer a priority.
If Oracle dropped JavaFX tomorrow, then I would expect a group would pop up to finish the work. However like on the other majority of occasions that this happens, I would also expect the code to slowly become buggy and out-of-date. The issue is that without tonnes of interest, or a company paying people to work on it, then the vast majority of open-source projects go no where.

Being open source doesn't really guarantee anything about it's future.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #78 - Posted 2011-08-01 10:08:14 »

This is quite different for those who contribute to its source code...
Is that a response to my last post. Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Can you elaborate?
Yes it is. When I contribute, I look at the license. I would not contribute by any means to a closed source software, I might report a bug but I would refuse spending some time to try to fix it. I don't want my contributions to be added into a product which could become completely closed, I'm not paid to work for Oracle. When I develop free open source softwares, I work for the whole mankind.

Moreover, I prefer using OpenJDK when it is technically possible because I prefer its license as a user of free open source softwares. When I want to buy a fruit or a vegetable, I try to favour ethical products over the other products if it is still affordable for me, I try to do the same in computer science.

Offline nsigma
« Reply #79 - Posted 2011-08-01 11:41:14 »

Firstly, I just want to reiterate that my primary point here, which is relevant whatever your views on open-source development, is that I want to see JavaFX under the same license as OpenJDK because I don't want to see a two-tier Java ecosystem.  I think we all want to see graphics and media support improved, but I want to see this happen in Java itself.  I don't want to see the JRE just grow and grow - I want to see Java modularised, the older buggy stuff deprecated and downloaded on demand, and the newer stuff find it's way in.  However, the JavaFX benefits will never find their way into core Java unless they're license compatible with OpenJDK, as OpenJDK is now the reference implementation for Java!

If Oracle dropped JavaFX tomorrow, then I would expect a group would pop up to finish the work.
How? And with what???
However like on the other majority of occasions that this happens, I would also expect the code to slowly become buggy and out-of-date. The issue is that without tonnes of interest, or a company paying people to work on it, then the vast majority of open-source projects go no where.

Being open source doesn't really guarantee anything about it's future.
I'm not claiming it's a panacea or without issues.  However, to paraphrase what you wrote - the issue is that without a company paying people to work on it, all closed-source abandon-ware goes nowhere!

I think this is doubly important with libraries, particularly when developing something for a third-party client.  I want to know that if a bug comes up in a library I'm using, at the worst case scenario I can fork the code and fix it.  My client doesn't care that X library is no longer a priority for Mega Corp. - they want me to honour my contract!

Yes it is. When I contribute, I look at the license. I would not contribute by any means to a closed source software, I might report a bug but I would refuse spending some time to try to fix it. I don't want my contributions to be added into a product which could become completely closed, I'm not paid to work for Oracle. When I develop free open source softwares, I work for the whole mankind.

Moreover, I prefer using OpenJDK when it is technically possible because I prefer its license as a user of free open source softwares. When I want to buy a fruit or a vegetable, I try to favour ethical products over the other products if it is still affordable for me, I try to do the same in computer science.

Our views are not that dissimilar, though I wouldn't go as far as saying "I work for the whole mankind"   Tongue  I was just emphasising that there are reasons for preferring JavaFX to be open-source above and beyond it just being open-source.

Praxis LIVE - open-source intermedia toolkit and live interactive visual editor
Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections
Offline princec

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« Reply #80 - Posted 2011-08-01 12:20:06 »

I prefer closed-source development. But then I also would prefer it being something people had to pay for, because then it'd have a budget and people who actually got paid to make it good, and so on. And then I'd also like it so they opened the source for perusal, if not necessarily allowing any old internet person to actually commit changes or patches.

Cas Smiley

Offline nsigma
« Reply #81 - Posted 2011-08-01 14:50:50 »

I prefer closed-source development. But then I also would prefer it being something people had to pay for, because then it'd have a budget and people who actually got paid to make it good, and so on.
hmm .. if only that translated into quality.  I'm pretty biased these days having switched over to working with open-source software exclusively in my work, but one of the reasons that made me switch is I simply got fed up of paying for crap that didn't work properly.  Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of great commercial software out there - there's also a lot that isn't worth the paper its warranty ain't written on.  There's a lot of stuff that doesn't work properly on Linux too, but at least I don't feel ripped off when it doesn't work.

A lot of the best open-source software also does have a budget and people paid to make it good - there are different ways of monetizing your work.

if not necessarily allowing any old internet person to actually commit changes or patches.

I can't think of any (successful  Smiley ) open-source project that works like that!

Praxis LIVE - open-source intermedia toolkit and live interactive visual editor
Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections
Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #82 - Posted 2011-08-01 17:38:24 »

I prefer closed-source development. But then I also would prefer it being something people had to pay for, because then it'd have a budget and people who actually got paid to make it good, and so on.
hmm .. if only that translated into quality.  I'm pretty biased these days having switched over to working with open-source software exclusively in my work, but one of the reasons that made me switch is I simply got fed up of paying for crap that didn't work properly.  Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of great commercial software out there - there's also a lot that isn't worth the paper its warranty ain't written on.  There's a lot of stuff that doesn't work properly on Linux too, but at least I don't feel ripped off when it doesn't work.
Generally, I find closed-source software to be better made then open-source, so I agree with Cas here too. The best nvidia drivers on Linux are easily the closed source ones, and you can compare .NET to Mono, or a few years ago the then closed-source Java to the open-source alternatives of the time. Today the Oracle JDK is much more commercially backed then OpenJDK, and the difference shows.

Offline nsigma
« Reply #83 - Posted 2011-08-01 19:04:18 »

I prefer closed-source development. But then I also would prefer it being something people had to pay for, because then it'd have a budget and people who actually got paid to make it good, and so on.
hmm .. if only that translated into quality.  I'm pretty biased these days having switched over to working with open-source software exclusively in my work, but one of the reasons that made me switch is I simply got fed up of paying for crap that didn't work properly.  Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of great commercial software out there - there's also a lot that isn't worth the paper its warranty ain't written on.  There's a lot of stuff that doesn't work properly on Linux too, but at least I don't feel ripped off when it doesn't work.
Generally, I find closed-source software to be better made then open-source, so I agree with Cas here too. The best nvidia drivers on Linux are easily the closed source ones, and you can compare .NET to Mono, or a few years ago the then closed-source Java to the open-source alternatives of the time. Today the Oracle JDK is much more commercially backed then OpenJDK, and the difference shows.

Er ... I don't entirely disagree with your first sentence, but your examples are rubbish!  Of course the closed-source nvidia drivers are better - the hardware is closed and has to be reverse engineered.  If you look at AMD/ATI where the specs have been released then it's becoming a different story (which wouldn't be hard!).  Both Mono and early open-source Java alternatives were playing catch up with existing products so of course were behind - and don't forget that Harmony led to Android which is a huge step beyond JavaME!  And as for Oracle JDK <> OpenJDK, a lot of the commercial backing is now going into OpenJDK, the code is practically identical, OpenJDK is now the reference implementation for Java, and quite a chunk of the interesting stuff in Java 7 came through the OpenJDK process.

I could fly back a load of examples that could prove either side of this argument, but it's pointless because (I say again) my real issue here is the prospect of a two-tier Java ecosystem which doesn't benefit anyone, whether they're more of a fan of open or closed development.  I want to see this stuff in the core JDK, and the only way that's going to happen is if it's license compatible.

Praxis LIVE - open-source intermedia toolkit and live interactive visual editor
Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections
Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

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« Reply #84 - Posted 2011-08-01 21:07:00 »

Saw this post which look pretty interesting. JavaFX without the Java VM!
Offline CyanPrime
« Reply #85 - Posted 2011-08-02 20:02:20 »

Javafx2 is the bee's knees
http://www.prime.programming-designs.com/galaxy/Galaxy.html
Can I get some feedback on how awesome this is?
Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #86 - Posted 2011-08-02 20:41:20 »

Javafx2 is the bee's knees
http://www.prime.programming-designs.com/galaxy/Galaxy.html
Can I get some feedback on how awesome this is?
Failed to run:
Quote
MissingFieldException[ The following required field is missing from the launch file: <jnlp>(<application-desc>|<applet-desc>|<installer-desc>|<component-desc>)]
   at com.sun.javaws.jnl.XMLFormat.parse(Unknown Source)
   at com.sun.javaws.jnl.LaunchDescFactory.buildDescriptor(Unknown Source)
   at com.sun.javaws.jnl.LaunchDescFactory.buildDescriptor(Unknown Source)
   at com.sun.javaws.jnl.LaunchDescFactory.buildDescriptor(Unknown Source)
   at com.sun.javaws.Main.launchApp(Unknown Source)
   at com.sun.javaws.Main.continueInSecureThread(Unknown Source)
   at com.sun.javaws.Main$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Offline CyanPrime
« Reply #87 - Posted 2011-08-02 20:48:16 »

Was that the applet? or the jnlp you tried to run?

edit: you have javafx 2.0 installed right?
Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #88 - Posted 2011-08-02 21:24:40 »

Was that the applet? or the jnlp you tried to run?

edit: you have javafx 2.0 installed right?
I ran using Webstart, and no I don't have JavaFX installed. I presumed you had linked to it in the JNLP. If you can do that, then you might want to do the same with the applet, as you can use JNLP files with applets too.

Also it says:
Quote
JavaFX 2.0 is required to view this content but JavaFX
Should that be 'not'?

Offline princec

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« Reply #89 - Posted 2011-08-02 23:21:11 »

Couldn't get it to work on any browser using any link at all. Gave up. This is typical of the Java experience.

Cas Smiley

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