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  AMD has revealed an API that gives developers direct access to GPUs using ...  (Read 5771 times)
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Offline Ghidra

Senior Newbie


Medals: 3



« Reply #30 - Posted 2014-01-01 03:38:16 »

...if it succeeded it'd split up PC between Nvidia and AMD since in that case Nvidia and Intel might make their own Mantle-like API.

This is an excellent point, and I really wish that's what would happen, but here are the best possibilities I see:
01)  The only titles that take advantage of this technology will be console-centric games where the publisher has decided that it wants to have the option to release quick and "less dirty" ports to the PC.  This publisher will have decided that it wants to be the first to make its games inaccessible to much more than half of the primary PC gaming market--or roughly half, depending on how significant Intel is in your considerations (but growing day by day).  In order for the publisher to be motivated enough to do this, AMD would need to somehow incentivize the publisher's adoption of this business strategy.  The PC is not a closed platform like a console, however, so fewer options are available.  AMD would basically need to pay directly out of pocket for a blockbuster game--something it will not do because gaming does not make up enough of its bottom line.
02)  A title using this API will be in need of the performance enhancements it offers... because the current generation consoles have hit their limits already..?  The only case in which this would be relevant would be when a publisher was releasing a title to all four platforms (Xbox, PS, Wii, restricted PC), wanted its game to look as cutting edge as possible, and needed the Wii U version to be visually consistent with the others... without sacrificing all of the advantages of running on current gen hardware in the process.
03)  I forgot what three was, but you can be sure that it was as important (and unlikely) as my previous two points. 

I am a big AMD supporter, but Intel and NVidia--really just Intel--don't have to do anything at all, and they know it.  How does all of this affect Java games development?  The only way this could possibly affect it is if Java code ran on any of the games consoles, which it doesn't the last time I checked.
Offline kappa
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« Reply #31 - Posted 2014-01-01 13:49:05 »

@Ghida Mantle is a PC exclusive API atm (and probably SteamBox) and its not going to be available on any of the current consoles (PS4, XBO, WiiU). Sony & Microsoft already have their own low level api's available on their consoles which give features similar to what Mantle now provides PC.
Offline Spasi
« Reply #32 - Posted 2014-01-30 11:03:30 »

First real-world results: Mantle renderer now available in Battlefield 4. Up to 58% faster in a high-end configuration.
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Offline kappa
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« Reply #33 - Posted 2014-01-30 11:14:33 »

Nice improvements.

Interestingly John Carmack mentioned awhile back that he reckons Nvidia's OpenGL extensions (not sure which ones in particular) can give similar improvements. If so and such changes are incorporated into future OpenGL core then could be a problem for Mantle adoption.
Offline theagentd
« Reply #34 - Posted 2014-01-30 12:55:30 »

When can we see LWJGL support? I have my Mantle dedicated computer ready to be put together. xd

Myomyomyo.
Offline Roquen
« Reply #35 - Posted 2014-01-30 13:27:00 »

I'm sure new contributors are always welcome.  Wink
Offline Spasi
« Reply #36 - Posted 2014-01-30 14:12:51 »

Interestingly John Carmack mentioned awhile back that he reckons Nvidia's OpenGL extensions (not sure which ones in particular) can give similar improvements. If so and such changes are incorporated into future OpenGL core then could be a problem for Mantle adoption.

You must be referring to this (this is all cross-platform btw, not Nvidia specific). Unfortunately, like Mantle, it's very limited in terms of hardware and driver support. And also requires a major rewrite of the rendering pipeline. I think it will all come down to availability and driver stability. Technically, it should be easier to write a robust driver for something like Mantle vs the beast that OpenGL is.

When can we see LWJGL support? I have my Mantle dedicated computer ready to be put together. xd

Whenever AMD releases a public specification, which I guess won't be soon. With the driver released today, Mantle will only work on R9/R7/Kavery parts. They'll probably wait for GCN 1.0 support first and also for any tweaks that will come up from the BF "beta test".

edit: The above is wrong. The driver will support Mantle on all GCN cards, but BF+Mantle will only run on GCN 1.1 (for now). Still no info on the Mantle spec.
Offline Spasi
« Reply #37 - Posted 2014-01-31 12:10:18 »

Mantle functions, the list.
Offline Spasi
« Reply #38 - Posted 2014-01-31 15:27:49 »

and an attempt to apply Mantle's design to OpenGL.
Offline theagentd
« Reply #39 - Posted 2014-02-01 01:36:42 »

Mantle functions, the list.
Lol. gl* ---> gr* The Japanese won't be able to differentiate between them when talking... xD Also, GRRRRR! Angry functions!

Cool list! Seems pretty simple actually!

I'm not sure I'm getting what he's trying to do? Redesign OpenGL to look more like Mantle? Would that actually bring any of the (performance) advantages of Mantle over to OpenGL?

Myomyomyo.
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Offline Spasi
« Reply #40 - Posted 2014-02-01 01:40:09 »

I'm not sure I'm getting what he's trying to do? Redesign OpenGL to look more like Mantle? Would that actually bring any of the (performance) advantages of Mantle over to OpenGL?

According to a previous tweet, "an order of magnitude perf bump is a reasonable target".
Offline theagentd
« Reply #41 - Posted 2014-02-01 15:38:43 »


Myomyomyo.
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