Open Source is coming ...

[Daath]

I guess this is something I really didn't expect ....open source hosted at java-gaming.org ... http://www.computerworld.com/developmenttopics/development/java/story/0,10801,81808,00.html

[Daath]

obviously I had no idea that closing and and re-opening of this site would follow     anyways glad to be back again   also I hope talking about Java3d is not considered blashemy  

[Matzon]

I hope talking about Java3d is not considered blashemy

Or just as related - since J3D is stalled, jogl has been released: What is Suns official stance on 3D Development for Java? which are we to use? Which is more backed by Sun?

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[Breakfast]

The more I look at the open_gl stuff the more I hope that if they are going to put J3d out of it's misery some decent reasonably high-level apis happen to replace it. I like working with 3D but I don't really have time to master all the low level stuff as well as all the things I have already learned to do with J3d...

[swpalmer]

There is definately room for a scene graph API in there somewhere.  I think the best approach would be to take the API from the Mobile 3D JSR and implement it with JOGL... then use it to phase out Java3D.... OR maybe it is possible to implement Java3D in pure java on top of the (unpure) JOGL implementation?

Where's Dave?  He should have some opinion on this.  Actually better move this to the Java3D forum before I take another thread way off topic

In any case..  I think the move to make the gaming APIs open source was right on.  Now we don't have the awkward but basically necessary delays of the JCP to keep java gaming lagged behind the cutting edge.   And as was mentioned in those icky forums, once these open source APIs mature they can be 'blessed' by the JCP.. would that make them "endorsed standards" ??

[Smoke]

good ideas for java3d

imho they should refactor java3d to work on top of JOGL. if they do it nice and modular you could only pick parts you need or replace parts you don't like.

that would be a huge step to overcome the prohibitive java3d download for the end user because this modularity would make it easy to distribute exactly the needed parts together with jogl (and game).

furthermore this would allow the opensource community to replace parts that aren't so well fit for gaming.

[William]

There are certainly components from Java3D that would be useful to have for JOGL, and JOGL does need some sort of common upper data-structure layer so that we can share loaders and other common components.

However, the execution structure of Java3D really needs to be ripped open and put in control of the application developer. Game developers need to be able to implement something that is perhaps not as scalable as the current multi-threaded Java3D execution architecture but more suitable to gaming.

Developers also need control over the scenegraph's execution structure to be able to schedule the scenegraph rendering so that it does not interfer with other APIs. Right now with Java3D it is very difficult to play sound (or video) while doing 3D-rendering unless you use the buggy sound support built into Java3D.

I guess the ideal would be to get something like Java3D, but Open Source.

[Kevdog]

When I asked at the JavaOne desktop games session about Java3D's future the answer I got was like this:

Java3D is on hold while JOGL and JOAL are worked on as this is what most "serious" game developers are looking for.  They are really focusing on commercial game development and their needs.  Until that is developed to a mature state or they get more resources Java3D is in a coma, and it isn't known at this time whether it will be revived at a later date, or rewritten or replaced.

[William]

Well, Doug has mentioned that they plan to implement stuff like physics and animation on top of JOGL and I guess that they are going to need some kind of scenegraph architecture to do that.

[djp]

Just to clarify a little, Java 3D is not on hold as JOGL and JOAL are being worked on - the Java 3D project is in a different group within Sun. Sun's Games Technologies Group's current focus is on the low-level basic functionality needed by games, hence are focus on OpenGL, OpenAL and input technologies.  We can't speak for the Java 3D group but we are going to start actively ping'ing them regarding their future plans for the product.

d

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[Breakfast]

Thanks for that- it would be really handy to know what is going to be happening with J3D at some point soon.

[bmyers]

Yes -- there are many of us on these forums that are fairly anxious right now about the future plans for Java3D.  We are hoping for a roadmap of some sort -- be it good or bad!