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  Java 5.0 available on Mac OS X  (Read 1533 times)
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Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Posted 2005-04-30 02:35:59 »

It's available as a download (40MB) for OS X 10.4.  Too bad it didn't make it on the DVD.  The OpenGL Java2D pipeline is not available (yet), which is listed as a known issue.  But there have been performance improvements throughout the system with graphics speed.

When you install it Java 1.4.2_07 remains the default JVM (apparently it has some improvements over the previous 1.4.2 version on Panther).

There is a Java prefs tool that allows you to specify the order that different JVM versions are applied to match WebStart and App bundle requirements.  E.g. 1.4+ can get 1.4 or 1.5 depending on how you tweak the prefs.

Offline blahblahblahh

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http://t-machine.org


« Reply #1 - Posted 2005-04-30 09:52:33 »

Quote

There is a Java prefs tool that allows you to specify the order that different JVM versions are applied to match WebStart and App bundle requirements.  E.g. 1.4+ can get 1.4 or 1.5 depending on how you tweak the prefs.


Do we get that in Sun's webstart too with j5?

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #2 - Posted 2005-05-01 00:31:20 »

Cool.  

Although,  it's a pity it's not on the DVD, and a pity it's not set to default.  Is 1.5 buggy enough not to warrent a default upgrade?

Do you know if new OS X user's have 1.5 installed, and set to default?

Otherwise, it's not really a good time to start distributing 1.5-only games for Mac, even if you are prepared to accept the restriction of a Tiger-only market.

Will.

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Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #3 - Posted 2005-05-01 19:52:20 »

Quote
Do we get that in Sun's webstart too with j5?

I don't see a way to specify the matching order in the Java control panel for Windows. All I see are ways to enable or disable specific versions.  But, I'm running a Mustang beta (b33) on my Windows box at the moment.

Quote
a pity it's not set to default.  Is 1.5 buggy enough not to warrent a default upgrade?

Do you know if new OS X user's have 1.5 installed, and set to default?

Otherwise, it's not really a good time to start distributing 1.5-only games for Mac, even if you are prepared to accept the restriction of a Tiger-only market.


The not being default thing is a non-issue on Mac, since If you are using WebStart (good) or an Application Bundle (best), then you just say you want 1.5 and you get it.

The bummer is that new OS X users do not automatically have Java 5 installed.  I'm not even sure if there is a way to get it to auto-download with WebStart.  I suspect that there isn't.

The best you can do at this stage is to point your users to the URL to get Java 5

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/java2se50release1.html

I've already got it installed, so I can't check to see if it shows up as an item through the built-in "Software Update" mechanism.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


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Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #4 - Posted 2005-05-02 08:27:33 »

Until it's the default, installed automatically, and autoupgradeable, and been that way for about 2 years, there's no way 1.5 is a realistic option for game dev.

Cas Smiley

Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #5 - Posted 2005-05-02 14:13:26 »

I heard that it is available via the standard "Software Update", so it is somewhat forced on users that way.  Software Update runs automatically once a week or so and I doubt most users know enough or care enough to un-select anything.

We will have to see what the conversion rate to OS X 10.4 (Tiger) is.  The pre-orders at Amazon seemed to indicate that it was in high demand.  (And it is pretty sweet.)

I'm more optimistic that Cas, but for no good reason Smiley.  I figure by the end of the year there will be a significant enough portion of Mac users with Java 5.

Offline Vorax

Senior Duke


Projects: 1


System shutting down in 5..4..3...


« Reply #6 - Posted 2005-05-02 14:31:26 »

Ya, it is pretty easy to get the 1.5 update...infact... It's TOO EASY.  I am still recovering from a customer service nightmare because it updated some users from 1.4.2_07 to 1.5 and broke them. Sad  

First questions from the customers IT:  If this Java is not backwards compatible, why is it trying to auto-update?  Is it really safe for us to be using a Java application when a new version might break it in the future?  

My respopnse:  umm...err... (while thinking to myself: F*cking Java 1.5 compatiblity BS!)

I honestly don't know what to do about this issue in the short term.  It's going to cost $20-50K to bring our software upto 1.5 safely, not because we want to use 1.5 but because this auto-updater is forcing us too.  Or do we absorb the support costs and bring it up over time?

Maybe I should assign a team to make it compatible now and send the bill to Sun.  Angry

Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #7 - Posted 2005-05-02 15:48:07 »

Quote
Ya, it is pretty easy to get the 1.5 update...infact... It's TOO EASY.  I am still recovering from a customer service nightmare because it updated some users from 1.4.2_07 to 1.5 and broke them. Sad


That's odd.  Apple was specifically quite careful about that.
Just installing Java 5 on a Mac won't make ANY applications actually use it unless they specifically request AT LEAST Java 5.  The default settings are to continue to use 1.4 if the app asks for "1.4+".  Also the command line still gives you 1.4 when you issue the "java" command.

How are you deploying your applications?  You could just specify "1.4" in a JNLP file or something, so even Windows users with the auto-update will continue to run your app with 1.4.

Offline zparticle

Senior Duke




Thick As A Brick


« Reply #8 - Posted 2005-05-02 17:10:53 »

some further info:

http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=33649

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301073

Offline Vorax

Senior Duke


Projects: 1


System shutting down in 5..4..3...


« Reply #9 - Posted 2005-05-02 17:52:34 »

Quote


That's odd.  Apple was specifically quite careful about that.
Just installing Java 5 on a Mac won't make ANY applications actually use it unless they specifically request AT LEAST Java 5.  The default settings are to continue to use 1.4 if the app asks for "1.4+".  Also the command line still gives you 1.4 when you issue the "java" command.

How are you deploying your applications?  You could just specify "1.4" in a JNLP file or something, so even Windows users with the auto-update will continue to run your app with 1.4.


Sorry, it's not on Mac, it's on PC.  

The application is launched via batch files or .sh scripts.  There are ways to solve the problem, but none are free and all will add additional costs to either us or our customers (support, installation or web servers, etc.).  

The bottom line is something written in 1.4.2_07 should run properly in 1.5 everytime, or 1.5 should not be an option for auto-download, but it is.

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Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #10 - Posted 2005-05-03 10:40:58 »

I've heard that Java3D is included with the Java install for Tiger.  Maybe only the 1.4.2_07 install... haven't had a chance to test it yet.

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