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  Xith vs jME  (Read 11194 times)
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Offline phazer

Junior Member




Come get some


« Reply #30 - Posted 2004-10-17 13:57:17 »

Exactly. It seems unnecessary to create three transform matrixes just because I create three TriMesh'es. I don't understand this design choice, besides the fact that it saves lazy persons the extra code of adding a transform group to the graph.

Offline darkprophet

Senior Member




Go Go Gadget Arms


« Reply #31 - Posted 2004-10-17 15:37:31 »

right, so you have created your triMesh, where is it gonna go? Ummm...near the heavens?

It has to have a place in the coordinate system, if no location/rotation/scale is specified, its at (0,0,0) with the scale being (1,1,1).

Tell me, in Xith3D, if you created a triMesh, how do you place in the scene? and if no transform group is there, on what premises is it placed there?

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Offline cep21

Junior Member




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« Reply #32 - Posted 2004-10-17 15:57:10 »

The reason this happens is because each level of the scene graph has a bounding volume.  It may seem wastefull to have to transform your node all the way down the scene graph but the real speed up is during rendering.  If the middle of the scene graph can be culled with view fustrum culling, then none of the lower leaf nodes have to be checked.  To do this, you need transforms at each level.  It's also very easy and fast O(1) to get the exact world location of any node on the scene graph.
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Online kevglass

JGO Kernel


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« Reply #33 - Posted 2004-10-17 16:04:18 »

You place potentially multiple TriMeshs within the same transform group.

Xith3D also supports bounding volume determination. I'm not sure why you believe you need a transform at every level to achieve this. Java3D did this also incidently.

Kev

Offline phazer

Junior Member




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« Reply #34 - Posted 2004-10-17 16:06:03 »

It's impractical and inefficient when you don't need the transform, for example if you have one transform group and multiple TriMesh'es as children to this node. Sometimes you have mutiple TriMesh'es which can't be replaced by one:

- You want to be able to add/remove/hide/show individual TriMesh'es.

- You have different materials on the TriMesh'es. One TriMesh can only have one texture.

Offline phazer

Junior Member




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« Reply #35 - Posted 2004-10-17 16:09:31 »

I agree with kevglass. There is no need for a transformation matrix in each node to perform transformations in advance. Just use the matrix in the parent node if there is none in the node.

Offline cep21

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #36 - Posted 2004-10-17 16:12:28 »

I was meaning to say if you have a SceneGraph of depth 10, consider each leaf node as a renderable object.  If I can figure out that the node at depth 5 is not viewable I don't need to check any nodes or leaves below it.  I need the exact position of that node to figure out if it is viewable or not.
Offline cep21

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #37 - Posted 2004-10-17 16:16:20 »

I see what you're saying.  I just think everything comes out even (speed wise) with how often jME uses the world location of an object and the nodes in the scene graph.
Offline phazer

Junior Member




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« Reply #38 - Posted 2004-10-17 16:35:07 »

I know what you mean, but that isn't an argument for having a transform matrix in each graph node. I think Xith does the bounding bounds/view frustum optimization too, but it doesn't keep a matrix in each graph node, only transform groups.

I think jME is a great project (and so is Xith), I'm just a bit surprised by this design decision.

Offline bozoface

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #39 - Posted 2004-10-22 00:44:42 »


this is sad, horrible, and embarassing, but true:

I glanced at jME but did not even give it serious consideration
once I found Xith.   Why?  

Just because of the name, "monkey engine".  I'm in an organization
where  convincing people to use java is in itself an issue,
and I feared that getting them to consider using something
called "monkey engine" would be impossible.

As java's reputation in graphics improves in the next couple years
this won't be an issue, but for now...

for your consideration.
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Offline SpuTTer

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Lazy Middle Class Intellectual


« Reply #40 - Posted 2004-10-22 04:28:27 »

Make sure not to tell the guys at work that you go by "bozoface" Smiley Unless of course you work at a circus, in which they'd be familiar with monkeys..

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Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


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I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #41 - Posted 2004-10-22 05:35:46 »

Quote
this is sad, horrible, and embarassing, but true
Not to mention very unprofessional and stupid! Judging a technology by its name alone is really really stupid!
I (and my company) would have no problem whatsoever using RectalProbeMaster2005Ultra as a profiler, if it worked better than its competition...

Offline cep21

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #42 - Posted 2004-10-22 06:19:34 »

Quote
Just because of the name, "monkey engine".


*nod*.  That's why I use SuSE at home.  I refuse to use FreeBSD because of the satanic mascot.  And those penguins?  Who could take that seriously.  Lizards are way more profesional.
Offline Bombadil

Senior Member





« Reply #43 - Posted 2004-10-22 06:49:10 »

Names actually have a big influence on the person/project/etc . That's why names usually have some special meaning. :-)
However, this is nothing new at all. The ancient Romans put it into the famous and so true sentence: Nomen est omen.

Back to topic: Is the jME maintainer still with us Java fans? I'm asking (seriously) because last time I visited his site (some 1+ months ago) he's been busily working with Dotnet and applied to the Xbox headquarter (I think he got the job?)
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


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« Reply #44 - Posted 2004-10-22 06:59:18 »

Quote

this is sad, horrible, and embarassing, but true:

I glanced at jME but did not even give it serious consideration
once I found Xith.   Why?  

Just because of the name, "monkey engine".  I'm in an organization
where  convincing people to use java is in itself an issue,
and I feared that getting them to consider using something
called "monkey engine" would be impossible.



LOL. Start a new poll, asking for new "marketing names" for jME (i.e. three-word names using JME that they could use when trying to appeal to conservative companies).

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline Per_T

Senior Newbie





« Reply #45 - Posted 2004-10-22 13:05:53 »

Quote
Is the jME maintainer still with us Java fans? I'm asking (seriously) because last time I visited his site (some 1+ months ago) he's been busily working with Dotnet and applied to the Xbox headquarter (I think he got the job?)
On avarage mojomonk posts ~4 times per day at the jME forums.

As for the name, it was one of the things that made me choose jME over Xith Smiley.

/Per
Offline Middy

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #46 - Posted 2004-10-22 17:02:27 »

Well I have my own homemade engine and took a look a jME. it had everything I had and solved every problem I had.

That was a bit frustrating thinking of the time I spend on my own engine.

Xith, would only solve my scenegraph problems. But seemed a bit more advanced.

Perhaps I'll trash my own... I'll see after I publish my first small game

When do I get my makeMyGameAsILike() extension?
Offline SpuTTer

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Lazy Middle Class Intellectual


« Reply #47 - Posted 2004-10-22 17:53:44 »

Tell them it's called Java Marketing Engine...

Sacramento Volleyball
"Whitty phrase goes here."
Offline Mojomonkey

Senior Member




ooh ooh eee eeee


« Reply #48 - Posted 2004-10-23 18:30:05 »

But Monkeys are funny, who would hate a money? Seriously, if the name affected your choice, *shrug* oh well, that's too bad, but I won't lose sleep over it.

I'm still heavily involved with jME, never really left, just took breaks here and there mostly do to a cross-country move. However, I still also play with .NET + Managed DirectX as well, but that doesn't mean I've abandoned Java or anything. Just ask, I've recently committed a significant amount of code that caused a significant amount of problems. Tongue

In fact, I don't post much on these boards anymore because I do spend so much time on the jME board, and work/life limits my board posting time.

Don't send a man to do a monkey's work.
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