Java-Gaming.org    
Featured games (79)
games approved by the League of Dukes
Games in Showcase (477)
Games in Android Showcase (107)
games submitted by our members
Games in WIP (535)
games currently in development
News: Read the Java Gaming Resources, or peek at the official Java tutorials
 
    Home     Help   Search   Login   Register   
Pages: [1]
  ignore  |  Print  
  Sun and IBM IDE political war  (Read 2251 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline K.I.L.E.R

Senior Member




Java games rock!


« Posted 2005-04-20 10:21:30 »

http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t18296.html

Uhm, wow? :-/
I haven't seen the blog, I would like to though, however if a blog gets taken down by it's owner like that and has caused so much fuss then it must be a political war.

What I would like to know is how the battle for the top IDEs has gone so personal and has soured relations between Sun and IBM.

Found a copy in Google cache, contact me privately for the link, I don't want to become a catalyst to further a political war.

Vorax:
Is there a name for a "redneck" programmer?

Jeff:
Unemployed. Wink
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #1 - Posted 2005-04-20 11:16:59 »

Quote
You can't un-say a thing

You're damn right you can't...

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:X-7Oi-hARfMJ:weblogs.java.net/blog/timboudreau/archive/2005/04/am_i_the_only_o.html+Am+I+the+only+one+who+finds+Eclipse%27s+governance+just+bizarre%3F&hl=en&start=1&client=firefox-a

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 120
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #2 - Posted 2005-04-20 11:30:30 »

Pure entertainment but I don't think it points to Sun/IBM getting personal, just personal people getting personal.. as they always do.

I don't see a political war particularly either, if its been taken down its because Sun employees can't be seen to be dissing their own process (which as many of the commentors point out is what the body of text leads to).

Eclipse / NetBeans - pah, here an IDEA

Kev

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #3 - Posted 2005-04-21 11:14:36 »

Quote
http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t18296.html
Found a copy in Google cache, contact me privately for the link, I don't want to become a catalyst to further a political war.


This a stupid thing to do. You start a thread, then say you won't let other people even read WTF your thread is about. Sigh. You're basically *begging* the moderator to delete your thread.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #4 - Posted 2005-04-21 11:15:01 »

Quote


It's gone. Google's now got the new version.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 120
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #5 - Posted 2005-04-21 11:15:27 »

But its ok... cause the Mods don't do that in this forum.. Wink

Kev

Offline K.I.L.E.R

Senior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #6 - Posted 2005-04-21 11:31:35 »

Quote

[...]contact me privately for the link[...]


Javalobby also has a discussion on it and explains what happened a lot better than I have, hence the link.

My thread is about:

Quote

What I would like to know is how the battle for the top IDEs has gone so personal and has soured relations between Sun and IBM.


No moderator who can read English and has some common sense would delete my thread because they would have read it.


Quote


This a stupid thing to do. You start a thread, then say you won't let other people even read WTF your thread is about. Sigh. You're basically *begging* the moderator to delete your thread.

Vorax:
Is there a name for a "redneck" programmer?

Jeff:
Unemployed. Wink
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #7 - Posted 2005-04-21 11:44:41 »

I think the key issue here is "no moderator" Tongue

Cas Smiley

Offline Jeff

JGO Coder




Got any cats?


« Reply #8 - Posted 2005-04-21 20:29:02 »

The Eclipse/NetBeans war is very very old news.

Most of us Sun folk around here are IDE neutral and don't make a big deal out of it.  Im using both right now and I see advantages and disadvantages to both.  (Feature wise so far, Im finding Eclipse honestly more complete and easier to use, BUT I find their interface **horribly** cramped.  NB gives me a lot more room to actually work in.)

In a perfect world, IBM would have written Eclipseas pulg-ins for the existing open soruce project, Netbeans, as opposed to starting their own.  That didn't happen.  There has been some pretty ligitmate bad blood about that ever since.

It was compounded by the fact that Eclipse is the SWT poster child and Sun has put a lot of hard work and effort into Swing and didn't overly appreciate IBM confusing things with another incomaptable interface library.

As to why it all happened the way ti did, thats open to lots of supposition and I won't speculate here.

Got a question about Java and game programming?  Just new to the Java Game Development Community?  Try my FAQ.  Its likely you'll learn something!

http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Games/JeffFAQ
Offline K.I.L.E.R

Senior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2005-04-22 04:56:54 »

So this war has more to do with business practices than the IDEs themselves?

I guess open source and open standards are subject to as much politics as anything else in the world.
I've held the view that the open source model would eliminate most of the politics in software, guess I need to change my views about this.


Quote
The Eclipse/NetBeans war is very very old news.

Most of us Sun folk around here are IDE neutral and don't make a big deal out of it.  Im using both right now and I see advantages and disadvantages to both.  (Feature wise so far, Im finding Eclipse honestly more complete and easier to use, BUT I find their interface **horribly** cramped.  NB gives me a lot more room to actually work in.)

In a perfect world, IBM would have written Eclipseas pulg-ins for the existing open soruce project, Netbeans, as opposed to starting their own.  That didn't happen.  There has been some pretty ligitmate bad blood about that ever since.

It was compounded by the fact that Eclipse is the SWT poster child and Sun has put a lot of hard work and effort into Swing and didn't overly appreciate IBM confusing things with another incomaptable interface library.

As to why it all happened the way ti did, thats open to lots of supposition and I won't speculate here.


Vorax:
Is there a name for a "redneck" programmer?

Jeff:
Unemployed. Wink
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #10 - Posted 2005-04-22 09:43:54 »

So much good has come out of the Eclipse / Netbeans war Smiley

Cas Smiley

Offline Virum

Junior Member




Like a leaf in an icy world, memories will fade


« Reply #11 - Posted 2005-04-22 10:23:28 »

Quote
So much good has come out of the Eclipse / Netbeans war Smiley

Cas Smiley


Competition is the catalyst of innovation, invention, and refining. Smiley

It's time to prove to your friends that your worth a damn. Sometimes that means dying; sometimes that means killing a whole lotta people.

Blog
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #12 - Posted 2005-04-22 11:40:01 »

Quote
The Eclipse/NetBeans war is very very old news.

Most of us Sun folk around here are IDE neutral and don't make a big deal out of it.  Im using both right now and I see advantages and disadvantages to both.  


I think most users are too - even though I'm a 100% eclipse evangelist, I have a suspicion I *might* be about to switch to NB, since eclipse is still failing to fix the massive problems from 12 months ago, and what I'm hearing and seeing of NB is looking tempting enough that it might be worth switching.

Personally, I have zero loyalty to an IDE these days.

I will never *forget* how incredibly stupidly "we can't program for crap" NB has been since the day it was released (possibly until now...that's what I'm yet to find out), but I'll easily forgive and move on without a backwards glance. There never has been a valid excuse for what a stonking piece of crud it was, and I am still bitter at the time and money wasted even personally (let alone by all the contributors) trying to use it - exacerbated because it had caused the close down of other, better, projects, and there was no alternative left.

But ... if it's fixed now, then I'll switch in the blink of an eye, and sing it's praises loud and clear. Shrug. Loyalty, what loyalty? Grin

Then again, Eclipse is, fundamentally, a better idea. This isn't suprising, considering how much expertise and money IBM already had int he IDE space before NB's predecessor even started. But eclipse is now so stagnant and miserable that if NB gives it a kick up the backside, people will switch in droves, IMHO.

As noted above, competition between IBM and Sun seems - to this observer - to be the only thing that keeps java alive and kicking ass, as opposed to getting old and sluggish and sitting in a corner snoozing Tongue

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline shawnkendall

Senior Member





« Reply #13 - Posted 2005-04-22 14:06:11 »

This thread has a bit of the "II've switched IDEs! (pretty sure) " thread....
As blahblahblah has said, loyality is falling, I was fairly loyal to Eclipse for a while, but I saw a few things that NB 4.1 could do that I wanted to check out.
I switched AND it was easy.  I could switch back just as easy I believe now.  Switch is even to strong a word, it's more like use...which will I use.  I have to work with developers that use either so even the idea of sticking with one religously just doesn't work anymore.  "Cept for the Visual Studio people....Wink

Shawn Kendall
Cosmic Interactive, LLC
http://www.facebook.com/BermudaDash
Offline TheAnalogKid

JGO Coder


Projects: 2



« Reply #14 - Posted 2005-04-22 15:49:03 »

What is really important is what you really need. Does Eclipse provide you the features you're looking for and does it provide you a good and functionnal UI? The same question must be asked for NB too. Me, if I have to switch to NB then it will have to provide me the very usefull refactoring features, search facilities, automatic compilation, multiple perspectives, etc... It must at the same time provide a fast and intuitive UI. Ask yourself what are your needs? Do you really need to switch your IDE? What will the other one provide you more?

Offline Jeff

JGO Coder




Got any cats?


« Reply #15 - Posted 2005-04-22 20:00:27 »

Quote

I guess open source and open standards are subject to as much politics as anything else in the world.
I've held the view that the open source model would eliminate most of the politics in software, guess I need to change my views about this.


Actually IMHO Open Source is WAY more political them commercial development.  In fact, even the definition of the term "open source" is grounds for a political argument.

After all, to at least soem people (such as RMS) Open Source IS a political movement.

Got a question about Java and game programming?  Just new to the Java Game Development Community?  Try my FAQ.  Its likely you'll learn something!

http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Games/JeffFAQ
Pages: [1]
  ignore  |  Print  
 
 
You cannot reply to this message, because it is very, very old.

 

Add your game by posting it in the WIP section,
or publish it in Showcase.

The first screenshot will be displayed as a thumbnail.

E.R. Fleming (1 views)
2014-07-29 03:07:13

E.R. Fleming (1 views)
2014-07-29 03:06:25

pw (38 views)
2014-07-24 01:59:36

Riven (39 views)
2014-07-23 21:16:32

Riven (26 views)
2014-07-23 21:07:15

Riven (28 views)
2014-07-23 20:56:16

ctomni231 (59 views)
2014-07-18 06:55:21

Zero Volt (50 views)
2014-07-17 23:47:54

danieldean (42 views)
2014-07-17 23:41:23

MustardPeter (44 views)
2014-07-16 23:30:00
HotSpot Options
by dleskov
2014-07-08 03:59:08

Java and Game Development Tutorials
by SwordsMiner
2014-06-14 00:58:24

Java and Game Development Tutorials
by SwordsMiner
2014-06-14 00:47:22

How do I start Java Game Development?
by ra4king
2014-05-17 11:13:37

HotSpot Options
by Roquen
2014-05-15 09:59:54

HotSpot Options
by Roquen
2014-05-06 15:03:10

Escape Analysis
by Roquen
2014-04-29 22:16:43

Experimental Toys
by Roquen
2014-04-28 13:24:22
java-gaming.org is not responsible for the content posted by its members, including references to external websites, and other references that may or may not have a relation with our primarily gaming and game production oriented community. inquiries and complaints can be sent via email to the info‑account of the company managing the website of java‑gaming.org
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Managed by Enhanced Four Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!