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  Paradroid3D  (Read 9529 times)
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Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #30 - Posted 2004-10-12 15:38:04 »

Quote

No luck at all or just with this particular demo? Are you forcing AA and/or AF in the driver settings? ATI's latest drivers have a bug that causes some Java applications to hang/blank the screen when doing so.


No java-app using OpenGL (either JOGL or LWJGL, I don't have anything non-java using opengl on my laptop) works, so I guess it has nothing to do with your demo. I'll check AA/AF settings when I'm at work again, but iirc they are not forced and everything used to work fine before installing SP2.
I'll also try uninstalling/reinstalling the drivers although I have the feeling it won't make a difference, but it's worth a shot anyway.

Just tried at home, where it works beautifully, getting up to 300 fps Smiley (GF4, no SP2)
But could you please add vsync? Smiley

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #31 - Posted 2004-10-14 18:11:22 »

An update! The new version includes some (i.e.10) enemy robots that are running around in the level. They don't do anything usefull for now, but you can already kill them. They have a very basic "AI", i.e. they try to reach a target position somewhere in the level. If they managed to do so or they think that they can't reach this position with reasonable afford, they'll chose a new one. Movement is real 3D (incl. collision detection) when a robot is in view and a grid based 2D movement when it's not.
I also tried to implement the classic Paradroid's line of sight, so robots will disappear if something blocks the view of the 001 unit.

Offline erikd

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Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #32 - Posted 2004-10-15 07:59:39 »

Cool, I'll check it out when I'm at home.
On my laptop, it doesn't work. OpenGL on my machine is broken since SP2 (not only java programs).

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Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #33 - Posted 2004-10-15 08:22:08 »

@1024x768x24 == 50-60 FPS (GF2) (modulo some fluctuations)
@320x240 == 25 fps (software) (modulo some fluctuations)

EDIT: @1024, == 5 fps (software, no fluctuation ever). Ahem. I thought your jPCT did much better (faster) software rendering than tthis before? (same machine, q3-style FPS map?)

Quote

I also tried to implement the classic Paradroid's line of sight, so robots will disappear if something blocks the view of the 001 unit.


Suggestion/request: "shade" the areas your droid cannot see. For instance, apply a slight darkning of the textures (if your textures were less grey, I'd suggest simply converting them to BW). Otherwise it's going to be confusing, at least in 3D mode - where you can "see" a long distance)

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline kaffiene
« Reply #34 - Posted 2004-10-15 08:39:28 »

Quote

Hmmm...are you having some older LWJGL related stuff lying around somewhere in your classpath? Can somebody verify this? I tested it on 5 machines (XP, NT4 and Debian Linux) and it worked fine on all of them.


Yup. that was the problem.  Works fine now.
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


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« Reply #35 - Posted 2004-10-15 08:58:51 »

Grrr. Running this has disabled keyboard-auto-repeat on linux Angry.

Since I don't know how to reset the OS's keyboard stuff any other way Sad I now have to reboot just to be able to get basic KB functionality.

I don't suppose you're using any particular input API's or anything that might have clobbered linux's KB stuff? It definitely happened after quitting paradroid (using alt-f4 (did nothing) then escape), but I guess it might just be a co-incidental linux/jvm bug?

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline princec

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Medals: 379
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« Reply #36 - Posted 2004-10-15 09:12:27 »

Erm... LWJGL might do that... ask Elias.

Cas Smiley

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #37 - Posted 2004-10-15 09:25:20 »

Quote
I don't suppose you're using any particular input API's or anything that might have clobbered linux's KB stuff? It definitely happened after quitting paradroid (using alt-f4 (did nothing) then escape), but I guess it might just be a co-incidental linux/jvm bug?
I'm using Java's build in keyboard stuff for the software renderer and LWJGL's Keyboard API for the OpenGL renderer and it works fine for me under Linux. However, i've the same problem from time to time, but it's definitly not related to Paradroid or even Java in my case. About the software renderer's performance: It hasn't changed since that quake-demo. I get 6fps@1024*768 on this crappy Athlon 1000MHz (non-XP) with SDRAM here @work, which sounds reasonable.

Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #38 - Posted 2004-10-16 00:06:57 »

run's just fine for me!  However I did notice that in 3D view when a robot would round a corner, and I should have been able to see the top of him, he'd just disappear.  This was in OpenGL mode

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Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #39 - Posted 2004-10-16 05:44:30 »

Quote
run's just fine for me!  However I did notice that in 3D view when a robot would round a corner, and I should have been able to see the top of him, he'd just disappear.  This was in OpenGL mode
That's the line of sight implementation. It calculates the line of sight from the 001-unit to each robot and not from the camera. The 001-unit can't see such robots behind a corner (while the camera potentially can) and so they disappear. The same happens in "2D" mode.

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Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #40 - Posted 2004-10-16 14:29:26 »

Ahh I see!  Perhaps a flash-light effect would help with that.  Say, you can see the other corridors, but they're a bit darker, but your flash-light perfectly illustrates all that is in your view.  It could just be just like an invisible omni light coming from the center of the 001-unit to just light up all the space around you so you know what's visible and what isn't.

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Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


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« Reply #41 - Posted 2004-10-16 16:14:04 »

Quote

Suggestion/request: "shade" the areas your droid cannot see. For instance, apply a slight darkning of the textures (if your textures were less grey, I'd suggest simply converting them to BW). Otherwise it's going to be confusing, at least in 3D mode - where you can "see" a long distance)


thats what i said Tongue

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #42 - Posted 2004-10-26 20:50:17 »

An update...again...the new version can be found under a different URL:

http://www.jpct.net/para3d2/test.jnlp

New features:

4 kinds of enemies :
mover - moves around in the level
defender - moves around in the level but will open fire if in range
fast attacker - tries to catch the player's robot and fires at him
slow attacker - like the above, just slower but with a higher range and more fire power

damage:
the player's robot will take damage and can be recharged at certain spots

doors:
Well...just doors...

multiple levels:
two to be exact. One that makes sense and one that doesn't (press 'L' to switch between them at any time)

explosions:
Not my own work, therefor consider this to be a placeholder for now (like most of the textures too)

keys:
UP/DOWN+LEFT/RIGHT: move around
LEFT/RIGHT + SHIFT: strafe instead of turning
CTRL: fire
N: recharge robot immediately (works in case of "game over" too)
L: change level
W: draw wireframe
C: change camera
ESC: exit

Keep in mind that nothing is balanced yet...it's still considered to be in alpha state. I'm having big problems to make it playable...the classic Paradroid's controls were completely different. There was no turning...the player moved directly into the direction of the joystick. This is different now and it makes things difficult somehow. Any ideas on how to handle this are welcome.

Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #43 - Posted 2004-10-26 23:42:45 »

I think strafing is very useful and was helpful for dodging bullets but I found I couldn't aim simultaneously.  Perhaps you could try mouse motion for turning, and arrow keys for movement and strafe.  You could leave the speed cap of course, so there'd be a point where moving the mouse faster left or right wouldn't help you turn faster, but that would also give you the ability to turn in small incriments.  Then the mouse click could fire

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Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #44 - Posted 2004-10-27 04:45:33 »

Quote
I think strafing is very useful and was helpful for dodging bullets but I found I couldn't aim simultaneously.  Perhaps you could try mouse motion for turning, and arrow keys for movement and strafe.  You could leave the speed cap of course, so there'd be a point where moving the mouse faster left or right wouldn't help you turn faster, but that would also give you the ability to turn in small incriments.  Then the mouse click could fire

And the second mouse button could be used to enter transfer mode...i thought about that too and had implemented it a few days ago using a quick-and-dirty approach, but it didn't work out too well. Then again, i didn't have a speed cap in it. I think i'll try it again. However, there would be a difference in behaviour between "2D"- and "3D"-mode: In 2D, you turn the player object while in 3D, the player object is basically fixed and you turn the level.

Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #45 - Posted 2004-10-27 11:53:23 »

in 2D there could be even another option where the arrows would be like global direction keys so that no matter where you're facing, the up arrow moves you up, and the left arrow moves you left.  That could make it really interesting.  So essentially movement would be separate from aim.

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Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #46 - Posted 2004-10-27 12:52:17 »

That's what freedroid (http://sourceforge.net/projects/freedroid/) does. You move with the CRSR-keys and aim/fire with the mouse. I'm not sure if i really like it, because it makes aiming very easy...it's a bit like skeet shooting that way. Guess i'll give it a shot anyway.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 379
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #47 - Posted 2004-10-27 13:00:09 »

Freedroid is actually designed similarly to how Andy Braybrook originally designed Paradroid. There was a separate aim mode and separate move mode. In aim mode you controlled a crosshair. He took it out because it was just too hard.

There's nothing wrong with making aiming "too easy". Trust me! Using controls to make a game hard is a bad move. I've been there, got the T-shirt, and had it shoved up my ass and set on fire!

So please make it dead easy to aim and move. And make sure there are loads of robots to kill!

Cas Smiley

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #48 - Posted 2004-10-27 13:31:03 »

Quote
There was a separate aim mode and separate move mode. In aim mode you controlled a crosshair. He took it out because it was just too hard.
I just noticed that while reading Andy's Paradroid diary. I'll add it as an option and see how it works.

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #49 - Posted 2004-10-27 18:44:15 »

Freedroids movement style is in for "2D"-mode: You can aim/fire with the mouse and the player's movement is no longer relative. You can go back to the old controls by pressing 'm', "3D"-mode hasn't changed at all.
Please let me know if this is better...i'm still a bit undecided as i'm having some problems to get used to it.

Offline dranonymous

Junior Member




Hoping to become a Java Titan someday!


« Reply #50 - Posted 2004-10-27 19:06:04 »

On movement, I'd make the 2d view fire in the direction you are traveling.  Make shift fire the in the opposite.  This would let you attack head on and also keep attacking while running away.

I made some other notes, but I'm not sure if they apply yet.  IE you may be in too early of a stage for these to be relevant.

- Start adding simple sound, even if its just simple background music or a sound for the doors opening and closing.

- I got the 2'nd level to act weird.  It stopped spawning enemies and the lighting dimmed.  Did I win?  (I emailed a pic to you)  Drat, I went to email you and discovered I lost the screen grab.  Sad  In essence, everything was very dim and nothing would spawn.  The player was sitting on the lower charging pad.

- Slow the recharge effect down some, its really great, but I want to see it more as it rotates around the ball.

- Excellent explosions when you shoot the enemy.

- I like how you can be shot while recharging.

- Maybe add the ability for a door to close on you or an enemy close behind?

Every version gets better than the last!

Dr. A>
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #51 - Posted 2004-10-27 19:44:22 »

Quote
- Start adding simple sound, even if its just simple background music or a sound for the doors opening and closing.
I'll add sounds close to the end...Braybrook did it that way with the classic Paradroid too... Wink

Quote
- I got the 2'nd level to act weird.  It stopped spawning enemies and the lighting dimmed.  Did I win?
The enemies are not spawned. They are already in the level, just not in sight. If you kill all (i.e. the counter to the left reaches 0), the level gets darkened. That's what the classic game did and so do i.

Quote
Every version gets better than the last!
I hope so... Grin


I've uploaded another version that offers three different movement modes for "2D" now. Choose between them by pressing 'm'. I'm really really interested in which one people like (or hate) the most

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #52 - Posted 2004-10-28 16:25:26 »

3D mode now has mouse aiming too (fps like). I like it, but i really need feedback on which YOU think is the best solution in 2D and 3D.

Edit: This version should also work on systems with no LWJGL support (like Macs, Solaris...)...in software mode only of course.

Offline MasterDirk

Senior Newbie




Somebody set up us the bomb...


« Reply #53 - Posted 2004-11-10 08:01:51 »

Excellent! Just excellent! I like the aiming a lot, but it's hard. I suck at this game, but it is beautifull! Very nice work, guy!
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #54 - Posted 2004-11-10 18:57:43 »

Quote
I like the aiming a lot, but it's hard.
It's harder now that the firing speed is much lower than it has been in previous versions. Anyway, you don't have to kill all robots by shooting at them. You may also capture them by pressing right mouse button and bumping into them or you can try to kill them by simply bumping into them (works very well when you control a bigger one).

Offline MasterDirk

Senior Newbie




Somebody set up us the bomb...


« Reply #55 - Posted 2004-11-10 23:17:08 »

Ah, tactics Smiley
This is shaping up very well Smiley
Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #56 - Posted 2004-11-11 01:30:34 »

Wow this is really cool now, I like it!  I gathered that absorbing other balls gave me their abilities, but I couldn't exactly figure out what those were or whether ot not it was a good idea that I absorb someone.

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Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #57 - Posted 2004-11-11 19:12:47 »

Quote
...but I couldn't exactly figure out what those were or whether ot not it was a good idea that I absorb someone.
That's why there will be a database about the different types of enemies that you can access. Like in the classic game, you'll only be able to study the models with a lower number than yours.
However, it's never a bad idea to capture an enemy instead of running around with the 001-unit. The least this gives you is twice the hitpoints, because your enemies have to destroy the captured robot first before the 001-unit takes damage.
Another rule of thumb: Everything that shoots at you is worth of being captured, because it will increase your firepower. Everything that doesn't shoot will be armed with the 001-unit's weapons after capturing, so there is no gain in firepower in that case.
Hint: In one of the three levels (press 'L' to change level at any time) there's a 999 robot. Capture it and enjoy... Grin

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 379
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #58 - Posted 2004-11-11 19:46:07 »

Egon, one of the things I really liked about Quazatron (Steve Turner's Spectrum version of Paradroid) was that instead of taking over the robots you could blow them up and pick up bits of them that didn't get destroyed and wire them into your own robot. How about that idea?

Cas Smiley

Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #59 - Posted 2004-11-12 01:51:42 »

neat!  So absorbing multiple robots compounds the bonus?  Also, I like the idea of wiring parts in Smiley  That would be made best if you could see what specific upgrades you had.

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