kappa
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Posted
2010-06-01 18:16:47 » |
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Well as most of you may have heard Google announced the Chrome Web Store at Google I/O. From the demonstration at the event it seems that its a Web Store done right (unlike the Java Store). There was an impressive showcase of 3d games powered by Unity3d (the standard web plugin). I have confirmed with the devs that Java Applets will be supported (as well as any other plugins that runs in the browser, flash, native client, silverlight, etc). Its essentially just a way in which a desktop icon is added to your computer and when clicked will open the browser. I reckon java applets (using LWJGL or JOGL) could work really well here, if you use a proper certificate users should only get one security dialog which is shown the first time applet is run (which isn't bad for a one time install). If the store does well this could be a pretty cool way to monetise java games/apps (would also make sense for Android games/apps as they can share code bases). Also it looks likely the Web Store will be the main way to install apps on the upcoming ChromeOS (which does run java applets, but atm is unclear if java will be installed by default). more info and video here |
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TheAnalogKid
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Reply #1 - Posted
2010-06-01 21:44:37 » |
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The java games on the PC do have a better future! But for any product, marketing is everything...
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gouessej
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Reply #2 - Posted
2010-06-02 17:12:36 » |
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What about Java Web Start?
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Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Riven
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Reply #3 - Posted
2010-06-02 18:52:50 » |
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What about Java Web Start?
Yeah, what about it? I fail to see the relevance. |
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TheAnalogKid
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Reply #4 - Posted
2010-06-02 19:23:42 » |
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I think he means games running in webstart in chrome web store. I don't see why it would be an issue.
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Riven
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Reply #5 - Posted
2010-06-02 19:26:22 » |
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I think he means games running in webstart in chrome web store. I don't see why it would be an issue.
As said by kapta, Chrome Web Store is merely a collection of URLs, so it shouldn't be a problem. That said, given how horrible Web Start is, nobody should use it. |
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kappa
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Reply #6 - Posted
2010-06-02 20:04:27 » |
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Its unlikely that java web start is supported, its not real web content and doesn't run in the browser. JWS is just a text file(xml) that is downloaded and run by an external application. If you must have something like JWS then its better to go for GetDown, its superior to JWS and just works. |
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Riven
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Reply #7 - Posted
2010-06-02 20:07:16 » |
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Its unlikely that java web start is supported, its not real web content and doesn't run in the browser.
You can use javascript to redirect to the JNLP file, so surely it will work. But again, nobody should do that. |
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kappa
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Reply #8 - Posted
2010-06-02 20:13:49 » |
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You can use javascript to redirect to the JNLP file, so surely it will work. But again, nobody should do that.
not sure Chrome supports launching or associating jnlp files, it just treat them as downloadable text files. besides with java's plagued image, the last thing end users need to see is a java logo or dialog before your app starts  |
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Riven
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Reply #9 - Posted
2010-06-02 20:43:35 » |
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not sure Chrome supports launching or associating jnlp files, it just treat them as downloadable text files. besides with java's plagued image, the last thing end users need to see is a java logo or dialog before your app starts Chrome Web Store works in every HTML5 enabled browser |
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Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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kappa
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Reply #10 - Posted
2010-06-02 21:34:00 » |
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Chrome Web Store works in every HTML5 enabled browser ah, nice but yeh jws is a technology best avoided in this use case. |
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erikd
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Reply #11 - Posted
2010-06-03 00:06:07 » |
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Aw come on, JWS is not *that* bad.
To be honest I've generally had more luck with .jnlp than with applets, especially when it comes to games using OpenGL.
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Riven
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Reply #12 - Posted
2010-06-03 00:18:56 » |
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Aw come on, JWS is not *that* bad.
To be honest I've generally had more luck with .jnlp than with applets, especially when it comes to games using OpenGL.
JWS is reliable on a 'just a hobby' level. Nothing you'd use for anything commercially. The caching is bugged, the HTTP connections are flaky at best, and the "it worked the second time"-bug is still around. Not to mention the flooding of the "Add/remove programs" under Windows, the deadlocks while loading the security dialog since 6u19 and blocking-modal- popunder-dialogs when asking for a desktop-shortcut while you're in FSEM. No doubt I missed a few hundred other issues. Anyway, let's not derail this thread (too much) and hope the Chrome Web Store will be a stable/reliable deployment method. |
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noblemaster
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Reply #13 - Posted
2010-06-03 02:33:31 » |
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I agree with erikd. I am having more luck with Java Web Start than Java Applets. Caching issues with Applets are worse than what I experienced using JWS.
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jezek2
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Reply #14 - Posted
2010-06-03 10:30:16 » |
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I agree with erikd. I am having more luck with Java Web Start than Java Applets. Caching issues with Applets are worse than what I experienced using JWS.
Caching issues can be workarounded by adding (partial) MD5 hash to the filename of each .jar, worked very well for me |
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kappa
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Reply #15 - Posted
2010-06-03 10:34:11 » |
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I agree with erikd. I am having more luck with Java Web Start than Java Applets. Caching issues with Applets are worse than what I experienced using JWS.
stuff like LWJGL's Appletloader and GetDown manage their own downloading and caching thus do not suffer from the issue. |
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TheAnalogKid
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Reply #16 - Posted
2010-06-03 15:19:42 » |
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Yes, LWJGL Applets work very well. User experience and caching are very good, though it happened that I had to delete the Java pluging cache to resolve weird class loading bug(s) but I think it doesn't happen anymore with the latest version of LWJGL applet.
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erikd
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Reply #17 - Posted
2010-06-03 19:28:48 » |
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JWS is reliable on a 'just a hobby' level. Nothing you'd use for anything commercially.
The caching is bugged, the HTTP connections are flaky at best, and the "it worked the second time"-bug is still around. Not to mention the flooding of the "Add/remove programs" under Windows, the deadlocks while loading the security dialog since 6u19 and blocking-modal-popunder-dialogs when asking for a desktop-shortcut while you're in FSEM. No doubt I missed a few hundred other issues. Anyway, let's not derail this thread (too much) and hope the Chrome Web Store will be a stable/reliable deployment method.
Ok JWS is not perfect, but at least it doesn't depend on some flaky browser plugin, nor can it crash or freeze the browser, nor do you have to work around grey boxes until everything is loaded. I'd even go as far as to say I'd rather depend on JWS than on applets, even commercially. Better to be able to say "Well, try again, it usually works the second time" (although it's been years since the last time I saw that myself) than to have to say "Sorry my game destroyed your hard work when it crashed your browser". In my experience JWS is far more reliable than applets. |
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kappa
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Reply #18 - Posted
2010-06-03 20:07:49 » |
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Ok JWS is not perfect, but at least it doesn't depend on some flaky browser plugin, nor can it crash or freeze the browser, nor do you have to work around grey boxes until everything is loaded.
I'd even go as far as to say I'd rather depend on JWS than on applets, even commercially. Better to be able to say "Well, try again, it usually works the second time" (although it's been years since the last time I saw that myself) than to have to say "Sorry my game destroyed your hard work when it crashed your browser". In my experience JWS is far more reliable than applets.
applets use to be truly horrid and JWS was a far superior choice. However I ask that you give them another chance and re-evaluate them. The changes and fixes that have gone into applets (plus browsers) especially since the Java 1.6.0_10+ release are significant and address almost all the issues you have outlined above. There is tons of room for improvement but as it stands now applets IMO have advanced to a level where they are now a better and more reliable deployment method then JWS (generally speaking). |
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corneal99
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Reply #20 - Posted
2010-06-24 17:20:06 » |
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Interested to know how you were gonna fill up that Chrome OS app page?
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DzzD
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Reply #21 - Posted
2010-06-24 19:15:34 » |
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once again Google just re-invents the well using the powerness of their audience... ( they did not show O3D sample ? too bad this is sooo new ans sooo standard éh ? no ? ) someone please make another search engine fast ! Google please stop propaganda !! wow... I am so negative today ^^  JWS is not really a technology "Web styled" and then absolutly useless, no more interrest than a standard executable jar file except that it really spam window " install / unsinstall " |
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h3ckboy
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Reply #22 - Posted
2010-06-26 23:16:12 » |
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umm, DzzD, for starters, they arent just reinventing something with the benifit of their audience. their re-inventing something sot aht it works just to be honest, the java store was crap. and the chrome store will better support java stuff,a nd other platforms as well.
I gotta go right now, but that is the general idea
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ChrisM
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Reply #24 - Posted
2010-08-20 18:19:42 » |
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umm, DzzD, for starters, they arent just reinventing something with the benifit of their audience. their re-inventing something sot aht it works just to be honest, the java store was crap. and the chrome store will better support java stuff,a nd other platforms as well.
I gotta go right now, but that is the general idea
Totally agree! |
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oNyx
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Reply #25 - Posted
2010-08-20 19:59:35 » |
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Also, Google will only take a 5% cut.
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zammbi
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Reply #26 - Posted
2010-08-21 07:50:04 » |
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Are there any Java apps on there atm?
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kappa
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Reply #27 - Posted
2010-12-19 01:20:09 » |
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Someone pointed out that the Chrome Web Store is now open. Already has some Java games on it e.g. Puzzle Pirates and RuneScape. https://chrome.google.com/webstore |
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gouessej
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Reply #28 - Posted
2010-12-19 15:28:26 » |
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and you can add games that use Java Web Start  You only have to put the URL of your JNLP file into the manifest file: 1
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| "app": {
"urls": [
"${codebase-url}"
],
"launch": {
"web_url": "${codebase-url}/${tuer-jnlp-filename}"
}
}, |
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kappa
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Reply #29 - Posted
2010-12-19 15:51:38 » |
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and you can add games that use Java Web Start nice, but better to use something like Getdown, much more reliable (Puzzle Pirates uses it). |
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