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  JGF v3 - status  (Read 36109 times)
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Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #180 - Posted 2005-07-31 22:48:21 »

in about 3 months time I did Java Unlimited

3 months...and you have none of the hard bits, your system doesn't scale, and you lack the complex features (will you be able to add them? Probably not). But that's fine if you never want it to go much beyond the current system - you've made the perfect choices if your system was easy to build as you wanted it, and would be hard to change: it means you've achieved what you were aiming at with optimal efficiency. The fact that JGF was intended to do a lot more than your site forced certain different decisions. You ought to open your mind to that possibility and pay more attention to what the differences are, and what the long-term effects of your own decisions might be, rather than casting aspersions.

Quote
IMO, Java is better suited for programs.. not webpages. But hey, just an opinion. Lips Sealed

I guess you think you know better than most global corporates then, who use J2EE intensively (and often exclusively) to build webpages.

I know about designing and building systems, it's my profession. Lots of issues affected the choices behind JGF's eventual implementation - I spent a couple of months just thinking about it before starting. With hindsight, i'd still do it much the same way again next time - although I'd be tempted not to use NIO at all, given the hassle of working around bugs and inadequacies both in NIO and in the things I was interfacing it to. e.g. it is frustrating quite how many OSS projects completely ignore NIO even today Sad - despite my offers to several to partially convert their codebases.

Quote
So far I havent had any I/O problems (or any other unexplainable bugs) with PHP.

Yes, my optimism that after a couple of years in production use Sun's NIO fully worked, and that after 3 years using it in the GrexEngine I'd seen all the exceptions that mattered, was - in hindsight - largely misplaced. NIO is considerably lower quality than my previous experiences of Sun standard java API's; they've not been this bad since 1.0.x IME (which were worse, IIRC). I still believe in it strongly, but it's just not ready for production use, except in narrow deployments where you're only hitting a small subsection of the bugs - or in situations where you have hte manpower and time to make custom workarounds each time you hit a new NIO bug.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #181 - Posted 2005-07-31 23:52:37 »

I'd be tempted not to use NIO at all, given the hassle of working around bugs and inadequacies

Quote
it is frustrating quite how many OSS projects completely ignore NIO even today Sad

Just possibly the two are related? Undecided

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline woogley
« Reply #182 - Posted 2005-08-01 03:22:37 »

3 months...and you have none of the hard bits, your system doesn't scale, and you lack the complex features (will you be able to add them? Probably not)...
Since when do you know the inner workings of my system and how it "scales"? When I last checked, I, being the only coder, know exactly what goes on behind the scenes.. I've done a superb job of keeping it simple for the user, yet keeping it extendible for me. Just because I don't have tons of news posts that say stuff like "bug here, bug there.. sorry! server down AGAIN" doesn't mean my system isn't complex - so check your facts. I just keep all the technical stuff where it belongs.. and the games in front of my users.

The fact about the "long term decisions" doesn't change the fact that I had a stable site and layout out in 3 months -*by myself* - *without requiring donations*. How many layouts did JGF go through...? Why does JGF cost so much when there are so many free ways to make a site? I pay $4/mo for hosting.. the *volunteered* donations thus far have covered that for the next year or 2 and bought me a domain.

I guess you think you know better than most global corporates then, who use J2EE intensively (and often exclusively) to build webpages...
I dont claim to be a corporate genius of any kind, I simply stated an opinion.. I know opinions that are against yours are tough to swallow. Just because a corporation uses something doesn't always mean its *the* way to go. PHP development is faster and less buggy than any servlet I've ever come across... and it's not like corporations have ignored PHP (it is likely to be one of the most popular serverside languages around)
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #183 - Posted 2005-08-05 00:54:30 »

File uploads now, apparently, fully working. I uploaded some games, and everything went fine.

i.e. everything (that was already working at any point) is now working.

FYI, to whoever recommended Apache Commons FileUpload months ago - I've ended up using it Smiley. At the time IIRC I said it had a clean looking API although it had no NIO compatibility (major bad point) and I didn't want to have to go down the full-servlet-compatibility route either. Fortunately, it only requires the smallest of J2EE compatibility, and - unlike Jetty's built-in MultiPartRequest class - it (so far) fully works.

In classic Apache fashion, the user-guide on the front page uses entirely deprecated methods so I'm not sure how the new replacements are supposed to be used, but the deprecated versions appear to work fine for now Smiley.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #184 - Posted 2005-08-05 00:55:19 »

Also, having become a recent devotee of IE7.0, I'll be using that to try and fix all the MSIE 6 CSS rendering bugs on the site over coming weeks.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #185 - Posted 2005-08-05 01:05:22 »

Since when do you know the inner workings of my system and how it "scales"?

I know what a LAMP server is capable of and what it is not capable of.

Quote
I just keep all the technical stuff where it belongs.. and the games in front of my users.

Excellent. I'm mainly doing this for the benefit of everyone else. If Java Unlimited serves a valuable purpose, I'm happy.

Quote
Why does JGF cost so much when there are so many free ways to make a site?

Because 20Mb games eat into b/w rather quickly (I have the b/w logs to prove this, from back when the site was just 3 pages of HTML), cheap servers go down like a tarts knickers (very bad for keeping players bothering to come back to the site), and hosting java gameservers is not easy on PHP hosting (something high on the todo list). Amongst many other reasons, but those 3 come to mind off the top of my head.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #186 - Posted 2005-08-13 16:55:08 »

Profiles now working, with photo upload - and your mugshot will appear on each of your game pages. I've kicked us off with a ridiculous photo for myself:

http://javagamesfactory.org/views/view-game?name=Survivor

Not yet checked on MSIE, but people without photos should just get "NO PHOTO".

Easiest way to upload a photo is just to find one of your games and click on the NO PHOTO link, or else go to your "Personal" page which has a link to your profile page.

Typical profile page:

http://javagamesfactory.org/views/view-profile?name=kevglass

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline Virum

Junior Member




Like a leaf in an icy world, memories will fade


« Reply #187 - Posted 2005-08-20 10:03:34 »

Hey, blah^3, I noticed a bug in your site.  If you try to log in and your don't get your password in correctly, i'm taken to a page that says:

Quote
Please contact the admin / dev-team

Copy and paste everything below this line when contacting them

Throwable:java.lang.Error: Service com.grexengine.cms.core.CMSAuthenticationService returned a null response; this is illegal, please contact service author
Line   Source File
283   In bAsynchronousService.java
384   ...called from bModule.java
595   ...called from Thread.java

It's time to prove to your friends that your worth a damn. Sometimes that means dying; sometimes that means killing a whole lotta people.

Blog
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #188 - Posted 2005-08-20 13:49:52 »

Thanks. Fixed.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline c_lilian

Senior Member


Projects: 1


Java games will probably rock someday...


« Reply #189 - Posted 2005-08-26 10:07:46 »

Blah^3, I don't know if it's on your todo list, but here is a small suggestion for JGF : 

 - could you please add tooltips to game images (top banner of most pages) or give them a small title ?

Currently I rely on a look at the browser's status bar to check if I already know the game or not (images are harder to remember) and find it annoying...

Lilian

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #190 - Posted 2005-08-26 23:59:43 »

Quote
cheap servers go down like a tarts knickers

 Shocked

Crikey, I'd like to meet that tart, all the tarts I meet have like 99.6% up time....

 Grin
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #191 - Posted 2005-08-27 00:26:01 »

Just made a subtle change to the cache headers that on some browsers makes pages load much much quicker, depending upon whether your browser listens to modified times or no-cache headers...

And, of course, there's the dev-diary stuff mentioned in the other thread.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #192 - Posted 2005-09-12 00:21:13 »

I've uploaded Paradroidz again. it works, but...:

  • I couldn't use the LWJGL 0.98 from the "Extensions"-list because it failed with a security error (haven't saved the stack trace, sorry).
  • After uploading LWJGL by myself, the Jars are listed multiple times. This was already broken some month ago...however, this doesn't seem to hurt.
  • The jnlp works, but it's "executed" two times (this happens with all other hosted games that i've tried too), i.e. it's downloading all the jars, downloads them again and THEN it finally starts the game.
  • The html-source code is cluttered with a lot of rants why this and that doesn't work and how stupid the guys from Microsoft, Apache.org and MySQL are. This is very bad style IMHO.

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #193 - Posted 2005-09-12 18:26:44 »

Thanks for the bug reports. I know Mazon has been testing / improving the LWJGL hosted copy off and on - there's a problem, though, that certs are expensive and LWJGL doens't ahve a signing cert.

The rest is currently in the "if it works, it's going to be left alone for a while, even though I'd prefer to fix it properly" state. I wasn't aware of the double-downloading (never seen that myself, on any of several OS's and different locations) - but that's due to be replaced enitrely by the versioned webstart protocol in the future, so doesnt seem worth doing too much with it now.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #194 - Posted 2005-09-13 05:15:14 »

The JGF is looking good blar, nice one.

Can I suggest adding a "title" attribute to your  game links at the top right of the page with the game's name?  I like to see what the game is called before clicking Smiley

Will.

Offline hvor2

Junior Member




Beyond mind, there is an awareness...


« Reply #195 - Posted 2005-11-07 14:05:44 »

Blah, is there any chance for us to add some other property in jnlp file, for example,
-Dorg.lwjgl.opengl.Window.undecorated=true ?
That could be really handy, not to be constrained with only three properties....


Offline hvor2

Junior Member




Beyond mind, there is an awareness...


« Reply #196 - Posted 2005-11-10 11:28:01 »

I have another suggestion  Tongue
I noticed one thing is unpractical. I broke my Monstrumo game into 7 jars, so that people will only download minor changed part when I update something, not all.
But: in order to work properly, jnlp file have to have my code class first (that is one with main class) on the list. I noticed thet when I delete my code class to replace it with new one, the new one drops on the end of list in jnlp file. So I have to upload all 7 jar again and people will have to dowload them locally again.
Also, when I add one by one jar, sometimes 3rd or 4th jar jumps in first place in jnlp, so I have to spend a lot of time until jnlp is like it should be. It would be great if we could just select one of our jars with checkbox and make it to be first on the list in jnlp. Hope it's possible.

Offline nardev

Senior Newbie





« Reply #197 - Posted 2005-11-10 12:58:53 »

Hi blah*3

I just uploaded CroAsteroids. I had so much trouble doing it...what the site definitely needs is FAQ and a Common Problems section. I suppose you are aware of that but lack time all together. It's a big project running a site like that, financially too.

I wonder if sending a letter to Sun or whomever want Java to be promoted and asking them for a small donation would be a good idea. It does not hurt to try. Java might be the future of gaming and projects like JGF and it is in Sun's interest to see it happen. What's your look on that?

Peace!

<a href="http://vedsta5.freeserverhost.com/">CroAsteroids</a> - Shoot asteroids while doing math equations.
Online kappa
« League of Dukes »

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« Reply #198 - Posted 2005-11-10 14:26:47 »

Blah, is there any chance for us to add some other property in jnlp file, for example,
-Dorg.lwjgl.opengl.Window.undecorated=true ?
That could be really handy, not to be constrained with only three properties....



you can also use that flag in code and not need to put it the jnlp using :-

1  
System.setProperty("org.lwjgl.opengl.Window.undecorated", "true");
Offline hvor2

Junior Member




Beyond mind, there is an awareness...


« Reply #199 - Posted 2005-11-10 14:51:53 »

you can also use that flag in code and not need to put it the jnlp using :-
1  
System.setProperty("org.lwjgl.opengl.Window.undecorated", "true");

Yes! Didn't occured to me at that time. Tnx, kapta!

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #200 - Posted 2005-11-10 15:55:32 »

Blah, is there any chance for us to add some other property in jnlp file, for example,
-Dorg.lwjgl.opengl.Window.undecorated=true ?
That could be really handy, not to be constrained with only three properties....

I will add a generic propety adder at some point.

Bear in mind that for anything that HAS to be on the command line, you *cannot do it becase sun won't let you*.

The reason there are only three mentioned is that those were the only three I could find which Sun allows you to do - you can also do arbitrarily any application-specific stuff.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #201 - Posted 2005-11-17 19:31:47 »

There are still a lot of problems with uploading files that make JGF close to unusable IMHO. Most important and already mentioned here: There seems to be no way to make a jar file first in the list nor is there a possibility to mark a jar as the "main"-jar. It doesn't matter if i upload my jars from A-Z or Z-A, the result is always a list with anything on top but my main jar. Is there actually an order in this list? I tried to upload the jar as aaaaa.jar to see, if this will place it on top...but i don't know yet, because the site just stopped responding while uploading (and is still down...which is another problem of JGF).
Third problem (present since day one): The list of the jars shows a lot of jars multiple times and, best of all, they appear multiple times in the jnlp too. I got a list with 6 instances of lwjgl.jar. 5 were marked as "All OS", 1 as "Windows"!? If i delete one, they all go away. If i upload it again, it appears multiple times...at least that true for some jars (mainly lwjgl_XXX.jar) but not for others??
And the final one: The HTML sources are still full of rants against almost anybody (Microsoft, Apache.org, MySQL...). Where's the sense in that? Especially when running a site that works as unrealiable as JGF, one should be quite about the (felt) mistakes that others are making.
My usual update process for Paradroidz looks like this: Create jars, zips and exes locally. Upload them to my own site. Update the corresponding html-page. Done for my own site.
Go to JGF, create a new release, upload my files, tear my hair out why it just doesn't work, upload my files multiple times (using a dial-in connection, which is a real pain), see JGF crash, wait some hours/days until it's up again, upload again...pray. If it wasn't for the community idea, i wouldn't use JGF. It's a pain to use it in its current state.



Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #202 - Posted 2005-11-17 20:47:11 »

There are still a lot of problems with uploading files that make JGF close to unusable IMHO.

It's pretty awful at the moment particularly because of the untraced memory leak which causes it to crash every 24 hours (average). At the moment, I'm just trying to keep the main site live as much as I can until I can take some holiday from work and sit down for a few days solid and try and fix the two critical problems (as well as the mem leak, there is a once-a-month deadlock between two threads trying to read from the DB).

The deadlock problem is fairly straightforward - I've got the thread + monitor traces etc - but the once-a-day loss of all memory is the one that has to be solved first.

Thanks for the comments. I'm only sorry that right now I have absolutely no time to spend on JGF. A lot of how it works at the moment needs to be rethought - but there was no widely used standard for JWS deployment to copy in the first place, so I was making up most of the UI etc as I went along, no matter how hard I tried to do it intelligently the first time. On the plus side, when I do have more time (hopefully in the new year when we've got more staff at work), I now have very good ideas on what to fix and how.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #203 - Posted 2005-11-17 20:53:04 »

there is a once-a-month deadlock between two threads trying to read from the DB.
Ahh, i feel your pain. Had a similar problem buried deep into Oracle's JDBC driver. I finally bought another driver from a third party vendor and voila, the sun comes out again... Grin

About the jar-file order: I tried it again with aaaaa.jar...it doesn't work. I simply can't get my main-jar on top of that list no matter what. I'm stuck...

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #204 - Posted 2005-11-17 20:58:48 »

About the jar-file order: I tried it again with aaaaa.jar...it doesn't work. I simply can't get my main-jar on top of that list no matter what. I'm stuck...

I'm hoping to get my second day of holiday this year (!) next week, in which case I'll clean up that whole page.

Bearing in mind, of course, that if I make it all easy to use, there'll be more traffic, and it'll start crashing more like once every few hours rather than every 24 hours Wink.

"Deliberately crap - how to avoid server over-load!"

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #205 - Posted 2005-11-17 21:29:43 »

I'm hoping to get my second day of holiday this year (!) next week, in which case I'll clean up that whole page.
"Solved" my problem by putting all my files into "one big jar"(tm).... Grin

Offline hvor2

Junior Member




Beyond mind, there is an awareness...


« Reply #206 - Posted 2005-11-18 09:33:10 »

"Solved" my problem by putting all my files into "one big jar"(tm).... Grin
That's how I get around problem, too. But still, I need to upload lwjgl.jar and lwjgl_devil.jar along with my  whole jar. Maybe it wouldn't be so difficult just to select one  "main" jar among all uploaded?
Of course, when you find time, blah...

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