Java-Gaming.org    
Featured games (81)
games approved by the League of Dukes
Games in Showcase (499)
Games in Android Showcase (118)
games submitted by our members
Games in WIP (568)
games currently in development
News: Read the Java Gaming Resources, or peek at the official Java tutorials
 
    Home     Help   Search   Login   Register   
Pages: [1]
  ignore  |  Print  
  4x design question  (Read 3081 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline MindOfCorruption97

Senior Newbie





« Posted 2012-08-30 20:48:28 »

For a 4x game, should the map be somewhat symmetrical or irregular. By irregular I mean the stars are organized in random, like the map is in no way symmetrical. By symmetrical I mean that both sides of the map are basically copies of one another.

* = stars.
Symmetrical:

*   * * *   *  Stars are symmetrical and even on both sides.
** *    * **
*   * * *   *

Irregular:
* *   *    *  Stars are in no way symmetrical and completely random.
  ** * * *
*        ***

Chaos is Beatiful...
For without Chaos the world will never spin...
Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 133
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #1 - Posted 2012-08-30 22:09:45 »

Symmetrical would get a bit boring, I think...
Offline UprightPath
« Reply #2 - Posted 2012-08-30 22:43:30 »

This is a major issue in a lot of games.

Symmetrical: Attempts to provide some sort of 'balance' between people if they start in opposite areas. This can be good if it's a competitive (Meaning against other players) since it allows for less issues dealing with 'starting balance'. You both have the opportunity to get the same stuff, so if you don't, it's an issue of playing badly, etc.

Irregular: Allows for more fun/interesting layouts, especially if there's a resource system within the game. If you start out with a lot, you're lucky, but you're also more of a target, etc. However, it can lead to the difference between a steam-roll game and one that takes forever to get through. Think Civilization: If you start out near early age resources, you can advance quicker and steam-roll through. If you don't, you can still win, but it's a long, hard slog.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline philfrei
« Reply #3 - Posted 2012-08-31 04:21:03 »

Wouldn't symmetry make the first X (exploration) a lot less relevant?

"Greetings my friends! We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives!" -- The Amazing Criswell
Offline Grunnt

JGO Wizard


Medals: 70
Projects: 8
Exp: 5 years


Complex != complicated


« Reply #4 - Posted 2012-08-31 07:40:06 »

For a 4x game, should the map be somewhat symmetrical or irregular. By irregular I mean the stars are organized in random, like the map is in no way symmetrical. By symmetrical I mean that both sides of the map are basically copies of one another.

I'm not sure what kind of space strategy game you are making, but I think you may need a different kind of "symmetry" instead of a symmetric layout of stars. One thing that is often bugging me in space 4X games is that you may have basically lost at the beginning of the game since there's no inhabitable/rich/good planets nearby. Maybe an option is to guarantee somehow that each player has a number of suitable planets nearby? (as in: create some) But then again, some people like that kind of randomness. Maybe you  can let the players choose?

Offline Oskuro

JGO Knight


Medals: 39
Exp: 6 years


Coding in Style


« Reply #5 - Posted 2012-08-31 08:29:48 »

Player customization is often a must in these games.

I'd also think about symmetry in more levels than just the position of starts/planets. You could, for example, have a symmetrically balanced star map where the parts with lesser star density have better planets or resources, while dense star clusters are composed of small resources in greater number.

Visually, the map will look asymmetrical and interesting, even though internally it is symmetrical.

It helps to assign everything in your game a certain numerical value, and add it all up to see if it is balanced. Kind of like placing objects of different sizes and densities on an scale.

Offline philfrei
« Reply #6 - Posted 2012-08-31 08:52:52 »

Here is an idea for achieving both variety and a controlled distribution of resources: use some form of Gradient Noise as your randomizing function, e.g., Simplex noise or Improved Perlin noise.

"Greetings my friends! We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives!" -- The Amazing Criswell
Offline _Al3x

Senior Member


Medals: 7


Indie Games FTW!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2012-08-31 13:44:06 »

Why not divide the map in 2/3/4/n players, throw a random "stars" number per player, randomize the positions of those in each sector of the map, so every player gets the same amount of stars in his sector and none of them are equally to another (at least not by locations of stars). You do understand what I mean? Smiley

Offline MindOfCorruption97

Senior Newbie





« Reply #8 - Posted 2012-09-01 19:33:47 »

So I guess the map's attributes should be player's choice in 4x games.

Chaos is Beatiful...
For without Chaos the world will never spin...
Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #9 - Posted 2012-09-02 02:42:52 »

So I guess the map's attributes should be player's choice in 4x games.
Only for "custom map".  Don't make the player customize attributes out of the box, just aim for some sensible distribution like some of the suggestions above.  Also consider that you can scan for good player starting positions too, so it doesn't have to be done 100% at map generation time.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Grunnt

JGO Wizard


Medals: 70
Projects: 8
Exp: 5 years


Complex != complicated


« Reply #10 - Posted 2012-09-02 10:21:49 »

So I guess the map's attributes should be player's choice in 4x games.

Not necessarily, but it is often good to have some choice. However, I must say that sometimes I find that too many settings takes me out of the immersion of a 4X space strategy game. Especially when I have to choose my opponents (and their AI settings), that takes away much of the fun of discovery.

Offline Gornova

Senior Member


Medals: 1
Projects: 3



« Reply #11 - Posted 2012-10-24 14:20:28 »

take a look here: http://slick.javaunlimited.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4218&p=24535
and here: http://www.java-gaming.org/topics/building-a-4x-game-wip-with-pictures/24796/view.html

To have star in random positions, you could use Delauney Triangulation, see here: http://coffee2code.blogspot.it/2011/11/has-anyone-ever-heard-of-delaunay.html

Blog | Last game Drone Defense 0.2 | In progress Drone Defense
Pages: [1]
  ignore  |  Print  
 
 
You cannot reply to this message, because it is very, very old.

 

Add your game by posting it in the WIP section,
or publish it in Showcase.

The first screenshot will be displayed as a thumbnail.

Pippogeek (40 views)
2014-09-24 16:13:29

Pippogeek (31 views)
2014-09-24 16:12:22

Pippogeek (21 views)
2014-09-24 16:12:06

Grunnt (47 views)
2014-09-23 14:38:19

radar3301 (29 views)
2014-09-21 23:33:17

BurntPizza (65 views)
2014-09-21 02:42:18

BurntPizza (37 views)
2014-09-21 01:30:30

moogie (44 views)
2014-09-21 00:26:15

UprightPath (53 views)
2014-09-20 20:14:06

BurntPizza (55 views)
2014-09-19 03:14:18
List of Learning Resources
by Longor1996
2014-08-16 10:40:00

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-08-05 19:33:27

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:20:17

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:19:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:29:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:26:06

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 11:54:12

HotSpot Options
by dleskov
2014-07-08 01:59:08
java-gaming.org is not responsible for the content posted by its members, including references to external websites, and other references that may or may not have a relation with our primarily gaming and game production oriented community. inquiries and complaints can be sent via email to the info‑account of the company managing the website of java‑gaming.org
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Managed by Enhanced Four Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!