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  floating performance  (Read 13677 times)
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Offline Azeem Jiva

Junior Duke




Java VM Engineer, Sun Microsystems


« Reply #60 - Posted 2005-03-15 03:25:00 »

Quote


The important bits here would be in things like software blitting loops and that sort of thing, that is native anyway (I assume).   But to be honest that is where going to assembler would make a lot of sense.  Coding software blits, stretches etc.  should be done in vectorized code... hand tuned SSE2 and the like.  
<snip>


Those sorts of optimizations take a lot of time and only help a small portion of the user population.  We're more interested in general overall performance, and writting hand tuned SSE2 for anything is a lot of work.  Don't worry, we're working on some cool stuff to help out with performance issues.
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 404
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #61 - Posted 2005-03-15 08:19:10 »

I suggest... you hire a games programmer on a contract to take care of this stuff for you. Seriously. I can't really believe that this hasn't already been done.

Cas Smiley

Offline phazer

Junior Duke




Come get some


« Reply #62 - Posted 2005-03-15 08:50:30 »

Or you can open source the JRE...   :-/

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Mark Thornton

Senior Duke





« Reply #63 - Posted 2005-03-15 11:39:45 »

Quote
Or you can open source the JRE...   :-/

I am rather sceptical as to how much difference open sourcing the JRE would make to performance of the JIT compiler. While open source might well accelerate change in other areas, I can't see it happening for JIT and general float performance.
As far as I know, none of the open source VMs match current HotSpot performance.
Offline phazer

Junior Duke




Come get some


« Reply #64 - Posted 2005-03-15 12:23:48 »

I'm not saying the JIT compiler would become faster if it was open sourced (maybe it would if IBM or the JRockit team helped out), but I'm pretty sure some parts of the JRE code would improve (less bugs and better performance).

Offline rreyelts

Junior Duke




There is nothing Nu under the sun


« Reply #65 - Posted 2005-03-15 12:43:00 »

Quote
I'm not saying the JIT compiler would become faster if it was open sourced (maybe it would if IBM or the JRockit team helped out), but I'm pretty sure some parts of the JRE code would improve (less bugs and better performance).

I think the "open-source issue" is a red herring, here. For all useful purposes, the JRE is already open-source. If you're interested in seeing bugs gets fixed in the JRE, or certain performance improvements being made, submit the source code changes to Sun. For example, I submitted source code fixes for performance problems in URLDecoder, and they are now in the 1.5 JRE, almost verbatim.

God bless,
-Toby Reyelts

About me: http://jroller.com/page/rreyelts
Jace - Easier JNI: http://jace.reyelts.com/jace
Retroweaver - Compile on JDK1.5, and deploy on 1.4: http://retroweaver.sf.net.
Offline phazer

Junior Duke




Come get some


« Reply #66 - Posted 2005-03-15 14:06:26 »

Java is not open source (see http://www.opensource.org). I can only speak for me personally, but I'm much more willing to contribute to an open source project than a project with some restrictive license like Sun's.

Offline Vorax

Senior Duke


Projects: 1


System shutting down in 5..4..3...


« Reply #67 - Posted 2005-03-15 14:07:58 »

Quote

I think the "open-source issue" is a red herring, here. For all useful purposes, the JRE is already open-source. If you're interested in seeing bugs gets fixed in the JRE, or certain performance improvements being made, submit the source code changes to Sun. For example, I submitted source code fixes for performance problems in URLDecoder, and they are now in the 1.5 JRE, almost verbatim.

God bless,
-Toby Reyelts


That maybe true for the JRE, but not for the JIT.

Offline Mark Thornton

Senior Duke





« Reply #68 - Posted 2005-03-15 14:20:15 »

Quote


That maybe true for the JRE, but not for the JIT.

Why not? The source for the whole thing JIT included is available (although some don't like the licence). I'm sure that Sun would accept well considered improvements to the JIT just as readily as anywhere else.
Offline Vorax

Senior Duke


Projects: 1


System shutting down in 5..4..3...


« Reply #69 - Posted 2005-03-15 14:30:34 »

Oh, my mistake.  I didn't realize that was available.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Raghar

Junior Duke




Ue ni taete 'ru hitomi ni kono mi wa dou utsuru


« Reply #70 - Posted 2005-03-15 16:13:12 »

Quote
I suggest... you hire a games programmer on a contract to take care of this stuff for you. Seriously. I can't really believe that this hasn't already been done.

You'd need more than a game programmer, you'd need a game programmer with experience with writing compilers, and SSE2 optimalizations.

While I'm curently unemployed, I'm unsure if I would be up to that task. It's true that I didn't see JIT code for dial up reasons, but it might be pretty harsh to add something into in a way that it would be fast, don't break previous code, and don't break previous optimalizations.
Or could it be that Hotspot JIT is a nice and easy to work with, simple to update, and that on stack realocation problem with server VM was just because I used 4 cycles and 3 arrays? (-Xcompile worked however)
Offline Raghar

Junior Duke




Ue ni taete 'ru hitomi ni kono mi wa dou utsuru


« Reply #71 - Posted 2005-03-15 16:23:06 »

Quote
Java is not open source (see http://www.opensource.org). I can only speak for me personally, but I'm much more willing to contribute to an open source project than a project with some restrictive license like Sun's.


I would be unwilling to work under so restrictive licence as GPL. BSD is no problem for me, the problem is in GPL and LGPL.
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #72 - Posted 2005-03-24 01:27:27 »

Quote


Those sorts of optimizations take a lot of time and only help a small portion of the user population.  We're more interested in general overall performance, and writting hand tuned SSE2 for anything is a lot of work.  Don't worry, we're working on some cool stuff to help out with performance issues.


Well JPEG/PNG loading is used by a LOT of users.  And reducing the startup time (e.g. loading all those ImageIcons for my UI) was a stated goal at one point.

Not to mention the fact that you can just go buy a library from someone who has already done the assembly optimzations.  Intel has a performance library for all sorts of things, crypto, JPEG decoding, image processing...

There is no excuse for the poor JPEG codec, buy a decent codec, or make one from the Intel library and move on...  To have one that operates an order of magnitude slower than it should is just wrong.

I understand the focus on more general optimizations, but these are really easy things that can pay off huge.  (Obviously for games scaling and blitting with the graphics hardware is preferred to any software loop, but that isn't the only thing that can benfit from SSE2... like faster crypto, codecs, etc.)

Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #73 - Posted 2005-03-24 01:41:42 »

Quote
Java is not open source (see http://www.opensource.org). I can only speak for me personally, but I'm much more willing to contribute to an open source project than a project with some restrictive license like Sun's.


Who cares what http://www.opensource.org says?  I find their definition of "Open Source" include things that are very anti-corporation, anti-competition, anti-make-a-living, etc.  It's far too utopian.

As far as Java is concerned:
I can get the source. I can submit changes.  And thankfully there is a governing body (Sun) in place to make sure that not any dufus can screw everything up.  That fits my definition of open source 100%.

Sun has Java 6.0 available on Java.net with all the source code.  And they have officially stated that they are accepting patches.  Since we all know that we are going to get Java 6.0 for free, including any accepted patches, I don't see any reason why those screaming for "Open Source" don't just contribute and shut up.

Offline phazer

Junior Duke




Come get some


« Reply #74 - Posted 2005-03-24 06:13:40 »

Quote


Who cares what http://www.opensource.org says?  I find their definition of "Open Source" include things that are very anti-corporation, anti-competition, anti-make-a-living, etc.  It's far too utopian.


Have you even the read the info that's available on the site? They have accepted a number of licenses made by corporations like IBM, Sun, Nokia etc.

Instead of rambling about they being anti-X etc., provide details about what's wrong with their definition of open source. Maybe you can provide an alternative open source definition?

Quote

As far as Java is concerned:
I can get the source. I can submit changes.  And thankfully there is a governing body (Sun) in place to make sure that not any dufus can screw everything up.  That fits my definition of open source 100%.

You can call it whatever you like, but to most people that's not open source.

Quote

Sun has Java 6.0 available on Java.net with all the source code.  And they have officially stated that they are accepting patches.  Since we all know that we are going to get Java 6.0 for free, including any accepted patches, I don't see any reason why those screaming for "Open Source" don't just contribute and shut up.


You might not have a problem contributing for free to a code base that is owned by a commercial company, but many people have (me included). That's the core issue of open source, noone shall own the source code and tell you what you can do with it.

If I find a bug or design error in th JRE, I much rather create some alternative, free solution than contribute to the JRE code base.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 404
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #75 - Posted 2005-03-24 06:45:16 »

Quote
You might not have a problem contributing for free to a code base that is owned by a commercial company, but many people have (me included). That's the core issue of open source, noone shall own the source code and tell you what you can do with it.
That, I believe, is the core complaint the open source movement has with Sun's Java OS license.

Still no excuse for not fixing the JPEG library.

The funny thing about performance tuning is that general tuning isn't really any good. As we all know 90% of the time goes on 10% of the code. So why the focus on general optimisations when a few well-placed tweaks will speed up so many applications?

Cas Smiley

Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #76 - Posted 2005-03-24 16:14:48 »

Quote
You might not have a problem contributing for free to a code base that is owned by a commercial company, but many people have (me included). That's the core issue of open source, noone shall own the source code and tell you what you can do with it.


Maybe Sun will always own the source code, but I don't really have a problem with that. They have invested a lot in the actually quite excellent hotspot and are doing a pretty good job in maintaining the standard. We can still use their java implementation for free and build our own OS or commercial apps with it.
Maybe this is not fair or I just don't "get" OS, but when I think about popular OS projects, they all have something a bit messy about them (PHP, MySQL, Linux), esp. when it comes to forking, compatibility issues, etc.
As I see it, java has done quite well in that respect, so I think of the java license as something that maybe isn't utopia, but proven to work. And for a license of a product of a commercial company, it's very open and liberal. I don't care about owning the sources, I just want to get the job done.
Maybe I don't even *want* to own the sources.

</offtopic>

Offline phazer

Junior Duke




Come get some


« Reply #77 - Posted 2005-03-25 08:16:33 »

Ok, to highlight some problems with Sun's "open" license:

- Can you pick out parts of the JRE source code, build and distribute together with your product? Nope.

- Can you use the Java source code as base for creating a new improved Java library? Nope.

- If Sun wants to terminate Java, can you take the source code and continue to distribute the JRE? Nope.

That's not an open source license.

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #78 - Posted 2005-03-25 09:05:22 »

Quote


That's not an open source license.


Only by your personal definition of "open source" which is not the same as everyone else's.

/me is firmly in the camp that RMS is a political prat who has demonstrated a willingness and eagerness to "do a Gates" and try and bully, brainwash and guilt-trip everyone to his way of thinking because he's not rich enough to do it the way Gates did...

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline Raghar

Junior Duke




Ue ni taete 'ru hitomi ni kono mi wa dou utsuru


« Reply #79 - Posted 2005-03-25 19:50:39 »

Quote
Ok, to highlight some problems with Sun's "open" license:

- Can you pick out parts of the JRE source code, build and distribute together with your product? Nope.

- Can you use the Java source code as base for creating a new improved Java library? Nope.

- If Sun wants to terminate Java, can you take the source code and continue to distribute the JRE? Nope.

That's not an open source license.


Do you wanna to own a code of someone else, and do everything what you want with it?

Why are you talking about a source code? It doesn't matter if something is distributable in a source code, or in binaries.  Of course if you'd talk about improving and maintenance, I don't think you'd be able to do just by yourself.
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #80 - Posted 2005-03-26 03:07:17 »

Quote
Have you even the read the info that's available on the site? They have accepted a number of licenses made by corporations like IBM, Sun, Nokia etc.

Yes. So?
Take a look at the very first point of their definition of Open Source:
1. Free Redistribution

The license shall not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license shall not require a royalty or other fee for such sale


Translation - the people that put most of the work into the project must let any idiot that comes along give it away for free (to make it hard for you to make money) or make millions from your work (take the profits that you deserve).  No thanks.

Let's skip ahead to #3:
3. Derived Works

The license must allow modifications and derived works, and must allow them to be distributed under the same terms as the license of the original software.


Translation:  You must allow people to make incompatible Java runtimes and fork the community, development efforts, etc. so that it degrades into an unfocus mess.

It gets even more crazy:
9. License Must Not Restrict Other Software...

Where GPL clearly violates this, they make a pathetic attempt to say that it does not.  There explanation for why GPL conforms make no sense as they clearly state that GPL does not conform if you link GPL code to produce a "single work" ...

So basically the OSI has no credibility.

Take a look at the projects that attempt to make a living from open source - e.g. MySQL with it's dual-license model.  Sure we're open source, unless you try to make money - then we want a cut and OSI's defintion point #1 no longer applies.

Quote
- Can you pick out parts of the JRE source code, build and distribute together with your product? Nope.

what is your point?  Sun is business.  They aren't in business so you can steal the bits of their code that you want and put it in an unrelated product.  Why should Sun write your programs for you?

Quote
- Can you use the Java source code as base for creating a new improved Java library? Nope.

You sure can.  Did you miss the part about Sun accepting patches?  Oh, did you mean you want to compete with them by using their own code - for free?  Why on Earth would they want to do that? Sun licenses their code to competitors so they at least get something for their efforts.   Mind you I'm all for a clean-room implementation of Java that is Open Source - so long as it passes Sun's conformance tests.  I just don't see the point in Sun not keeping control of their product.

Quote
- If Sun wants to terminate Java, can you take the source code and continue to distribute the JRE? Nope.

You don't need the source code to distribute the JRE, so you have no point here.

Offline phazer

Junior Duke




Come get some


« Reply #81 - Posted 2005-03-26 08:08:05 »

There are two issues here:

- The definition of "open source". I assumed most people used the definition given on opensource.org. Apparently that's not the case. It seems your definition of open source is when you can see the source code and (optionally?) being able to submit patches (which might be rejected) to someone who mangage the code. Correct?

- If the Java source code should be released under a license that opensource.org can approve of. It seems you don't think that's necessary and that you are content with Sun's current licensing scheme.

We disagree on both accounts, so I don't see this discussion going anywhere.

Btw, RMS is talking about free software, not open source.

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #82 - Posted 2005-03-26 09:20:39 »

Quote

Btw, RMS is talking about free software, not open source.


RMS + cohorts and imitators deliberately started and worked hard to cultivate the redefinition of open-source in their own image. In RMS's case it suits him politically, in other people's cases they have other motivations. All are inherently selfish, no matter how much they wrap it up in "for the good of mankind" or "for the good of the economy". The biggest con is the marketing speak that "most licenses take rights away from you where GPL gives them back".

IMHO.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline HamsterofDeath

Junior Duke




Java games rock!


« Reply #83 - Posted 2005-04-21 11:49:27 »

i tried the benchmark (unmodified first version) on page 2 on a p4 2.8 ghz
result:
1  
2  
3  
4  
5  
6  
7  
8  
9  
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
sun 1.5.0_02 server Xcompile

Float: 2761 iterations / s
Double: 2760 iterations / s
Fixed point: 1378 iterations / s
2.9308171, 2.8822784, 2.9308173801885786


jrockit 1.5.0

Float: 2300 iterations / s
Double: 2299 iterations / s
Fixed point: 1381 iterations / s
2.9308174, 2.8822784, 2.9308173801885786

sun 1.50_02 hotspot Xcompile

Float: 939 iterations / s
Double: 948 iterations / s
Fixed point: 1218 iterations / s
2.9308171, 2.8822784, 2.9308173801885786


seems like jrockit doesn't rock that much, als floats arent faster.
Offline Raghar

Junior Duke




Ue ni taete 'ru hitomi ni kono mi wa dou utsuru


« Reply #84 - Posted 2005-04-21 16:07:18 »

It looks like they are forgeting to set the CPU state flag. Then again SSE instructions should work faster even without setting any flag.
Offline zingbat

Senior Duke




Java games rock!


« Reply #85 - Posted 2005-05-12 13:25:28 »

Quote
Or you can open source the JRE...   :-/


What he said. The advantages are so obvious.

Let me enumerate just a few:

-> security

No one relies on secret code anymore for security policies.

-> identification

If Sun wants to make sure people use their own version of the JRE and not something else they can sign it and provide a way for people to verify the signature.

-> specification

Most JRE apis follow a specification. People don't need to use Suns own code to verify that specification and make code that run in several flavors of open-source JREs. They would only have to suport the specification interfaces and constraints.

-> readability and maintainable code

Code that follows a strict specification is very easy to maintain without major issues. See java Swing for the wrong example.

-> marketing/sailings

Open-source is good for marketing and sailings. You can organize your code with independent modules with different copyrights. Some can be open-source others can have a different license. They can be mixed together within a pluggable architecture.

-> bug tracking

Bugs get tracked faster when there is a big community support for an open source project.

-> independence

If something happens to Sun JRE it doesn't have any repercussion on the others JREs. Its not the kill-switch for every other JRE.

Sun can still follow their own development schedulle but others do not have to depend on their development pace.

IMO the only reason why Sun doesn't want to OS Java is because they would have an hard time controling development pace and the proliferation of several JREs that would be better than Suns own solution. Thus Sun is trying to run away from competition.

However i think it would be naive to expect that Sun would Open-Source Java. Just look at some of the code they make for the JRE. If people here can so easly point out faults in their code imagine how people would humiliate Sun coders in their own field if it was Open-Source. How would they make any money from it ?

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #86 - Posted 2005-05-12 14:36:13 »

A few thoughts, although I can't help but thing that you're trolling.

Quote

No one relies on secret code anymore for security policies.


My old security professor keynoted at the international C++ conference only a few weeks ago with a talk about how this has no effect at all on actual security (and appealed for more organizations to open up their private databases to allow him and others to conduct research to conclusively prove this on a large scale).

Quote

If Sun wants to make sure people use their own version of the JRE and not something else they can sign it and provide a way for people to verify the signature.


You've completely missed the point of Marketing, trademark law, and everything to do with the fact that people don't much care what's on the box, rather "if it looks about right I'll use it".

Quote

Most JRE apis follow a specification. People don't need to use Suns own code to verify that specification and make code that run in several flavors of open-source JREs. They would only have to suport the specification interfaces and constraints.


Again, go and see how this happens in the real-world. Sun's certification process that has for so long been decried as too arduous is far far too easy to pass with a broken system.

Quote

You can organize your code with independent modules with different copyrights. Some can be open-source others can have a different license. They can be mixed together within a pluggable architecture.


Speaking as someone who has been in charge of making decisions for multi-million dollar systems, your paragraph above translates to:

"will waste so much of my time having to ask the legal dept what I can and cannot use, where I can use it, how I can use it, and what I'm allowed to let my team work on that I'd rather code the whole thing myself by hand in assembler"

People don't have time to live in a fairytale world where they have infinite resource and inifinte time to make up for all the crap and confusion. They need easier solutions.

Quote

Bugs get tracked faster when there is a big community support for an open source project.


...but get fixed much much slower. Net result is not necessarily better and often worse.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline zingbat

Senior Duke




Java games rock!


« Reply #87 - Posted 2005-05-12 17:58:28 »

Quote
A few thoughts, although I can't help but thing that you're trolling.


Huh Since when expressing an opinion is trolling Huh

Quote

My old security professor keynoted at the international C++ conference only a few weeks ago with a talk about how this has no effect at all on actual security (and appealed for more organizations to open up their private databases to allow him and others to conduct research to conclusively prove this on a large scale).


Point taken then.

Quote

You've completely missed the point of Marketing, trademark law, and everything to do with the fact that people don't much care what's on the box, rather "if it looks about right I'll use it".


You completely missed the point of my certification argument. It has nothing to do with trademark laws.

And blah you know that the SUN logo is about 90% the reason people use java and not another vm don't you ?

Quote

Again, go and see how this happens in the real-world. Sun's certification process that has for so long been decried as too arduous is far far too easy to pass with a broken system.


I was talking about specification not certification.

Quote

Speaking as someone who has been in charge of making decisions for multi-million dollar systems, your paragraph above translates to:

"will waste so much of my time having to ask the legal dept what I can and cannot use, where I can use it, how I can use it, and what I'm allowed to let my team work on that I'd rather code the whole thing myself by hand in assembler"

People don't have time to live in a fairytale world where they have infinite resource and inifinte time to make up for all the crap and confusion. They need easier solutions.


Then you haven't read my paragraph and do not understand the application of modular architectures. Frankly blah this time i think its you who are trolling here. Java uses modular and pluggable architectures in many of its extensions with great benefits.

An advice don't use arguments like: "Speaking as someone who has been in charge of making decisions for multi-million dollar systems". It doesn't bring you any credibility or anything good.

Quote

...but get fixed much much slower. Net result is not necessarily better and often worse.


I don't see your logic here. So if more people involved in helping track bugs then bugs get fixed slower. Strange it doesn't happen with linux which is widely used as the os of choice for servers because of its stability and robustness.

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #88 - Posted 2005-05-12 20:15:53 »

Quote

Huh Since when expressing an opinion is trolling Huh


When you repeat specious claims that have been aired many times over and done to death, and have on the same day shown the attitude of "when people have explained it, I still don't believe them". Shrug. The thing about a troll is you can never be sure when it is or not Tongue.

Quote

You completely missed the point of my certification argument. It has nothing to do with trademark laws.


You could explain what you mean and I'd try to understand, and I could explain in more detail next time. What I was referring to was that the purpose behind trademark laws is to make up for the fact that people make decisions based on spurious similarities, and it's very easy to confuse the consumer.

Even today, mostly no consumer gives a monkey's whose VM they use, even those who can't run any java apps because they have the broken, unsupported, withdrawn MS VM.

Quote

And blah you know that the SUN logo is about 90% the reason people use java and not another vm don't you ?


That thinking is part of the point I was making, although I think you'll find that your actual statement is misleading. Most people don't look at the logo, and if they had to choose beteween a Sun one and a MS one would probably choose the latter because more people have heard of MS. Consumers are fickle and stupid; or, at least, en masse they act that way.

Quote

I was talking about specification not certification.


Certification consists of specification. Again, feel free to explain what you mean and hilight what I misunderstood.

Quote

An advice don't use arguments like: "Speaking as someone who has been in charge of making decisions for multi-million dollar systems". It doesn't bring you any credibility or anything good.


Yes, it does, because you make statements like this:
Quote

I don't see your logic here. So if more people involved in helping track bugs then bugs get fixed slower. Strange it doesn't happen with linux which is widely used as the os of choice for servers because of its stability and robustness.


...which show you lack large-project or commercial experience. We're talking about the basics, the 101 of tech project mangement here, and you have no idea about them. There's a statement about not arguing with the ignorant because they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience; I'm not going to spend the next week patiently explaining to you basic aspects of project management that, if you really cared about this subject, are well within your ability to go and research for yourself. And are grossly off-topic for a java games development board.

And, in a similar vein, this:

Quote

Then you haven't read my paragraph and do not understand the application of modular architectures. Frankly blah this time i think its you who are trolling here. Java uses modular and pluggable architectures in many of its extensions with great benefits.


Get with the program: no-one gives a **** about whether the API's plug together if the licensing issues are even mildly scary. It really is as simple as that. Until you have at least a basic understanding of the decision making process behind real projects you'll only have two options in this conversation: trust the people who've spent decades doing this and know what they're talking about, or refuse to believe them and keep on stating your "opinions" as if they had relevance. (which, of course, is exactly what a troll would do).

I really don't mean any offence, but - apparently out of pure ignorance - you're spouting rubbish and/or ignoring the plain commonly known facts.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline Jeff

JGO Coder




Got any cats?


« Reply #89 - Posted 2005-05-12 21:00:02 »

This seems to have devolved into an open source debate, which is rather off-topic.  is it time to move it to a more apporpriate forum?

Got a question about Java and game programming?  Just new to the Java Game Development Community?  Try my FAQ.  Its likely you'll learn something!

http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Games/JeffFAQ
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Add your game by posting it in the WIP section,
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Longarmx (45 views)
2014-10-17 03:59:02

Norakomi (36 views)
2014-10-16 15:22:06

Norakomi (27 views)
2014-10-16 15:20:20

lcass (31 views)
2014-10-15 16:18:58

TehJavaDev (61 views)
2014-10-14 00:39:48

TehJavaDev (61 views)
2014-10-14 00:35:47

TehJavaDev (51 views)
2014-10-14 00:32:37

BurntPizza (67 views)
2014-10-11 23:24:42

BurntPizza (39 views)
2014-10-11 23:10:45

BurntPizza (81 views)
2014-10-11 22:30:10
Understanding relations between setOrigin, setScale and setPosition in libGdx
by mbabuskov
2014-10-09 22:35:00

Definite guide to supporting multiple device resolutions on Android (2014)
by mbabuskov
2014-10-02 22:36:02

List of Learning Resources
by Longor1996
2014-08-16 10:40:00

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-08-05 19:33:27

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:20:17

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:19:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:29:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:26:06
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