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  Paradroid3D  (Read 8943 times)
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Offline EgonOlsen
« Posted 2004-10-07 22:19:31 »

Hi,

do you remember Paradroid? (maybe this will bring back the memories: http://www.jpct.net/pics/c64.jpg).

After playing a SDL-version of it yesterday (Edit: http://paradroid.sourceforge.net), i decided to try to make a kind of Paradroid3D (or whatever it will be called in the end). Today, i wrote this pre-alpha to get a feeling how it may look and if it's a good idea at all to move this great game to 3D. You can get this preview here:

http://www.jpct.net/para3d2/test.jnlp

Albeit jPCT (the engine i'm using) supports LWJGL, this version is software rendering only and all you can do is move around with the cursor keys, shoot with CTRL, switch between two different cameras ('c'), resize the window and exit the application (esc).

I'm especially interested in how you like the second camera setting (press 'c' once) compared to 2D-ish default look. I like it somehow, but i'm not sure if anybody would play in this mode. Personally, i tend to use the 2D-look in such cases. But that would mean that the whole idea of a Paradroid3D is questionable. What do you think?

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 284
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #1 - Posted 2004-10-07 22:44:52 »

!!!!!!!!!!! My eyes popped out when I saw this post with 3 magic ingredients in it: Your Games Here, EgonOlsen, and Paradroid, all clustered together.
/me whacks that download link
47fps in "2D", 35fps in perspective, on a 3GHz HT laptop, and it's looking fantastic. I like the 3D view.

Cas Smiley

Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #2 - Posted 2004-10-07 23:01:47 »

Works, but it's very slow on my (very slow) 500mhz comp. Btw that do the light stuff every x frames opt is pretty obvious with that framerate Tongue

I get like... 8 fps. Well, it's ok-ish (25-30fps) if I shrink the size to something like 200x150.

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline Mojomonkey

Senior Member




ooh ooh eee eeee


« Reply #3 - Posted 2004-10-07 23:06:26 »

41 FPS in 2D, 31 FPS in 3D. 3GHz Intel.

I liked the 3D view a bit better. Looks like a good start. Amazing software renderer (although I always thought so on your other demos).

Don't send a man to do a monkey's work.
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #4 - Posted 2004-10-07 23:11:22 »

Quote
I get like... 8 fps. Well, it's ok-ish (25-30fps) if I shrink the size to something like 200x150.
It could do OpenGL as well...i was just too lazy to add it ATM. Anyway, this is not meant to be a performance test in the first place. I just wanted to hear some opinions if it makes sense to make such a game. Doing a remake of a classic game like Paradroid and change some things (like the perspective) which will affect gameplay in one way or another is like doing a remake of Life of Brian...it's hard not to lose...
BTW: The lighting is done per frame, but it's vertex lighting with a low tesselation. That's why it appears to be jumpy.
Well, it's a pre-alpha test case and the result of 4 hours of work, so... Tongue

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #5 - Posted 2004-10-07 23:12:26 »

Looks nice, works fine, and the 3d mode looks much nicer.

We had the same issue with perspectives for the next release of Survivor: making the 3D look nice comes at the cost of "ruining" the game.

However, we made the 3d mode have fully adjustable camera settings, and some extensive fiddling later discovered various positions from where you can play pretty well. Survivor is a bit easier since you have huge numbers of enemies on all sides, and you can shoot simultaneously in 4 directions, so orientation is not quite so important. But I'd give it a go with a 6 DOF camera control and a game with some enemies and look for the sweet spot if I were you...

PS the ligting calc on the red light has an interesting glitch to do with vertex lighting Smiley but I'm sure you know that already.

PPS I love the bullet marks on the walls

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #6 - Posted 2004-10-07 23:17:46 »

>I just wanted to hear some opinions if it makes sense to
>make such a game.

I'd never played the original, therefore I only wrote something about performance Wink

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #7 - Posted 2004-10-07 23:26:01 »

Quote
I'd never played the original, therefore I only wrote something about performance Wink
I've edited my first post with a link to a SDL port of it. It's not 100% like the original game (i'm really missing a digital joystick for this) but it comes close.

Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #8 - Posted 2004-10-08 02:03:48 »

I like it a lot too!  I think if you add some vertical challenges to the game, like gates that rise and fall, or maybe even things you have to climb, or perhaps little things floating around that you'd have to aim up and down to shoot, it would encourage use of the 3D mode.  I think you can really do good things with it.  Good luck!

Admin and Game Developer at
GameLizard.com
Play Rimscape!    |    Play Conquer!
Offline dranonymous

Junior Member




Hoping to become a Java Titan someday!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2004-10-08 13:47:44 »

I love the 3d view.  I don't remember the game on the C64.  (May it never die!)  I like the 'zoom' you do when going from camera 1 to cam2.  You should do the same type of transition when going from cam2 to cam1.

The bullet holes are a nice touch.

For 4 hours of work, thats pretty darn groovy!

Dr. A>
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Bombadil

Senior Member





« Reply #10 - Posted 2004-10-08 14:37:12 »

Quote
do you remember Paradroid? (maybe this will bring back the memories

Yes of course I remember. For me, Paradroid90 is one of the greatest games ever. It's the graphically much improved version over Paradroid, done by the same autor: the genius Andrew Braybrook (hi Cas). It's the reason I've got an UAE (Amiga emulator) for years now.

Quote
Today, i wrote this pre-alpha to get a feeling how it may look and if it's a good idea at all to move this great game to 3D.

Very nice!
Are you saying you needed just one day (or not even one) to do this demo? That's impressive, really. It looks like your roughly 1000 times faster than me with 3d programming. :-)

Can't wait to see it in OpenGL.

To your question: The option of a 3d view is a must. Without it indeed the whole game will be questionable. The two cameras of Pompom's great "Spacetripper" I found to be very smart. (It's a 3d version of Braybrook's other genious 2d classic named Uridium.)


PS:




Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 284
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #11 - Posted 2004-10-08 18:49:09 »

I wrote to Andy Braybrook once, when I was but 12 years old or something, asking him how to do raster interrupts on the C64. He sent me a beautifully handwritten 4-page letter in reply! He's a great guy and it's a huge shame he's not in the industry any more.

Maybe someone could tempt him back Smiley

Cas Smiley

Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 15
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #12 - Posted 2004-10-08 23:25:31 »

Great start, the 3D view works great!

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #13 - Posted 2004-10-09 15:46:44 »

Thanx for the great feedback. It's good to see that many people are still loving paradroid and it really keeps me motivated to continue this project.

Offline kaffiene
« Reply #14 - Posted 2004-10-10 05:50:16 »

I didn't play the original - but I liked the demo - the response to the controls is nice and organic - particularly like the camera tilt as you speed up from being still,

Go for it eddie!
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #15 - Posted 2004-10-11 20:01:01 »

I've uploaded a slightly modified version that supports OpenGL and offers a crappy dialog window for display mode selection at the beginning. It also uses a different approach to lighting...should look better now.
URL stays the same: http://www.jpct.net/para3d/test.jnlp

Offline kaffiene
« Reply #16 - Posted 2004-10-12 06:17:08 »

got an exception with the  new version:

java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException
     at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
     at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
     at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
     at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Unknown Source)
     at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.executeApplication(Unknown Source)
     at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.executeMainClass(Unknown Source)
     at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.continueLaunch(Unknown Source)
     at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.handleApplicationDesc(Unknown Source)
     at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.handleLaunchFile(Unknown Source)
     at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.run(Unknown Source)
     at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: init
     at org.lwjgl.opengl.Display.init(Native Method)
     at org.lwjgl.opengl.Display.<clinit>(Unknown Source)
     at com.threed.jpct.GLRenderer.getAvailableVideoModes(Unknown Source)
     at com.threed.jpct.FrameBuffer.getVideoModes(Unknown Source)
     at naroth.start.StartFrame.init(StartFrame.java:46)
     at naroth.start.StartFrame.<init>(StartFrame.java:23)
     at naroth.start.StartFrame.main(StartFrame.java:19)
     ... 11 more
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #17 - Posted 2004-10-12 06:37:46 »

Quote
got an exception with the  new version:
Hmmm...are you having some older LWJGL related stuff lying around somewhere in your classpath? Can somebody verify this? I tested it on 5 machines (XP, NT4 and Debian Linux) and it worked fine on all of them.

Offline Bombadil

Senior Member





« Reply #18 - Posted 2004-10-12 06:38:05 »

Very nice.
As expected: many FPs now and smooth highres graphics. Also the lights light up well now.
Some 120-150 FPS on a Radeon9600pro.
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #19 - Posted 2004-10-12 08:10:00 »

> I've uploaded a slightly modified version that supports OpenGL

Easyly get 100+fps now (640x480x32) Kiss

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 15
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #20 - Posted 2004-10-12 09:18:36 »

Doesn't work on my laptop when I choose OpenGL; the dialog disappears and nothing happens.
The log says it initialized software (?) mode and it says it chose 72 Hz although I selected 60Hz.
Software rendering still works fine.

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Java Web Start 1.4.2_05 Console, started Tue Oct 12 11:15:02 CEST 2004
Java 2 Runtime Environment: Version 1.4.2_05 by Sun Microsystems Inc.
Logging to file: C:\webstart.log
Loading Texture...from InputStream
Loading Texture...from InputStream
Loading Texture...from InputStream
Loading Texture...from InputStream
Loading Texture...from InputStream
Loading Texture...from InputStream
Loading Texture...from InputStream
Java version is: 1.4.2_05
-> support for BufferedImage
-> using BufferedImage
Software renderer (legacy mode) initialized
Current mode:1024 x 768 x 16 @72Hz

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 284
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #21 - Posted 2004-10-12 09:38:09 »

Works fine here.

Please everyone stop putting LWJGL dlls all over the bloody place!!! You are NOT supposed to put it in jre\bin or System32!!!!

Cas Smiley

Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 2


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #22 - Posted 2004-10-12 10:10:42 »

doesn't help that the wiki sugests installing into the jre folder Wink
I have modified the wiki. Sorry for hijacking - please carry on, nothing to see here...

Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 15
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #23 - Posted 2004-10-12 10:18:26 »

Quote
please everyone stop putting LWJGL dlls all over the bloody place!!! You are NOT supposed to put it in jre\bin or System32!!!!


Well, I don't and never did. Still doesn't work here.  :-/

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #24 - Posted 2004-10-12 10:41:06 »

Quote
Doesn't work on my laptop when I choose OpenGL; the dialog disappears and nothing happens.
The log says it initialized software (?) mode and it says it chose 72 Hz although I selected 60Hz.
Software rendering still works fine.
Software mode is ok at this stage of the initialization, because the framebuffer defaults to software when created.
However, after choosing the OpenGL mode, something like "OpenGL-renderer initialized" should be printed out. If this doesn't happen and no exception occurs, it's somehow stuck in the Display's initialization...strange. About the refresh rate: If i remember correctly, i'm ignoring the refresh rate for windowed mode and will take the first mode that matches resolution and color-depth. Maybe i should change that...

Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 15
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #25 - Posted 2004-10-12 12:29:43 »

Actually I think it has something to do with me having installed SP2 for WinXP. No LWJGL or JOGL programs work anymore on my machine! Might be the video driver which stopped working though...

Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #26 - Posted 2004-10-12 13:03:01 »

Quote
Actually I think it has something to do with me having installed SP2 for WinXP. No LWJGL or JOGL programs work anymore on my machine! Might be the video driver which stopped working though...


Hehe... read that story twice today. Yea, installing the drivers again (or a newer one) should fix that.

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 15
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #27 - Posted 2004-10-12 14:20:16 »

Hm, just installed new ATI mobility radeon drivers, but still no luck...  Sad

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #28 - Posted 2004-10-12 15:08:57 »

Quote
Hm, just installed new ATI mobility radeon drivers, but still no luck...  Sad
No luck at all or just with this particular demo? Are you forcing AA and/or AF in the driver settings? ATI's latest drivers have a bug that causes some Java applications to hang/blank the screen when doing so.

Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #29 - Posted 2004-10-12 16:50:14 »

Hm. That's bad :-/

Well, you could try uninstalling the driver (eventually through the software control panel)... reboot... and then install the new ones. Doing so helps... sometimes.

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
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