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Online princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 429
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Posted 2003-04-07 10:09:45 »

Just to nudge the ball a more to try and get it rolling....

Were anyone to contribute some articles on JGO, what would you like them to be about?

Let's get a list of dissertation titles together, and then we can vote on them to figure out which ones to get done first.


Cas Smiley

Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Devvie


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #1 - Posted 2003-04-07 10:54:07 »

Here's a few ideas.  Many of these are already done, but could do with being all placed in one place.

Introduction
What is LWJGL?
LWJGL compared to Java3D, GL4Java, GAGE etc.
Issues with LWJGL - AWT/Swing integration, hardware/software requirements etc.
When/when not to use LWJGL?

Installation
Installing LWJGL globally (into JRE dir)
Installing LWJGL locally (local dir, set library path etc)
How to distribute LWJGL (Jar, WebStart, legal issues)
Example code: Ant build script both for development and distribution

Basic Operation
ByteBuffers and how to use them.
Intro to OpenGL.
Intro to OpenAL.
Input devices - buffered and immediate access.
Example code: Rotating square, Playing a sound, Example game loop.

Advanced Techniques / FAQs
Loading graphics (raw TGA format?)
How to take a screenshot (gl.readPixels)
Executing shader programs (!!!)
Rendering text.
How to use LWJGL for 2D games.

Development
Concepts employed in LWJGL development.
How to compile LWJGL on Win32, Linux and MacOS.

Links
OpenGL and OpenAL specs, docs, forums, example code, tutorials etc.

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Online princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 429
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #2 - Posted 2003-04-07 11:09:53 »

Ahem. So, er, you'd like some LWJGL articles then Wink ?

How about some more generic stuff as well - like, how not to anger the garbage collector? The Mysteries of the Main Loop? Scrolling tiles? Terrain rendering?

The list could be very big, which is why we should get it written up here and voted on.

(Where's the poll feature in YaBB?)

Cas Smiley

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #3 - Posted 2003-04-07 11:50:04 »

If I could make a suggestion Cas, I think you have plenty of material with which to start writing E-Books. If you wrote decent sized PDF books on the subjects that interest people, you could probably sell them for $5-$20 a piece. This way, we will pay for your time and you'll have more incentive to write very deep and involved information on Java and LWJGL.

What does everyone else think? Sound like a good idea?

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #4 - Posted 2003-04-07 11:51:23 »

Oh, and here's my list:

The power of Multitexturing (in depth)
A detailed explaination of GL extensions and their uses

Grin

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline Herkules

Senior Devvie




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2003-04-07 12:00:25 »

A 'Java3D - best practise' would be cool....

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Online princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 429
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #6 - Posted 2003-04-07 12:04:45 »

I still detect a very strong OpenGL/LWJGL bias here Smiley
Would no-one like to see articles about using Java2D for games? Volatile images and stuff? Java3D? Etc.? There's still a bit of scope for developing games using bog-standard Java (although, I mischieviously think, it seems to have crawled into a corner to die gracefully while we get on and do fantastic things our own way)

<edit> Aha, YaBB lag strikes again!

Cas Smiley

Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #7 - Posted 2003-04-07 12:24:12 »

I think Java2D is already pretty well understood here. (After all, we've had over a year and a half to figure it out.) OpenGL however, is still full of mysteries to many and is also viewed as "your area of expertise" (no offense). Thus, you have lots of requests for OpenGL type topics. :-)

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline zparticle

Senior Devvie




Thick As A Brick


« Reply #8 - Posted 2003-04-07 12:24:23 »

I would like to see an article or articles discussing:

1> The pros/cons of using the various Collection classes in games. Also including when it is better to use arrays instead of collections.

2> When to use custom classes for complex data types versus using multiple primitive arrays.

3> Best practices for class methods that may/may not modify passed in data. Best practices for handling situations where a method returns data contained by a class that you don't want the programmer to be able to change. Basically data copying versus trusting the programmer to not modify data. Include discussion of efficencies or lack there of of data copying.

Offline shawnkendall

Senior Devvie





« Reply #9 - Posted 2003-04-07 12:24:36 »

Well I'll put in for J3D but there are several Java3D books, tutorials as well as the mailing list and J3D.org, so that probably why you aren't getting a lot of J3D noise.

Perhaps someone else can yawp about Java2D? or maybe reference the links at least?



Shawn Kendall
Cosmic Interactive, LLC
http://www.facebook.com/BermudaDash
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline bmyers

Junior Devvie





« Reply #10 - Posted 2003-04-07 13:47:50 »

I'd also like to see some more in-depth Java3D articles, especially for:

1)  Multitexturing
2)  Special effects (particles, cel shading, etc)
3)  Sound
4)  Overlays
5)  Optimizing scene graphs
6)  Animation

Dan Selman's book was great, but there's a whole lot more depth in all of Java3D that hasn't been delved.

Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Devvie


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #11 - Posted 2003-04-07 14:36:25 »

Ah-ha, I thought you were just talking about LWJGL documentation.  Oops... Grin  My mistake!

In many of these things I like to take the "give the public what they ask for" approach.  Take a look through the posts here and elsewhere and see what people keep asking.

For example: BufferStrategies, different Image types, how to use ImageIO, fullscreen tutorial, debugging Java3D problems, isometric rendering, tile-based engines etc etc.

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline mill

Junior Devvie




popcorn freak


« Reply #12 - Posted 2003-04-07 15:52:30 »

i'd like an article covering the design of games, as in good tips on connecting all the pieces together (menues, gamestates etc). that's something everyone can learn from, both beginners and more experienced programmers.

i always start with good design when doing the most crucial stuff, but when everything is implemented (read menues) it tends to look more and more like spaghetti or even ravioli than good design!

i'm sure all of you who have written 3+ games have some pointers on the basic stuff.

still, LWJGL articles are of course nice too Cheesy

oh yeah, articles about sound/music are more than welcome

Offline GergisKhan

Junior Devvie




&quot;C8 H10 N4 O2&quot;


« Reply #13 - Posted 2003-04-07 16:12:39 »

I'd like to write an article about the game design process.... kinda looking for interest here.

I'm almost to the release stage of an MMORPG that's completely in Java 1.4 (with the exception of jbanes' JNI library for Windows because of the timer)..

I'd be very interested in writing and getting feedback as I'd like some way to actually document how I went about doing it, in detail.  It's 2D, not LWJGL, so that might cover the non-OpenGL gaming topics.

Mill, what specifically are you asking about for sound/music?  Creation, or how to use files in Java, or what?

gK

"Go.  Teach them not to mess with us."
          -- Cao Cao, Dynasty Warriors 3
Offline sma

Junior Devvie





« Reply #14 - Posted 2003-04-07 16:33:29 »

Often, interesting topics are deeply burried in old discussions. I'd like to see these results rewritten in a more accessible (and visible) article for easy access.

And to add my topic of interest, I'd like to learn more about all different aspects to write turn-based strategy games in Java... (as I don't like reality-based war games my example would be SSI's old Star General)

.: Truth Until Paradox!
Offline leknor

Junior Devvie




ROCK!!!


« Reply #15 - Posted 2003-04-07 17:37:20 »

Quote
I'd like to learn more about all different aspects to write turn-based strategy games in Java.
Have you played and enjoyed Final Fantasy Tactics? If so we might be intersted in having you join our project to create a multiplayer game in the style of FFT. Send me a PM with your email address if you're intersted.
Offline markuskidd

Junior Devvie


Medals: 1



« Reply #16 - Posted 2003-04-07 18:41:05 »

articles on tools (IDEs, build stuff like Ant, integrating with CVS, profiling, debugging)

not quick overview stuff, but really focusing on a specific tool and highlighting the various ways it can be used within projects


edit: compiling to native executables could go here. i don't have the drive to fool with gcj for example, but i'd be very interested in reading about someone's experiences with it
Offline mill

Junior Devvie




popcorn freak


« Reply #17 - Posted 2003-04-07 19:00:39 »

GergisKhan::umm, using and playing sounds/music in Java using the standard API (or other stuff, like javalayer and whatnot). i have absolutely no experience what so ever with that kind of stuff. creating music and stuff is not interesting (other people can do that)

Offline sma

Junior Devvie





« Reply #18 - Posted 2003-04-07 19:27:31 »

Quote

Have you played and enjoyed Final Fantasy Tactics?


No, all I know is the Final Fantasy movie - I got interested because of the computer graphics. Quite realisitic but cold and unhuman characters, simple story line IMHO - I liked Antz much more Wink

Recreating a game based on copyrighted graphics and storyline looks a little bit difficult/costly to me.  The game description sounds like those trading card games where unique characters loaded with special items fight each other.  I think, I'm more in favor of strategic and not tactial level games.  Still, the graphics on the web page mentioned in that other thread look great.

.: Truth Until Paradox!
Offline Tzan

Junior Devvie





« Reply #19 - Posted 2003-04-07 19:46:21 »

As mentioned already, I think that there is a lot of info in the forums but it really needs to be collected and put in one place. It could be in article or FAQ format. I was just thinking today that we needed a FAQ, funny you should start this thread Smiley .

2D stuff: image types, Buffer strategies, active/passive rendering, fullscreen/windowed, scrolling, timers, AWT/Swing/lightweight/heavyweight/None components etc... Could be easy to write for someone with the experience of doing it.
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #20 - Posted 2003-04-08 01:16:35 »

i would like to c some more theoretical stuff like:

how to make a demo mode

recording inputs and playback 'em doesnt do the trick. how should the main loop look alike if u wanna implement this feature in the future?

we all know that this is a feature wich a real game has to show :>

networking (realtime)

-login
-challenging (how to avoid being abused for dos attacks or taken down by simple attacks)
-timeouts
-why upd and not tcp?
-centralized vs distributed
-effective message encoding
-a bit cheat protection
-how to handle lag
-client sided prediction
[...]

in addition i would like to c all that fancy lwjgl stuff mentioned by cfmdobbie Wink

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline soupface

Senior Newbie





« Reply #21 - Posted 2003-04-10 14:05:43 »

It seems articles can be broken down into three major categories: Theory and Design (self-describing), Application (Java specific design, some pseudo-code), Specifics and Tech (API/IDE specific, actual code examples).

Here is a brief summary, as well as my suggestions for each:
  • Theory and Design
    • OOP Theory, Polymorphism, Terminology (such as Refactoring) (perhaps just links to other good sites/tutorials)
    • Game (general) design (again, links to gamedev or something)
    • Game code design (states, gameloops, entity/world structure, creating/organising world events)

  • Application
    • Game stucture in Java (what kind of code to use for what)
    • Networking, File saving, Security
    • Java language syntax/formating guidelines

  • Specfics/Tech
    • Using LWJGL, Using Java2D, APIs (OpenGL, OpenAL)
    • IDE Tutorials, IDE Comparisons
    • Using Collections, Using Regular expressions
    • Code examples, How to... (...make JARs, distribute with WebStart, serialize Objects for QuickSaving games)

It's a pretty ambitious list, and I don't know if anyone would be willing to write (and proof-read; later update) it all. It may be useful just to write a brief article and supplement it with a bunch of useful links (especially with Theory and Design, most of which is already covered elsewhere).

That's my 2 cents.

Offline Daath

Junior Devvie




Java games rock!


« Reply #22 - Posted 2003-04-10 15:18:54 »

many was said already  Smiley
So I just going to vote for:

- terrain rendering
- multi-texturing
- animation
- some basic intro to AI

just my 1.2 cents  Wink
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #23 - Posted 2003-04-10 15:37:38 »

hmm.. quite a comprehensive list - so who's willing and able to submit articles? If theres a demand I could sort out setting up a site to host them and such, perhaps a few other features (image of the week perhaps?)..

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline mill

Junior Devvie




popcorn freak


« Reply #24 - Posted 2003-04-10 15:59:45 »

IOTD/IOTW is very popular over at flipcode (that's the only reason i go there every day), but a new image every day is probably too much to ask for, so yes, one each week is enough

Offline rreyelts

Junior Devvie




There is nothing Nu under the sun


« Reply #25 - Posted 2003-04-10 16:17:20 »

Recreating a game based on copyrighted graphics and storyline looks a little bit difficult/costly to me.

We're not re-creating FFT, we're just using it as an example to describe the style of gameplay that we're pursuing - much like one would use Warcraft and Total Annihilation as examples of the RTS genre. The difference, perhaps, is that no term has yet been coined for the FFT style of gameplay. Perhaps we should use TBS-RPG (Turn-based strategy, RPG)? That doesn't describe its extreme chess-like nature, though, which is pretty critical to the gameplay. RPG-Chess is probably the most accurate terminology.

The game description sounds like those trading card games where unique characters loaded with special items fight each other.

No, it's not like that at all. I still think the best description is RPG-Chess. If you play it, I think you'll have to agree.

I think, I'm more in favor of strategic and not tactial level games.

Humm.. The words strategic and tactical are synonyms. What do you mean, exactly?

Still, the graphics on the web page mentioned in that other thread look great.

FFT graphics are pretty good. Much better even than what the homepage shows.

As for Tactxs, we'll be aiming for some really nice graphics, as the style of gameplay allows us to spend most of our gpu time on complex 3d models as opposed to the higher framerates, etc... that are required for real-time games.

God bless,
-Toby Reyelts

About me: http://jroller.com/page/rreyelts
Jace - Easier JNI: http://jace.reyelts.com/jace
Retroweaver - Compile on JDK1.5, and deploy on 1.4: http://retroweaver.sf.net.
Offline sma

Junior Devvie





« Reply #26 - Posted 2003-04-11 08:50:03 »

Quote
We're not re-creating FFT, we're just using it as an example to describe the style of gameplay [ ... ] RPG-Chess is probably the most accurate terminology.


I see.  I've still problems with that term though. Role playing to me means to dive into a character, feel him/her, live him/her. It's not about the most clever/most advantageous/opportune behavior. Something that doesn't work with most of the CPRG available unfortunately. Chess is quite a different type of game, very abstract and I've a large distance to the chess pieces. I don't care whether a pawn or even the queen "dies". They've no character Wink They're not even (stereo)types, they're just pieces.

To play a game at strategic level, I see the big picture. Armies represented by simple counter which will fight and eventually die for the greater goal. At tactical level, you'll see individuals, it's smaller scope and perhaps more personal.  You've individual tanks or warriors who get vaporised or loose a leg.  So for me, strategic is more abstract and that is probably what I originally meant.

Quote
As for Tactxs, we'll be aiming for some really nice graphics


So is this a kind of game where you've individual heroes who battle each other? Let's say the basilisk will attack with her special "turn-to-stone" glance. However, if the barbarian warrior happens to be equipped with a mirror shield he'll be able to turn the attack against her.

.: Truth Until Paradox!
Offline leknor

Junior Devvie




ROCK!!!


« Reply #27 - Posted 2003-04-11 11:10:34 »

sma: Even though FFT was released in late 1997/early 1998 it continues to be the fourth most active playstation 1 game on gamefaqs. It's a game the a certian set of people keep coming back to and just don't get tired of it. We hope to create something that earns that kind of following even when a majority of players won't give a turn based game the time of day.

The gameplay is hard to describe in terms people understand and can predict that they will enjoy, that is why I asked "Have you played and enjoyed Final Fantasy Tactics?" Since you haven't, you won't be invited to join our team until you have put a good number of hours into it. Yea, thats kind of a weird requirement for a volunteer project but if you didn't enjoy FFT then we know you won't be happy with where the project is heading.

It is a RPG in that there is a main character who "you" are and you follow this hero's story though history. You also control about 5 other charcters who, unlike a chess pawn or RTS grunt/peon/etc, you get emotionally attached to. Like chess the battle is somewhat predictable and you spend a lot of time planning in advance how ever many turns you can keep in your head. Battle plans like "can I get these three characters to attack this one character from a position in which they aren't so close together that the opponent's mage won't be able to cast 'mega fire storm' and do serious damage to half my team at once." are very common.

If you're still curious about the game, hit google and find some reviews. A proper review will describe the game better than I can.
Offline javatypo

Junior Devvie





« Reply #28 - Posted 2003-04-12 21:03:57 »

i can probably help write some articles..

i am a pretty good writer..

i got 86 in grade 9 english.. and my teacher might be able to proof read ones i make.


so rememeber me when u start putting stuff together..

i will most likely be writing about begining java, and beginning games (applets, fullscreen bufferstrategy basics)
Offline Breakfast

Senior Devvie




for great justice!


« Reply #29 - Posted 2003-04-13 19:14:28 »

I have my "Java 3d from start to having a little animated purple dude wandering about what could vaguely be called a landscape" tutorial roughly 3/4 done (and currently clocking in at a little over 20 pages )  - as soon as it's complete I'll let everyone here know so the people who actually understand the whole j3d thing can tell me what I'm doing wrong and I can change the tutorial accordingly...
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