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  Java3d / Jogl / etc  (Read 12709 times)
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Offline shawnkendall

Senior Devvie

Exp: 20 years

« Reply #30 - Posted 2003-06-30 18:59:30 »

I can think of several off the top of my head that we have gobs of content for.

Our OpenFLT laoder,  a terrain system loader we have, our character graph and animation loader, and a .x loader we made for testing.
Also, I woudl like to write one for ACE a 3DMax ASCII format, etc. etc.

None of our loaders have ever use Java3D behavior objects with the exception of LODs which our graph could still hold and mark as a LOD node but with no running behavior.

Our original engine work from the begining with J3D avoided using there behavior, collision and sound stuff.  That is it only used the graph for common data storage ( and many times just as intermediate format from other loaders) and the renderer.

Many groups have written loaders and not release them to the public, but could still get there data and more easily port what they have to the JOGL world, if the graph is compatible.
There are ALLOT of projects out there that fit this model, with ALLOT of content already there and more on the way.
We feel that content is critical, and wish to support that as best we can.

(BTW this message was posted from Konqueror running on a CD booted Knoppix Linux "install" - it worked great! )

Shawn Kendall
Cosmic Interactive, LLC
Offline DavidYazel

Junior Devvie

Java games rock!

« Reply #31 - Posted 2003-07-01 11:00:01 »

Well Paul, I don't have the time to write a nice generic meet-all-needs scenegraph and renderer.  Of I will attempt to keep it as generic as possible and reusable as possible and hopefully it can be useful for other people, either as an example or maybe even to be used.  But personally i dont feel qualified to design a perfectly modular, portable, efficient scene renderer.  Maybe by the time we are done with Magicosm I will feel qualified.  But my first responsibility is to my project our of respect for the many people who have worked for 3-4 years on it.

I am writing this so that the lowest level can be JOGL, LWJGL or whatever API.  But I am starting with LWGL for now since it is mature and fast and has repsonsive devs.

All the stuff in this effort will be under the name Xith3D and will be stamped with a basic Apache like license granting full usage rights to anyone for any purpose.

It will support scene graph, shadow volumes, collision detection/prediction/prevention, fov culling, occlusion culling, etc.

Assuming it works well I will open up a source forge project and let you all have at it.  I have the basic scene graph, fov culling, spatial trees, plus all the geometry containers finished and am working on the first pass at the rendering, borrowing heavily from the lwjgl_sg code posted here.  I did make a decision to use the vecmath library because I think it is well written,but there are free 3rd party ports if that becomes a legal issue.

I still say the most interesting stuff is higher level, stuff like particle systems, sky dome, water, terrain, animation, loaders,  vegetation, etc which is the core of gaming engines.  

David Yazel
Xith3D Project Founder

It may look complicated, but in the end it is just a bunch of triangles
Offline zparticle

Senior Devvie

Thick As A Brick

« Reply #32 - Posted 2003-07-01 12:18:55 »

Don't know if it will be of any help but the code talked about in this thread;action=display;num=1049466445;start=45#45 is up for grabs. Work still has me too busy to continue work on it.

Okay well it is slow and many pieces are still missing, for instance lighting doesn't work yet but here it is, call it alpha 1 of LWJGL-SG. - The javadocs, such as they are - The source code - Everything you need to run the examples

I run on Win2K so if you use LWJGL on Linux replace the library file in the lib directory.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline DavidYazel

Junior Devvie

Java games rock!

« Reply #33 - Posted 2003-07-01 12:31:16 »

Hey z!  Yes That code was a huge help.  The basic java3d node structure you did saved me a week at least and your SimpleRenderer class is a great starting point for me to experiment with.  I decided to use the vecmath library instead of the lwjgl.vector package through.

David Yazel
Xith3D Project Founder

It may look complicated, but in the end it is just a bunch of triangles
Offline psiegel

Junior Devvie

Adamant about gaming.

« Reply #34 - Posted 2003-07-02 13:05:29 »

David -

Yes, perhaps what you're suggesting is the best route.  I fully understant not having the time to try and write something truly generic and portable.  I'd be shocked and horrified if you didn't say "Magicosm comes first."

It sounds like the part you're starting with is exactly the part I would be totally lost on (culling, lighting, etc.)  If you post this when done (which it sounds like you will), I could see refactoring it to be a nice, tight, generic lib.  I had originally thought this kind of layered structuring would need to happen first, but I can see how one could start with something that just works and then try abstracting it.

And of course, I agree with you that it's the higher level stuff that's really interesting (animation, terrain, etc.)  I guess I will just have to shut up, sit down, and wait to see what your scenegraph looks like when it's done.

I will try to be patient.  Smiley


Paul Siegel
Adamant Games, Inc.
Offline zparticle

Senior Devvie

Thick As A Brick

« Reply #35 - Posted 2003-07-02 13:17:50 »

Hey z!  Yes That code was a huge help.  The basic java3d node structure you did saved me a week at least and your SimpleRenderer class is a great starting point for me to experiment with.  I decided to use the vecmath library instead of the lwjgl.vector package through.

Excellent, glad someone is getting some use out of it. Smiley

Offline Javabear

Senior Newbie

Java games rock!

« Reply #36 - Posted 2003-07-16 14:54:10 »

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, and I am not qualified to give legal advice.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, and I am not qualified to give legal advice.

I agree with oNyx.

You quoted paragraph two of section five. Here's paragraph one and two:

5. A program that contains no derivative of any portion of the Library, but is designed to work with the Library by being compiled or linked with it, is called a "work that uses the Library".  Such a work, in isolation, is not a derivative work of the Library, and therefore falls outside the scope of this License.

However, linking a "work that uses the Library" with the Library creates an executable that is a derivative of the Library (because it contains portions of the Library), rather than a "work that uses the library".  The executable is therefore covered by this License. Section 6 states terms for distribution of such executables.

It seems crystal clear to me that paragraph 1 is referring to dynamic linking, such as linking to a jar file, and paragraph 2 is referring to static linking.

Ok, it seemed crystal clear to me. Turns out I was wrong. According to the Free Software Foundation's Dave Turner (the man behind licensing <at>, "This sort of linking falls under section 6 of the LGPL."

Here's a quote from section 6:
6. As an exception to the Sections above, you may also combine or link a "work that uses the Library" with the Library to produce a work containing portions of the Library, and distribute that work under terms of your choice, provided that the terms permit modification of the work for the customer's own use and reverse engineering for debugging such modifications.

You must give prominent notice with each copy of the work that the Library is used in it and that the Library and its use are covered by this License. You must supply a copy of this License. If the work during execution displays copyright notices, you must include the copyright notice for the Library among them, as well as a reference directing the user to the copy of this License. Also, you must do one of these things:

a) Accompany the work with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code for the Library including whatever changes were used in the work (which must be distributed under Sections 1 and 2 above); and, if the work is an executable linked with the Library, with the complete machine-readable "work that uses the Library", as object code and/or source code, so that the user can modify the Library and then relink to produce a modified executable containing the modified Library. (It is understood that the user who changes the contents of definitions files in the Library will not necessarily be able to recompile the application to use the modified definitions.)
b) Use a suitable shared library mechanism for linking with the Library. A suitable mechanism is one that (1) uses at run time a copy of the library already present on the user's computer system, rather than copying library functions into the executable, and (2) will operate properly with a modified version of the library, if the user installs one, as long as the modified version is interface-compatible with the version that the work was made with.
c) Accompany the work with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give the same user the materials specified in Subsection 6a, above, for a charge no more than the cost of performing this distribution.
d) If distribution of the work is made by offering access to copy from a designated place, offer equivalent access to copy the above specified materials from the same place.
e) Verify that the user has already received a copy of these materials or that you have already sent this user a copy.

Here's some linkage to discussions on this issue:

And here's a link to the LGPL itself:
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder

Exp: 12 years

Where's the Kaboom?

« Reply #37 - Posted 2003-07-16 15:02:53 »

I think the main conclusion is that the license is a complete mess, and with the right/wrong weasels (er.. lawyers) and people making trouble it can lead to problems.

Note also that as far as I am aware the LGPL (as most other 'open source' licenses) has not yet had the opportunity to prove itself in a court of law... it's never been "tested"

I would feel safer using something that is a bit easier to understand.

Offline Breakfast

Senior Devvie

for great justice!

« Reply #38 - Posted 2003-07-19 15:55:58 »

The Apache one is pretty easy to follow. It could perhaps be adapted fairly easily.
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