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  Can you just sit down and make a game?  (Read 3399 times)
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Offline opiop65

JGO Kernel


Medals: 159
Projects: 7
Exp: 3 years


JumpButton Studios


« Reply #30 - Posted 2013-11-30 19:32:46 »

I find that if I code for a while and run into a problem, I can just take a (not even kidding) 30 second break and do something not related to programming and I'll realize what I need to do.

Offline niroshido

Junior Devvie


Medals: 4
Exp: 4 years



« Reply #31 - Posted 2013-12-01 20:19:25 »

hmm i have been wanting to make a post regarding the subject on hand. I suppose for me this is an opportunity to explain my view.

I have recently graduated from college with a Degree in Computing with games development, throughout my course i was thought to use Java as the main language and was familiarised with design patterns and principles. Ever since then when ever i feel like making a game i get caught in a web of thoughts that usually paralyse me from programming. I am one of these people who spend more time thinking than actually using the time to do something productive and when this year started i said i was going to design a game, but it had to be in Java and it was to not include any libraries or API's outside of the standard Java API

I have yet to begin to be honest, every time i have sat down and wondered where to begin i actually find myself coming to this site for inspiration and have even copied and pasted Eli Delventhal's game loop as a start, but then i encounter issues first of all trying to understand why this recommended loop is better and how i can move stuff on screen without the graphics glitch you get when you don't clean up after a move, where do i go from here, what about making the code more robust so it adheres to design priniciples, at this point then i find myself stuck in my little web of confusion and get no where. So to answer the question posed by the thread starter, no i can't. I wish i could but i find myself trying to juggle between creating the most robust game ever and spending hours trying to understand why this works and why that doesn't.
Offline trollwarrior1
« Reply #32 - Posted 2013-12-01 20:29:10 »

hmm i have been wanting to make a post regarding the subject on hand. I suppose for me this is an opportunity to explain my view.

I have recently graduated from college with a Degree in Computing with games development, throughout my course i was thought to use Java as the main language and was familiarised with design patterns and principles. Ever since then when ever i feel like making a game i get caught in a web of thoughts that usually paralyse me from programming. I am one of these people who spend more time thinking than actually using the time to do something productive and when this year started i said i was going to design a game, but it had to be in Java and it was to not include any libraries or API's outside of the standard Java API

I have yet to begin to be honest, every time i have sat down and wondered where to begin i actually find myself coming to this site for inspiration and have even copied and pasted Eli Delventhal's game loop as a start, but then i encounter issues first of all trying to understand why this recommended loop is better and how i can move stuff on screen without the graphics glitch you get when you don't clean up after a move, where do i go from here, what about making the code more robust so it adheres to design priniciples, at this point then i find myself stuck in my little web of confusion and get no where. So to answer the question posed by the thread starter, no i can't. I wish i could but i find myself trying to juggle between creating the most robust game ever and spending hours trying to understand why this works and why that doesn't.

I don't dat feeling bro. If you're just starting out and you want to make a small game, I think you shouldn't really care about performance. Just code stuff the way you can't. Now what I will say I'm not saying, because I think I'm better, but since I made few games already I think I can talk about it. If you think I'm wrong, I have nothing against it.

Since you're saying you graduated from college, that doesn't mean you can just make a game. You really need to put a lot of effort to make something. Even if you know "principles" and "techniques" from college, I doubt you can just make a game out of them. When I was making my first game, it took huge amount of time for a very shit game. It wasn't even a game. You couldn't do anything in it. But I just kept doing stuff and I can just feel that I'm getting better. Problems that were once hard and confusing are so simple I don't even need to think about them. However, now other problems are rising, but on the whole new level. My suggestion would be not to get caught up in that "web of thoughts" and just do something.

Here is my favorite quote about game development (Probably the only one I know ! Cheesy)
(Something along those lines) "If you want to make games, just make games" - Notch

If you need some kind of inspiration, check out Notch coding stuff for ludum dare.. When I lose the will do something I just take a look at the and bam... I don't even notice how myself, but there I'm working again! Cheesy
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Offline niroshido

Junior Devvie


Medals: 4
Exp: 4 years



« Reply #33 - Posted 2013-12-01 21:46:23 »

Well i certainly agree, if there is anything i learned from college it is that they wont teach you how to make games, they will only give you some of the insight needed to get you on that road.

i have been aware of ludums dare for a while now, never believe i could produce something good enough for it though, especially in that timeframe.
Offline opiop65

JGO Kernel


Medals: 159
Projects: 7
Exp: 3 years


JumpButton Studios


« Reply #34 - Posted 2013-12-01 22:08:50 »

I actually don't struggle so much with ideas yet, I just struggle with algorithms.

For instance, today I tried to implement simple AABB collision into my game, and because I've never actually done it by myself, I couldn't figure it out, which is frustrating because so many people can do it in their sleep. It's also frustrating when something you've done before that's easy suddenly doesn't work, or code shared between different classes doesn't work the same between them. I have a player class and a zombie class, and with the player I move ~6 pixels every time a movement key is pressed, but for some reason zombies at the same movement speed, they actually move around four times as fast, which is infuriating considering they both use the same basic positioning code.

I guess the only reason I'm comftorable with low level OpenGL is because I've used it for long enough that its trivial to implement most stuff now. I just have to make collision detection and other things like that trivial, and then I'll do alright!

I'm doing LD in a few weeks, so I need to prepare fast and learn some things before I compete so I don't just rage quit, but I'm very optimistic! I've decided I'm going to sit down and make very small programs that deal with the issues I'm facing. For instance, I'll make a program that helps me learn about collisions, one for GLSL stuff and one for some mid level AI. I think that's the best way I can think of to learn!

Also, I recommend learning about your graphics API of choice by making a utility library like I did with OpenGL. I learned a lot and I use it to quickly set up new programs and load textures and log files etc... Its a good way to learn and then you can use it to make games!

Offline StumpyStrust
« Reply #35 - Posted 2013-12-02 00:00:47 »

Best advice about computer science I got from my university was from a professor that said, "We are not here to teach you a language but to teach you computer science and how to learn new technologies."

Offline trollwarrior1
« Reply #36 - Posted 2013-12-02 05:01:15 »

Well i certainly agree, if there is anything i learned from college it is that they wont teach you how to make games, they will only give you some of the insight needed to get you on that road.

i have been aware of ludums dare for a while now, never believe i could produce something good enough for it though, especially in that timeframe.

I didn't mean to produce anything. Download the source code, it really should help you a lot.
http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-22/?action=preview&uid=398
Offline Troncoso

JGO Coder


Medals: 20



« Reply #37 - Posted 2013-12-02 14:34:52 »

I feel older than most of you now. Haha. Everyone has a few months to a year or two of experience, and here I've been programming for 7-8 years.

If I'm just using the Java API, I can program anything. Like anything. Maybe not in the most efficient way (I didn't know until just a few months ago that HashMap had an entrySet() method), but if it's a large project, it'd probably be a couple weeks before I found the need to open a browser and look something up.

If I'm using Slick2D, I can pretty much do the same. It's when I get into LWJGL that I need to start looking up some classes and methods. It's all about how much experience you have in what you are working with.
Offline niroshido

Junior Devvie


Medals: 4
Exp: 4 years



« Reply #38 - Posted 2013-12-02 21:23:47 »

i have actually downloaded minicraft source code ages ago actually and when i look at it i usually start thrawling through it and get frustrated at not being able to do something similar, its rather pathetic tbh.
Offline opiop65

JGO Kernel


Medals: 159
Projects: 7
Exp: 3 years


JumpButton Studios


« Reply #39 - Posted 2013-12-03 01:21:47 »

i have actually downloaded minicraft source code ages ago actually and when i look at it i usually start thrawling through it and get frustrated at not being able to do something similar, its rather pathetic tbh.
Well, in your defense looking through source code is always pretty confusing unless you're staring at it for hours every day and working with it. Plus, variable names aren't un-obfuscated after you decompile the source, so you have to guess what does what. I still don't understand most of it! (A lot of it!)

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline niroshido

Junior Devvie


Medals: 4
Exp: 4 years



« Reply #40 - Posted 2013-12-03 11:12:55 »

I have been working in JavaScript and HTML5 for 3 months now, as part of an internship i am doing for a small company. I find that after 3 months of programming in JavaScript, that i know more about that scripting language than i did learning Java which i had been studying for close to 7 years (through college courses), so i suppose if there is any lesson that could be picked up it is as others in this thread have said (including Notch) the best way to learn programming is to program. I however feel the differences between the likes of JavaScript and Java. It seems to be easier to work in JavaScript for games development, that i suppose has a lot to do with my main area of struggle, the game loop. The internship will be done in a week from today so my next focus is the Java game i promised to make. Let me ask though, am i really better off using a library like Slick2d or LWJGL now as opposed to trying to create the most simplistic games? that is one reason why i can't just sit down and start coding, because i know there are tools available to reduce the whole reinventing the wheel issue.
Offline opiop65

JGO Kernel


Medals: 159
Projects: 7
Exp: 3 years


JumpButton Studios


« Reply #41 - Posted 2013-12-03 11:21:29 »

Well, if you don't want to reinvent the wheel, go with LibGDX. But really, game loops aren't that difficult, here's an example of the one I use in my game library:
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private void run() {
      frames = 0;
      int frameCounter = 0;

      final double frameTime = 1.0 / frameCap;

      long lastTime = Time.getTime();
      double unprocessed = 0;

      while (running && !Window.isWindowCloseRequested()) {
         boolean render = false;
         long startTime = Time.getTime();
         long passedTime = startTime - lastTime;
         lastTime = startTime;

         unprocessed += passedTime / (double) Time.SECOND;
         frameCounter += passedTime;

         while (unprocessed > frameTime) {
            render = true;
            unprocessed -= frameTime;

            if (Window.isWindowCloseRequested())
               stop();

            Time.setDelta(frameTime);
            update();

            if (frameCounter >= Time.SECOND) {
               if (debugMode) {
                  System.out.println("FPS: " + frames);
               }
               currentFPS = frames;
               frames = 0;
               frameCounter = 0;
            }
         }
         if (render) {
            render();
            frames++;
         } else {
            try {
               Thread.sleep(1);
            } catch (InterruptedException e) {
               e.printStackTrace();
            }
         }
      }
      stop();
   }

Offline niroshido

Junior Devvie


Medals: 4
Exp: 4 years



« Reply #42 - Posted 2013-12-03 11:27:35 »

I will take a look at the code more in depth later, i am actually in work at the moment. Thanks
Offline KevinWorkman

JGO Kernel


Medals: 98
Projects: 11
Exp: 12 years


klaatu barada nikto


« Reply #43 - Posted 2013-12-03 15:37:14 »

Somebody probably mentioned this already, but Ludum Dare is coming up in a couple weeks, and it's a great way to see what you're capable of doing. Check it out: http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/

Static Void Games - Play indie games, learn game programming, upload your own games!
Offline opiop65

JGO Kernel


Medals: 159
Projects: 7
Exp: 3 years


JumpButton Studios


« Reply #44 - Posted 2013-12-03 23:11:35 »

I'm doing LD this time, I'm really excited to see what I can create under all that pressure! I've been studying up and learning new algorithms/functions.

Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #45 - Posted 2013-12-04 08:25:18 »

Best advice about computer science I got from my university was from a professor that said, "We are not here to teach you a language but to teach you computer science and how to learn new technologies."

THAT guy understood it.
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