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  Puppytron!  (Read 13342 times)
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Offline jbanes

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Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #30 - Posted 2005-01-03 22:56:09 »

Hey Cas, if I can make a suggestion? Ditch the "<PARAM NAME="codebase" VALUE="applets/">" tag. It was really intended for unarchived applications, and never really worked right. Instead, change your applet tag as follows:

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<applet code="puppytron.Puppytron" archive="applets/puppytron.jar,applets/common.jar,applets/sound.jar,applets/timer.jar" 
width="256px" height="256px" name="PuppyTron" alt="More games to come!">You need the Java Virtual Machine to play Puppytron.
                  <param name="width" value="256"/>
                  <param name="height" value="256"/>
                  <param name="framerate" value="60"/>
                  <a href="http://www.java.com">Get the Java Virtual Machine now!</a>
</applet>


A few other things:

1. Your framerate cannot be 60. The resolution of Windows under 1.4.x is 10 ms. Thus your choices for framerate are 100, 50, and 25 fps. This is probably causing some of your slowdown. Since this is an Applet, I'd suggest quadrupaling the speed and setting the framerate to 25fps.

2. Pool some objects or something. The poor GC is absolutely thrashing.

3. Let me know if you have any questions on GAGE. I'm here to help. :-)

Edit: Almost forgot:

4. The webstart applet won't launch. It doesn't seem to like your certificate. I'd actually stop signing it if I were you. It'll just confuse people, and you don't need the permissions anyway. :-)

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #31 - Posted 2005-01-05 20:48:32 »

The new version is neat. The bigger playing area is a good thing and difficulty ramping seems to be also better (steeper).

Some users (I asked some to play it heh) were irritated by the controls, because they strongly assoziated the cursors with movement [whereas I think it's "natural" to have direction stuff on the left side]. So maybe add a way to switch those around.

The current version doesn't work with 1.4 because you're using java.util.Queue, which is a new 1.5 thingy.

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #32 - Posted 2005-01-05 22:06:18 »

Woohoo 2d place. Ye, it feels pretty good know and it gets quite thrilling. Good work Smiley

Oh and it's so much more fun with a gamepad (via keytojoy).

For the suggestion list... add a pause button (p+pause). I know that it pauses the game automatically on focus lost, but most people won't try that.

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
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Offline blahblahblahh

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Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #33 - Posted 2005-01-05 23:23:15 »

Quote

Some users (I asked some to play it heh) were irritated by the controls, because they strongly assoziated the cursors with movement [whereas I think it's "natural" to have direction stuff on the left side].


I only played it once and quickly stopped primarily because of this. Cursors === movement, no question about it. Anything else, whislt it may have benefits for a particular game, is "freaky" and should not be the default.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #34 - Posted 2005-01-06 00:09:23 »

>Cursors === movement

Too much php lately? Smiley

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline princec

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« Reply #35 - Posted 2005-01-06 08:50:28 »

Ok, will add a toggle & pause mode, and fix 1.4 compatibility.

Cas Smiley

Offline tom
« Reply #36 - Posted 2005-01-06 10:32:18 »

The Queue thing seems to be fixed, but it still don't work on 1.4:
Quote

java.util.LinkedList.poll()Ljava/lang/Object;
     at net.puppygames.applet.Keyboard.next(Keyboard.java:101)
     at puppytron.TitleScreen.postTick(TitleScreen.java:81)
     at net.puppygames.applet.Screen.tick(Screen.java:114)
     at net.puppygames.applet.Game$1.run(Game.java:264)

Offline princec

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« Reply #37 - Posted 2005-01-06 11:17:47 »

Whoops. Fixed.

Cas Smiley

Offline nonnus29

Senior Duke




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #38 - Posted 2005-01-06 12:01:59 »

From the link in the first post I get this:

Quote

oad: class puppytron.Puppytron not found.

java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: puppytron.Puppytron

     at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source)

     at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)

     at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)

     at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)

     at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadCode(Unknown Source)

     at sun.applet.AppletPanel.createApplet(Unknown Source)

     at sun.plugin.AppletViewer.createApplet(Unknown Source)

     at sun.applet.AppletPanel.runLoader(Unknown Source)

     at sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(Unknown Source)

     at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Caused by: java.io.IOException: open HTTP connection failed.

     at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.getBytes(Unknown Source)

     at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.access$100(Unknown Source)

     at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)

     at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)

     ... 10 more

Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #39 - Posted 2005-01-06 12:25:45 »

Quote
From the link in the first post I get this:


That's because Cas deleted the applet. You have to use the Webstart link to play it.

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #40 - Posted 2005-01-06 14:10:56 »

Hmm... I just saw it on a machine which is about 6 times faster than mine (it gets 13-18k fps in TinyRivers)... and it stuttered alot :-/

Since the machine made that odd "tons of tiny textures uploading HF noise" all the time I guess it ran in non accelerated mode.

So... did you that copy it over thing, which you need to do for 1.4.x if you want a managed image?

Like:
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GraphicsDevice device = GraphicsEnvironment.getLocalGraphicsEnvironment().getDefaultScreenDevice();
GraphicsConfiguration gc = device.getDefaultConfiguration();
[...]
private BufferedImage loadImage(String path, int transparency) throws IOException
{
      BufferedImage i = ImageIO.read(new BufferedInputStream(getClass().getResourceAsStream(path)));
      Graphics2D tg;
      BufferedImage c = gc.createCompatibleImage(i.getWidth(null),i.getHeight(null),transparency);
      tg = (Graphics2D)c.getGraphics();
      tg.setComposite(AlphaComposite.Src);
      tg.drawImage(i,0,0,null);
      tg.dispose();
      return c;
}


"transparency" is either Transparency.OPAQUE, Transparency.BITMASKED or Transparency.TRANSLUCENT (bad one).

With 1.5 you get managed images by default, which would explain the performance differences. [I don't really believe it's a GC thingy]

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #41 - Posted 2005-01-06 14:24:09 »

Quote
Hmm... I just saw it on a machine which is about 6 times faster than mine (it gets 13-18k fps in TinyRivers)... and it stuttered alot :-/


Was this machine running Linux by any chance? When I tested Puppytron on Linux, I noticed that the drawRect() calls were not hardware accelerated, and were seriously slowing things down. As soon as a bad guy finished warping in, the game would get really fast. Then as soon as another warp effect started, the game would slow down again. Go figure.

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #42 - Posted 2005-01-06 14:47:43 »

Nah... it's a win2k machine (me should have said that). But most 1.4.x users (all?) have that problem.

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline princec

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« Reply #43 - Posted 2005-01-06 15:30:12 »

The warp rects were alpha blended originally but not any more. Now the only alpha blending going on is when I fade the points you get for killing a robot, and I might even turn that off too.

And as for sound... seems buggered everywhere. I might just use LWJGL.

Hm.

Maybe I should just make it LWJGL anyway? Then I could run it at 60fps reliably on just about anything...

Cas Smiley

Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #44 - Posted 2005-01-06 15:53:58 »

Meh... Shinji is a monster Tongue

Just thought... great score... n... f*** 3rd place. Tomorrow his nick has filled the whole list with a top score of 1000000+ (if he continues like this).

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #45 - Posted 2005-01-06 15:56:26 »

Quote
The warp rects were alpha blended originally but not any more. Now the only alpha blending going on is when I fade the points you get for killing a robot, and I might even turn that off too.


Ah. That explains it. :-)

Quote
And as for sound... seems buggered everywhere. I might just use LWJGL.


It seems to work fine on all of the machines I've tested. What problems are you seeing?

Quote
Maybe I should just make it LWJGL anyway? Then I could run it at 60fps reliably on just about anything...


*cough*feature creep*cough* Besides, why would you want to miss out on the joys of Java2D coding? ;-)

One other consideration is that LWJGL would significantly increase the size of the download.

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline nonnus29

Senior Duke




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #46 - Posted 2005-01-06 16:50:01 »

Quote


That's because Cas deleted the applet. You have to use the Webstart link to play it.


Oh, well thanks Cas.
Offline princec

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« Reply #47 - Posted 2005-01-06 17:44:05 »

Applet's back, but doesn't seem to work in Opera. Sod it. Applets suck.

LWJGL would only add 200kb to the game which is only half a meg anyway, double the framerate, and give me decent sound, proper alpha blended effects, etc., etc.... come to think of it this is why we made the bloody thing in the first place, to get past all these stupid Java flaws :/

Cas Smiley

Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #48 - Posted 2005-01-06 18:14:57 »

Quote
Applet's back, but doesn't seem to work in Opera.


Are you sure it's not your copy of Opera? It worked on Windows' Opera when I tested it there, and it loaded on Opera for Mac just now. (Unfortunately, Opera 4 Mac uses the Java 1.3 plugin on 10.2. Eww.)

Quote
Sod it. Applets suck.


Well, I agree with you there. However, I do think you're on the right track. Having Applets on your homepage makes it more interesting to visitors, and encourages them to come back.

Quote
LWJGL would only add 200kb to the game which is only half a meg anyway,


Which would suck for those on dial-up. Half a meg takes about a minute and a half to download on a speedy modem connection.

Quote
double the framerate, and give me decent sound, proper alpha blended effects, etc., etc.... come to think of it this is why we made the bloody thing in the first place, to get past all these stupid Java flaws :/


Oh boo, hoo. Applet game designers have been working around these problems for a long time. Just stop thinking like you're coding a GL app, and you'll be just fine. :-)

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline tom
« Reply #49 - Posted 2005-01-06 20:49:00 »

From the exception it seems like ImageIO don't work with Opera. Easy to fix. Load the images with awt. Why don't you just make it 1.1 compatible?

Offline princec

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Medals: 407
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« Reply #50 - Posted 2005-01-07 09:02:05 »

Well, there's actually an interesting dynamic to the whole applet thing. I have, guess what... an ulterior motive!

Why don't I write for 1.1? Well, we have to look at why I'm bothering to write these applets in the first place. There is a certain element of "I like writing games! It's fun!" going on, for sure, as well as a bit of "Look how cool we are!". But mostly it's because I want quality traffic to Puppygames.net. By "quality" what we're talking about is surfers who might pay for something. I don't want to be just another website full of shite applets supported by advertising. That market is nicely taken care of already by many, many sites.

So firstly the new applets are 1.4 compatible only, apart from Puppy Invaders. That filters out quite a lot of people running MSVM, which is fine because it's irritatingly restrictive over what you can and can't do.

Secondly, if I start using OpenGL, this filters out all the people who can't run our full games anyway, so hopefully they won't waste our bandwidth downloading them either. Bearing in mind that we're shifting our attention to MacOS X.

Thirdly, using LWJGL, our applets will rock Smiley

I really don't like applets myself. I don't enjoy coding them much because of the stupid restrictions and I sure as hell hate pages that spring them up on me as 90% of the time they don't even run. (Usually Invalid Bytecode, ClassNotFound, or grey rectangle syndrome).

Cas Smiley

Offline Daire Quinlan

Junior Duke





« Reply #51 - Posted 2005-01-07 11:22:32 »

Quote


I really don't like applets myself. I don't enjoy coding them much because of the stupid restrictions and I sure as hell hate pages that spring them up on me as 90% of the time they don't even run. (Usually Invalid Bytecode, ClassNotFound, or grey rectangle syndrome).


Actually I was just thinking about this (grey rectangle syndrome) the other day. Both in cases where the applet refuses to work altogether, and in cases where the applet is big enough that it takes seemingly forever (IE longer than about 10 seconds !) to download. Pop up any flash or shockwave game worth its salt and you immediately get a funky download progress bar. I don't know that much about flash, but these are normally coded by the author of the game, preloaded, and then updated as the rest of the game loads in the background. I've yet to see any good implementation of this for applets which is another bar to actually taking them seriously for web game work.  That said, this is just idle complaining because I've never -tried- to do anything of the sort myself either. I wouldn't imagine it'd be too complicated though. But then of course there's the other pile of complications mentioned above :-)

D.
Offline jbanes

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Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #52 - Posted 2005-01-07 12:28:18 »

Quote
Pop up any flash or shockwave game worth its salt and you immediately get a funky download progress bar.


Just add progressbar ="true" to the applet tag. It should give you a nice progress bar showing the applet loading. To make it even more interesting, you can use the image="myimage.png" attribute to display an image while you're waiting for the applet to load. You can even use an animated GIF! Grin

The problem is that Applet authors are still thinking along the lines of writing 1.1 Applets. 1.4 and 1.5 applets are way cooler and have lots more features that make them competitive with Flash animations.

That being said, I still hate Applets. But then I hate Flash just as much. The only web technology I don't hate is properly coded DHTML. (Improperly coded DHTML makes a friggin' mess that won't work in any browser except the exact copy on the machine it was developed on.)

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline Daire Quinlan

Junior Duke





« Reply #53 - Posted 2005-01-07 13:26:22 »

Quote


Just add progressbar ="true" to the applet tag. It should give you a nice progress bar showing the applet loading. To make it even more interesting, you can use the image="myimage.png" attribute to display an image while you're waiting for the applet to load. You can even use an animated GIF! Grin


I stand corrected ! Is this just for the 1.4 plugins ? the last time i did any applet work was part of a network management system for a big tele company. Despite the ATM switches selling for 100's of thousands of dollars and the NMS system selling for a comparable sum, we weren't allowed dictate which browser the thin client would run on, or what version of plugin (if the clients even HAD a plugin) had to be installed on the client machines. As you can imagine this lead to some interesting* scenarios.

*by interesting i of course mean absolutely goddamn frustrating and tear-your-hair-out irritating ...

D.
Offline tom
« Reply #54 - Posted 2005-01-07 14:40:02 »

Quote
Why don't I write for 1.1? Well, we have to look at why I'm bothering to write these applets in the first place. There is a certain element of "I like writing games! It's fun!" going on, for sure, as well as a bit of "Look how cool we are!".

I can't force you to like making 1.1 games. But I don't see anything in the applet that you can't do in 1.1, so I don't think it is such a huge differance. Maybe you've got a personal grudge against 1.1, but how is it cool not to support it?

Quote
But mostly it's because I want quality traffic to Puppygames.net. By "quality" what we're talking about is surfers who might pay for something. I don't want to be just another website full of shite applets supported by advertising. That market is nicely taken care of already by many, many sites.

So firstly the new applets are 1.4 compatible only, apart from Puppy Invaders. That filters out quite a lot of people running MSVM, which is fine because it's irritatingly restrictive over what you can and can't do.

I think you've mentioned that you did the applets to attract trafic. If more people are able to run the games, then you attract more traffic. And it's not like they can't play your real game even though they got MSVM. You provide native installers for both SD and AF.

It is too easy to say that just because they've got the msvm, they are cheap, and the scum of the web.

Quote
Secondly, if I start using OpenGL, this filters out all the people who can't run our full games anyway, so hopefully they won't waste our bandwidth downloading them either. Bearing in mind that we're shifting our attention to MacOS X.

Then I would agree that you have got a legitimate reason to require 1.4.

Quote
I really don't like applets myself. I don't enjoy coding them much because of the stupid restrictions and I sure as hell hate pages that spring them up on me as 90% of the time they don't even run. (Usually Invalid Bytecode, ClassNotFound, or grey rectangle syndrome).

I like applets if they are 1.1. Made a couple of applet games a couple of years ago, and I thought is was fun. Ofcourse not as fun as LWJGL Smiley

Quote
I don't know that much about flash, but these are normally coded by the author of the game, preloaded, and then updated as the rest of the game loads in the background. I've yet to see any good implementation of this for applets which is another bar to actually taking them seriously for web game work.

I've seen lots of applets that load their resources after the applet is started. Some might even load the classes, unless it violates the applets security. The problem with it is that the resources is downloaded every time. But the resources can be cached by the browser if it is part of the applet.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 407
Projects: 3
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« Reply #55 - Posted 2005-01-07 14:52:04 »

I do stuff with Preferences, and BufferStrategy, and I also rely on certain performance aspects of 1.4. There are various other little gotchas too, and it's such a pain in the arse it makes me wonder why I bother with Java sometimes.

Cas Smiley

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #56 - Posted 2005-01-07 15:18:08 »

Quote

I can't force you to like making 1.1 games. But I don't see anything in the applet that you can't do in 1.1, so I don't think it is such a huge differance.


Howabout the fact that 1.1 implementations of the core classes have literally thousands of bugs that are fixed in 1.4 onwards?

You have to workaround crap that you really shouldn't need to deal with, a lot of bugs are critical, necessitating significant effort to workaround. This is the main reason I don't like 1.1-compatibility - it wastes my time as a programmer. Especially since *you cannot use Swing*, and the AWT rendering system is F. U. B. A. R.

The other major gripe I have is that image management is considerably poorer prior to 1.4. It's no surprise that Cas is using BufferStrategy - the basic code is considerably easier to maintain and more intuitive using the 1.4 rendering systems than the 1.1 ones.

However, I agree that applet loading is not a problem *if you are the author and do it properly*. As a user, it's terrible. I shall never understand why Sun were foolish enough not to make the progressbar on by default, and why it wasn't included in 1.1.0. I can think of excuses, but they are vastly outweighed by the positive benefits. I speak from painful experiences of having supported applets before.

What's wrong?

I just get a big grey rectangle.

Um...OK. What happened?

Nothing.

Oh, yeah - that's because the applet gives you zero feedback unless you:
- have a status bar
- read it at the correct moment in time (messages disappear quickly)

and of course it doesn't tell you what failed, how far through init it got, etc. All in all it's crap. Persuading every user to enable java console slowly made life bearable, but it necessitates RESTARTING THE ENTIRE BROWSER, which throws up whole new problems Sad Sad.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #57 - Posted 2005-01-07 15:23:10 »

Quote
Well, there's actually an interesting dynamic to the whole applet thing. I have, guess what... an ulterior motive!

Why don't I write for 1.1? Well, we have to look at why I'm bothering to write these applets in the first place. There is a certain element of "I like writing games! It's fun!" going on, for sure, as well as a bit of "Look how cool we are!". But mostly it's because I want quality traffic to Puppygames.net. By "quality" what we're talking about is surfers who might pay for something. I don't want to be just another website full of shite applets supported by advertising. That market is nicely taken care of already by many, many sites.


If I understand correctly, I'm right with you. You're saying it's inefficient for you to bother with people who have 1.1 because they are *automatically* extremely unlikely to be members of your target market. The conversion rate for people who already have 1.4 might be 2% compared to a conversion rate of people who initially had 1.1 being 0.1%, and *only* counting those that upgraded the JVM.

But...you have a great opportunity here. Put in a 10 line class-file switcher that references a different start method depending upon the JVM version, and the start method for < 1.4 JVM's is just a big red flashing message:

YOUR COMPUTER IS POSSESSED BY A VIRUS CALLED MS JVM

CLICK here TO INSTALL THE LATEST VERSION OF JAVA, WHICH WILL CURE YOUR COMPUTER, AND ALLOW YOU TO PLAY THIS GAME AND ALSO ALL THOSE AT http://javagamesfactory.org

IT HAS A BUILT-IN UPDATER SO IT WILL AUTOMATICALLY FIX ANY FUTURE BUGS AND SECURITY HOLES FOR YOU

...or something like that. That one's just my personal message of choice Tongue Grin. Can't hurt, could do a lot of good...

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline Malohkan

Senior Duke




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #58 - Posted 2005-01-07 19:56:13 »

I very much like the philosophy of: the more good games we write in 1.4.2+ Java, the more people will have to update to play them Smiley

Let's keep giving them reasons to update

Admin and Game Developer at
GameLizard.com
Play Rimscape!    |    Play Conquer!
Offline princec

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« Reply #59 - Posted 2005-01-08 12:14:49 »

I am indeed doing a launcher but I confess it's a lower priority as there's an even higher primary force at work here, which is my shift in focus to OSX, where we already have very high 1.4 penetration and OpenGL support out-of-the-box.

I'm currently rewriting Puppytron to use LWJGL. Might have it up by the evening.

Cas Smiley

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