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  Advice for Game Designers  (Read 8994 times)
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Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 5


I always win!


« Posted 2011-04-30 00:52:45 »

http://youtu.be/Z5EohoNt96s

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 322
Projects: 2
Exp: 4 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #1 - Posted 2011-05-01 06:41:47 »

Don't go for a Computer Science degree? Why did they say that?

Offline avm1979
« Reply #2 - Posted 2011-05-09 16:08:53 »

Hah, just saw this. Programming may not directly help you do game design, but let's not forget that to actually get a job doing game design, you'll need to have a portfolio. You know, some tangible proof that your ideas about design are actually worth something. A design on paper can go wrong so many ways it's almost useless.

If you can't program at least a little, getting a portfolio together is going to be tough. What's the typical developer reaction to "hey guys, I'm a beginner game designer and have lots of great ideas, want to help me program them?" Cheesy

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 12


Game Engineer


« Reply #3 - Posted 2011-05-09 17:37:37 »

Almost every single game designer at my rather large (200+) game company was formally an artist, with one exception. And he used to make toys.  persecutioncomplex

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline Gudradain
« Reply #4 - Posted 2011-05-09 19:27:09 »

Almost every single game designer at my rather large (200+) game company was formally an artist, with one exception. And he used to make toys.  persecutioncomplex

Lol? What about a programmer with an artistic side? Artist is kinda a vague term : like anyone drawing/painting, playing music, dancing, comedian, ...
Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 322
Projects: 2
Exp: 4 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2011-05-09 22:32:14 »

So I should go with a Masters in Computer Science or is it pointless and I should rather focus my energy into being an indie game developer?

Offline spotco

Senior Newbie


Projects: 1



« Reply #6 - Posted 2011-05-10 05:19:55 »

So I should go with a Masters in Computer Science or is it pointless and I should rather focus my energy into being an indie game developer?
A masters (or even just a bachelor's) in CS/CE will almost guarentee a well-paying job after getting out, and if you find out you like that kind of stuff then more power to you.
But for the indie route, let's just say not everyone becomes a notch  Wink

Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 322
Projects: 2
Exp: 4 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2011-05-10 05:42:09 »

Yay thanks Smiley

Offline tberthel
« Reply #8 - Posted 2011-05-10 07:59:23 »

So I should go with a Masters in Computer Science or is it pointless and I should rather focus my energy into being an indie game developer?
A masters (or even just a bachelor's) in CS/CE will almost guarentee a well-paying job after getting out, and if you find out you like that kind of stuff then more power to you.
But for the indie route, let's just say not everyone becomes a notch  Wink

I promise it does not, "guarentee" shit.  I had to create my own job.  Many people left Computer Science in the U.S. relative to the population.  CS has over 17 percent unemployment.  New grads fell by 60% over a 2-3 year period last decade.  Teaching is not CS.  Learning is not CS.  Doing CS is CS, and little of it happens anymore in the U.S.

Price Per Parity for the average U.S. citizen has been flat for fallen for 39 of the last 40 years.  People in the Civil War had one year of PPP falling and many claimed it was the end of the world at the time.  Now we know differently.  It's not the end it is just really really really shitty until the government collapses, or until the people wake up and kill the **** f**ks in power.

Offline gouessej

« In padded room »



TUER


« Reply #9 - Posted 2011-05-10 11:04:55 »

A masters (or even just a bachelor's) in CS/CE will almost guarentee a well-paying job after getting out
It is still true in countries that do not adapt too much their diploma to very short-term demands of the industry (the others transform their diplomas into perishable means like food which is helpful for those who want to make young workers' positions insecure) but as the State is giving less and less money to public universities in France for example, some of them are tempted to create "garbage masters", very weak and useless masters used mainly to get some money. You have to take care. Tuition fees are increasing especially in the most famous Masters in UK and France Sad

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Mike

JGO Wizard


Medals: 69
Projects: 2
Exp: 5 years


Java guru wanabee


« Reply #10 - Posted 2011-05-10 11:52:54 »

It pretty much depends on where you live, in both Sweden and the Netherlands it's quite easy at the moment to get a nice job after a master's degree.

Mike

My current game, Minecraft meets Farmville and goes online Smiley
State of Fortune | Discussion thread @ JGO
Offline tberthel
« Reply #11 - Posted 2011-05-10 12:31:28 »

A masters (or even just a bachelor's) in CS/CE will almost guarentee a well-paying job after getting out
It is still true in countries that do not adapt too much their diploma to very short-term demands of the industry (the others transform their diplomas into perishable means like food which is helpful for those who want to make young workers' positions insecure) but as the State is giving less and less money to public universities in France for example, some of them are tempted to create "garbage masters", very weak and useless masters used mainly to get some money. You have to take care. Tuition fees are increasing especially in the most famous Masters in UK and France Sad

Virtually all education is used to get peoples money.

Offline tberthel
« Reply #12 - Posted 2011-05-10 12:43:07 »

It pretty much depends on where you live, in both Sweden and the Netherlands it's quite easy at the moment to get a nice job after a master's degree.

Mike

I could have 50 Masters degrees and still have a hard time getting work.  Some people are treated poorly and no matter what education they get.  Don't fooled by assholes claiming that education work ethic and smarts will make it, "quite easy" to get a nice job.  If it was really that easy I would be in one of those 2 countries now.  The real world is much different than that.  In fact you probably need a nice suit, nice hair, nice bank account, nice wife/husband, and other nice shit to pass the **** test.   Plus several weeks of interviews with assholes that want to tell you how great it will be to get f**ked by social redistribution if you worked for them.  Spread your lies elsewhere.

Offline Mike

JGO Wizard


Medals: 69
Projects: 2
Exp: 5 years


Java guru wanabee


« Reply #13 - Posted 2011-05-10 13:09:41 »

It pretty much depends on where you live, in both Sweden and the Netherlands it's quite easy at the moment to get a nice job after a master's degree.

Mike

I could have 50 Masters degrees and still have a hard time getting work.  Some people are treated poorly and no matter what education they get.  Don't fooled by assholes claiming that education work ethic and smarts will make it, "quite easy" to get a nice job.  If it was really that easy I would be in one of those 2 countries now.  The real world is much different than that.  In fact you probably need a nice suit, nice hair, nice bank account, nice wife/husband, and other nice shit to pass the **** test.   Plus several weeks of interviews with assholes that want to tell you how great it will be to get f**ked by social redistribution if you worked for them.  Spread your lies elsewhere.

Did someone wake up on the wrong side of their bed? Smiley

I can't talk for you but all of my student friends got nice jobs after their exam. Maybe it's that attitude of yours that is the problem...?

My current game, Minecraft meets Farmville and goes online Smiley
State of Fortune | Discussion thread @ JGO
Offline teletubo
« League of Dukes »

JGO Ninja


Medals: 48
Projects: 6
Exp: 8 years



« Reply #14 - Posted 2011-05-10 13:22:50 »

I could have 50 Masters degrees and still have a hard time getting work.  Some people are treated poorly and no matter what education they get. 

Hmm .. right .


Offline ReBirth
« Reply #15 - Posted 2011-05-10 13:31:28 »

Whatever. I want my master CE and a well going indie project. work? let's see later Wink

Offline Mike

JGO Wizard


Medals: 69
Projects: 2
Exp: 5 years


Java guru wanabee


« Reply #16 - Posted 2011-05-10 13:40:18 »

Whatever. I want my master CE and a well going indie project. work? let's see later Wink

Enjoy that mentality while you can, it gets more difficult when you get a family Smiley

Mike

My current game, Minecraft meets Farmville and goes online Smiley
State of Fortune | Discussion thread @ JGO
Offline tberthel
« Reply #17 - Posted 2011-05-10 13:58:30 »

It pretty much depends on where you live, in both Sweden and the Netherlands it's quite easy at the moment to get a nice job after a master's degree.

Mike

I could have 50 Masters degrees and still have a hard time getting work.  Some people are treated poorly and no matter what education they get.  Don't fooled by assholes claiming that education work ethic and smarts will make it, "quite easy" to get a nice job.  If it was really that easy I would be in one of those 2 countries now.  The real world is much different than that.  In fact you probably need a nice suit, nice hair, nice bank account, nice wife/husband, and other nice shit to pass the **** test.   Plus several weeks of interviews with assholes that want to tell you how great it will be to get f**ked by social redistribution if you worked for them.  Spread your lies elsewhere.

Did someone wake up on the wrong side of their bed? Smiley

I can't talk for you but all of my student friends got nice jobs after their exam. Maybe it's that attitude of yours that is the problem...?

Facts != Attitude

In fact people with the worst attitudes like Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Obama, Clinton, Bush and others are the ones that have it "quite easy" getting work.  The people that don't have a poor attitude are the ones getting screwed.  So don't give me your attitude crap.  I am for equal rights and liberty not German, Chinese, U.S., Australian, or other Fascist Police State lies that create a poor job market.  It took me 10+ years to create a job when no one wanted to give me one.  Now they can take their Fascist lies about how everyone that works hard and is smart has it, "quite easy" getting a job and shove it.  10% + unemployment in most of the world does not make it "quite easy" for anyone especially hard working Scientists unless you already have money or support social redistribution or both.

Offline pitbuller
« Reply #18 - Posted 2011-05-10 15:15:23 »

Programming is team work at bigger scale. You need to get along with team. You allways get work if you are good programmer and good team player.
Offline cylab

JGO Knight


Medals: 34



« Reply #19 - Posted 2011-05-10 15:33:32 »

In my experience you need the following to get you anywhere

- market yourself but staying true to your opinions
- treat people the way you want to be treated yourself
- stay optimistic about own options
- know your crap (by experience!)
- leave a good impression

but the most important one (or maybe the abstract of the above):

- networking: make yourself known and be not afraid to use your connections to bring you forward

I can't really grasp what you mean with social redistribution (due to language barrier), so maybe it's exactly what you are criticizing.

Face it - it's a world full of people, so you have to find some that help you to get a foot in the door. You want to avoid standard recruition processes (mass-tests, mass-interviews etc.) as much as possible.

Also in the end you probably will need a degree to get you decent money (or at least more money compared to the people doing the same without a degree)

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline gouessej

« In padded room »



TUER


« Reply #20 - Posted 2011-05-10 16:16:50 »

A masters (or even just a bachelor's) in CS/CE will almost guarentee a well-paying job after getting out
It is still true in countries that do not adapt too much their diploma to very short-term demands of the industry (the others transform their diplomas into perishable means like food which is helpful for those who want to make young workers' positions insecure) but as the State is giving less and less money to public universities in France for example, some of them are tempted to create "garbage masters", very weak and useless masters used mainly to get some money. You have to take care. Tuition fees are increasing especially in the most famous Masters in UK and France Sad

Virtually all education is used to get peoples money.
I don't think so. I come from a very poor family. I had to pay between 0 and 4 euro per year when I studied in the (French public) universities. I admit that education is often seen as merchandise, as a good but it is something I denounce because I think the access to education should be a right for all.

As Mickelukas and me said, it pretty much depends on where you live. I mean that the master degree is still very useful to find a job in some countries whereas it is not really useful in others because education systems are quite different all over the world. We put the same words on different diplomas since the LMD/EHEA reform. In some European countries, especially in France, the diploma is something that belongs to the social protections, it is used as a guarantee of salary whereas it is quite different in UK and in USA, you're chosen if you can get the job done whatever the diploma but you have less social guarantees, am I wrong?

Offline tberthel
« Reply #21 - Posted 2011-05-10 19:27:40 »

In my experience you need the following to get you anywhere

- market yourself but staying true to your opinions
- treat people the way you want to be treated yourself
- stay optimistic about own options
- know your crap (by experience!)
- leave a good impression

but the most important one (or maybe the abstract of the above):

- networking: make yourself known and be not afraid to use your connections to bring you forward

I can't really grasp what you mean with social redistribution (due to language barrier), so maybe it's exactly what you are criticizing.

Face it - it's a world full of people, so you have to find some that help you to get a foot in the door. You want to avoid standard recruition processes (mass-tests, mass-interviews etc.) as much as possible.

Also in the end you probably will need a degree to get you decent money (or at least more money compared to the people doing the same without a degree)


I would like to believe what you say as truth.  Sadly it is just total BS you have been given.  It sounds all nice and wonderful until you actually see who has the good paying jobs.  In the U.S. 400 people that all have 1 billion or more from redistribution also have more than half of the wealth of the U.S.  Government employees account for most of the good paying jobs in the U.S. like GM, Post Office, Verizon, and such.  

I think the person saying that everyone with a BSCS has easy access to work made me angry so I will let the German like propaganda flow since I can't stop the tide of Fascism in this thread much less in this world.

I just didn't want everyone that gets a BSCS to think they will get a job because many good ones don't get CS jobs.

BTW, networking is not a CS skill.  It is more of a Hitler, Obama, Clinton like skill.

Staying true to the truth is probably why I never could get good work.  In the real world clipping coupons for the Fascist leadership is the way to go.  That is to say not be on the redistribution shit list and also work for the government like at USPS.

Social Redistrubution: I am old and probably will never have a job where I don't get screwed by House Mortgage Deduction, Sub prime mortgage, FHA, Freddy May, or the countless other Fascist programs bent on exterminating people like me.  Some people call it taxes even though the constitution only allows for expenditures on the people for coining money, defending against enemies foreign and domestic, and general welfare and not for Fascist crap like HUD, Energy Department, SS, SSSG, ATF, and other crap that will never help me.

I will never own a home and I will never get married, but I will build a Robot Army and Fascist can go screw themselves when I finish it.

Offline tberthel
« Reply #22 - Posted 2011-05-10 20:06:30 »

A masters (or even just a bachelor's) in CS/CE will almost guarentee a well-paying job after getting out
It is still true in countries that do not adapt too much their diploma to very short-term demands of the industry (the others transform their diplomas into perishable means like food which is helpful for those who want to make young workers' positions insecure) but as the State is giving less and less money to public universities in France for example, some of them are tempted to create "garbage masters", very weak and useless masters used mainly to get some money. You have to take care. Tuition fees are increasing especially in the most famous Masters in UK and France Sad

Virtually all education is used to get peoples money.
I don't think so. I come from a very poor family. I had to pay between 0 and 4 euro per year when I studied in the (French public) universities. I admit that education is often seen as merchandise, as a good but it is something I denounce because I think the access to education should be a right for all.

As Mickelukas and me said, it pretty much depends on where you live. I mean that the master degree is still very useful to find a job in some countries whereas it is not really useful in others because education systems are quite different all over the world. We put the same words on different diplomas since the LMD/EHEA reform. In some European countries, especially in France, the diploma is something that belongs to the social protections, it is used as a guarantee of salary whereas it is quite different in UK and in USA, you're chosen if you can get the job done whatever the diploma but you have less social guarantees, am I wrong?

So, your telling me that professors have no use for money?  They don't eat?  They hate all transportation?  They don't like clothes?

It is about the money and always will be on earth.  You are clearly wrong.  Universities are a seemingly endless money machine through government redistribution for a few wealthy people.  As they get more and more expensive in the last throws of world wide Fascism/National Socialism they will feed more and more on the poor that must pay for it and will never benefit from it even if they get a Phd or 3.

It's not about who can get the job done. It's about all the other stuff that I already stated.  If I was wrong then the 400 richest people would also be producing the most.  Did you know that 80% of Billionaires never earned a college education and have received more than a billion in government subsidies?

Offline namrog84

JGO Ninja


Medals: 46
Projects: 4


Keep programming!


« Reply #23 - Posted 2011-05-10 20:31:21 »

My 2 cents and misc ramble.

What works for others, may not necessarily work for you.

College has its benefits, but it also has some negatives.

Some people will be successful regardless of college.


Do what you enjoy FIRST,  everything else comes secondary.  If you enjoy making levels or want to make a level editor, then go make levels. If you want to program and make games, then go do that.   

I work at a university, although I don't work directly with academics, I often ask the same few questions to a lot of young people. 
They say they want to be an architect.  I ask them if they have ever drawn buildings or any architectural rough drafts (for fun) prior to college classes, they say no.
Artists, usually have made lots of art.

I am a mechanical engineer and I often have asked and found out most other engineers enjoyed taking things a part as a kid to see how they worked. Or trying to build new things.  Getting down and dirty and hands on.  From Legos to VCRs to old cameras.


Regardless of whats "available" to you, you can always pursue what you enjoy.   Heck, there was a guy on TED not that long ago, that lived in poverty stricken area and he somehow managed to build a windmill, water processing, mini generator and a variety of other things from misc trash/garbage.  He did fortunately get to see a little bit of the internet or some other designs to inspire him.   Most of the people here have plenty of access to free information and free programs( open source, etc...)


I personally would say college might be a waste for some, but not all.
I think the saying and argument pro vs con college often overlooks what their degree is in.  The largest number of graduating students at my university(40,000+) are pursuing a degree, in a job field that doesn't necessarily require a bachelors(4 year).

A lot of people feel that the college degree is all that they need.  This may have been true in the past. But not anymore.
Make a blog, make a website, make applications, make art, make music, make "mods" for games,  make software,  contribute to existing projects, become active on your "interests" online and local communities(aka JGO, java4k, gamedev, etc..)  Constantly be producing and trying to get recognition, as previous people said. Networking is very important.

Here is the past and the present.
30 years ago... earn bachelors degree,  apply 7 places,  get 5 interviews, get 4 job offers.  Take good job.

now.... earn bachelors degree, apply 150+ places(with several variations of resumes/CV to better meet the particular job), have several internships, good references,  get 3-10 interviews,  maybe get 1-2 job offers.

Unless you have networking, and know someone, you are going to have to "hit the pavement" and work hard to find a job, especially nowadays.   This is thanks to the internet.  Companies can have 1000x people apply easily, in which human resources can easily filter out hundreds of candidates with simple filters(modified resume for job keywords!!!)
Which means that if you want to get noticed, unless you have EXCEPTIONAL history/experience,  you are just going to have to apply to 100x as many places. Until you get lucky.   

Unless you make a name for yourself, or know someone...

"Experience is what you get when you did not get what you wanted"
Offline gouessej

« In padded room »



TUER


« Reply #24 - Posted 2011-05-10 21:57:07 »

So, your telling me that professors have no use for money?  They don't eat?  They hate all transportation?  They don't like clothes?

It is about the money and always will be on earth.  You are clearly wrong.  Universities are a seemingly endless money machine through government redistribution for a few wealthy people.  As they get more and more expensive in the last throws of world wide Fascism/National Socialism they will feed more and more on the poor that must pay for it and will never benefit from it even if they get a Phd or 3.

It's not about who can get the job done. It's about all the other stuff that I already stated.  If I was wrong then the 400 richest people would also be producing the most.  Did you know that 80% of Billionaires never earned a college education and have received more than a billion in government subsidies?
I don't say that your professors have no use for money. I mainly agree with what you say about universities, it is used to put a lot of people into debt, to drive them more docile but this is more true in some countries (USA?) and less true in some others (France, Sweden). What worked for me cannot work for you because we live in 2 very different countries.

I admit you're right. The richest people are not those who produce most. Sorry, I wasn't precise enough. What you describe is a consequence of the neoliberalism. The liberals use the State to transfer resources (money) from the poor people to the rich people Sad Instead of breaking the State, the neoliberals use it to serve their own interests.

In France, things are quite different as the universities had become almost free of charge for most of the students in 1981. The Welfare State has not yet been completely broken here. That is why I understand that what worked for me cannot work everywhere. The perversion of the higher education area is a reality but with local nuances.

Offline cylab

JGO Knight


Medals: 34



« Reply #25 - Posted 2011-05-11 02:48:58 »

(...)
I think the person saying that everyone with a BSCS has easy access to work made me angry so I will let the German like propaganda flow since I can't stop the tide of Fascism in this thread much less in this world.
(...)
I will never own a home and I will never get married, but I will build a Robot Army and Fascist can go screw themselves when I finish it.

WTF - you are an angry man.  Shocked

BTW, networking is not a CS skill.  It is more of a Hitler, Obama, Clinton like skill.

LOL, never heard Hitler and Obama in one sentence. Yeah, even politicians or dictators need to get along with other people (sometimes). In this sense you certainly are right.

And you are also right that the "system" oppresses people is unfair and greedy. But facing this with anger, cynism and sarcasm doesn't make live more joyfull, does it?

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline cylab

JGO Knight


Medals: 34



« Reply #26 - Posted 2011-05-11 03:03:40 »

Unless you have networking, and know someone, you are going to have to "hit the pavement" and work hard to find a job, especially nowadays.   This is thanks to the internet.  Companies can have 1000x people apply easily, in which human resources can easily filter out hundreds of candidates with simple filters(modified resume for job keywords!!!)
Which means that if you want to get noticed, unless you have EXCEPTIONAL history/experience,  you are just going to have to apply to 100x as many places. Until you get lucky.   

Unless you make a name for yourself, or know someone...

I would emphasis on the last one. Try to find a side door. Do volunteer work and internships. If you decide to go to college, it is also a great place to get connections.

As I said you don't want to go through standard (mass-)recruiting processes. There are just too many applicants and chances are, you get filtered out of the applicants right at the start because of some automatic criteria filter (I implemented some, so I know).

I work in IT for nearly 15 years now and I've never written a single application.

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline tberthel
« Reply #27 - Posted 2011-05-11 05:46:07 »

Unless you have networking, and know someone, you are going to have to "hit the pavement" and work hard to find a job, especially nowadays.   This is thanks to the internet.  Companies can have 1000x people apply easily, in which human resources can easily filter out hundreds of candidates with simple filters(modified resume for job keywords!!!)
Which means that if you want to get noticed, unless you have EXCEPTIONAL history/experience,  you are just going to have to apply to 100x as many places. Until you get lucky.   

Unless you make a name for yourself, or know someone...

I would emphasis on the last one. Try to find a side door. Do volunteer work and internships. If you decide to go to college, it is also a great place to get connections.

As I said you don't want to go through standard (mass-)recruiting processes. There are just too many applicants and chances are, you get filtered out of the applicants right at the start because of some automatic criteria filter (I implemented some, so I know).

I work in IT for nearly 15 years now and I've never written a single application.

That is all true cylab, but according to your description it is hard and not easy.  I have a BSCS and I have 10 years of software development.  The process you describe failed for me so long that I actually make money coding on my own, but it is hardly good pay relative to the Fascist getting billions for nothing.  As such I stick with the truth and as you described it is hard as hell to get work in CS. 

Also, if you not doing CS work then you don't have a CS job.  IT != CS  Teaching != CS The original poster regarding, "quite easy" jobs was full of shit.  I have 600,000+ lines of my own code and several hundreds of thousands for employers.  I have a million lines of code under my belt, and I will code another million for my robot army.

Offline tberthel
« Reply #28 - Posted 2011-05-11 06:21:08 »

So, your telling me that professors have no use for money?  They don't eat?  They hate all transportation?  They don't like clothes?

It is about the money and always will be on earth.  You are clearly wrong.  Universities are a seemingly endless money machine through government redistribution for a few wealthy people.  As they get more and more expensive in the last throws of world wide Fascism/National Socialism they will feed more and more on the poor that must pay for it and will never benefit from it even if they get a Phd or 3.

It's not about who can get the job done. It's about all the other stuff that I already stated.  If I was wrong then the 400 richest people would also be producing the most.  Did you know that 80% of Billionaires never earned a college education and have received more than a billion in government subsidies?
I don't say that your professors have no use for money. I mainly agree with what you say about universities, it is used to put a lot of people into debt, to drive them more docile but this is more true in some countries (USA?) and less true in some others (France, Sweden). What worked for me cannot work for you because we live in 2 very different countries.

I admit you're right. The richest people are not those who produce most. Sorry, I wasn't precise enough. What you describe is a consequence of the neoliberalism. The liberals use the State to transfer resources (money) from the poor people to the rich people Sad Instead of breaking the State, the neoliberals use it to serve their own interests.

In France, things are quite different as the universities had become almost free of charge for most of the students in 1981. The Welfare State has not yet been completely broken here. That is why I understand that what worked for me cannot work everywhere. The perversion of the higher education area is a reality but with local nuances.

I agree with what you stated about neo-liberalism.

I won't comment on University differences as it has nothing to do with, "quite easy"  CS jobs for Computer Scientists anywhere.


Offline cylab

JGO Knight


Medals: 34



« Reply #29 - Posted 2011-05-11 10:15:05 »

That is all true cylab, but according to your description it is hard and not easy.  I have a BSCS and I have 10 years of software development.  The process you describe failed for me so long that I actually make money coding on my own, but it is hardly good pay relative to the Fascist getting billions for nothing.  As such I stick with the truth and as you described it is hard as hell to get work in CS. 

I never said it is easy. I just described what works for me and almost every other I work with. Actually I hardly know any people that got into IT by regularly applying for a job.

But most people I know working in (more or less) well paid jobs have a degree, because it is an indication (at least in germany), that you are willing (and capable) to get things done. It also is an indication that you are trained to learn new things, which in IT/CS is one of the most important things if you want to stay in business. In fact it doesn't even matter in what you have a degree - I for example have one in electrical engineering.

About the Fascist getting billions: there is always someone that is richer or more successful than you. It really doesn't matter if it is because of them being smarter, more ruthless or the system being unfair. You have to live with it and find your own way.

Actually you are doing exactly this, so there isn't much to discuss here, despite my advice to take things lighter and enjoy what you are doing. You can't change the world, but you can change your own surroundings for the better. Having a more positive attitude also helps. At least for me.

Also, if you not doing CS work then you don't have a CS job.  IT != CS  Teaching != CS The original poster regarding, "quite easy" jobs was full of shit.  I have 600,000+ lines of my own code and several hundreds of thousands for employers.  I have a million lines of code under my belt, and I will code another million for my robot army.

I do work from CS over system administration to project management and back again. I implemented Apps in Java, C#, C++, Perl, PHP, VB, you name it. So I think I at least partly have a CS job. However, all I've written applies for nearly all jobs I can think of.

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
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