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  Looking To Develop a 2D game for Yahoo  (Read 2505 times)
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Offline bryanedds

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Posted 2005-02-03 04:35:42 »

Hi, I'm looking to develop a 2D puzzle game for Yahoo!

I am looking for the best 2D Java game engine available for under $300. Alternatively, I hear Macromedia Flash is a possibility. Please tell me what you think is the best high-level 2D game engine to use in either Java or Flash or even Shockwave.

Thank you,
Bryan Edds
Offline Valodim

Junior Member




*sigh*


« Reply #1 - Posted 2005-02-03 15:15:55 »

a 2d puzzle game? for simple stuff like that, the (free) JDK should be enough Tongue
Offline Tzan

Junior Member





« Reply #2 - Posted 2005-02-03 15:43:02 »

You got a job to program a game for Yahoo and you dont program?

I really need to network more.
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Offline bryanedds

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #3 - Posted 2005-02-03 20:14:46 »

What makes you think I don't know how to program? Also, I do not have a job - I'm doing this on my own.

I would like to use some manner of 2D game API so I don't have to interface directly with Java's 2D library. It's a very difficult library to use, and I don't want to reinvent any wheels. So please, if anyoen can recommend a 2D web game library for Java, Flash, or Shockwave, let me know.

thanks
Offline allan_s

Senior Newbie




pwned


« Reply #4 - Posted 2005-02-03 20:56:09 »

I dunno about difficult to use... IMHO it's very easy to use.  I don't think I've seen any 2D graphics packages that are developed well enough to base a commercial game off of - most people just use the JDK.  If you compare Java to other major programming languages, the JDK does a very good job of providing easy ways to get decent graphical output. All of the games I've seen on Yahoo wouldn't need any special libraries to develop easily.  If you think Java is difficult to use for your task, I would suggest looking into Flash or Shockwave instead - I've never used them myself, but I've heard that they're very easy to work with.

Offline bryanedds

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2005-02-03 21:57:09 »

It's not really difficult per say, it's just that I find all of Java's standard libraries to be a huge pain in the arse Cheesy
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #6 - Posted 2005-02-04 01:38:47 »

Quote
It's not really difficult per say, it's just that I find all of Java's standard libraries to be a huge pain in the arse Cheesy


You should definitly go with Flash or shockwave then  Wink .
Offline bryanedds

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2005-02-04 02:36:27 »

I'm wondering which has speedier 2D rendering capabilities - a Java interpreted code program or a Flash program?
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #8 - Posted 2005-02-04 02:45:45 »

Quote
I'm wondering which has speedier 2D rendering capabilities - a Java interpreted code program or a Flash program?


Java isn't interpreted anymore (only on startup). The code is about as fast as C++. However, if you want to use stoneage 1.0/1.1 java... bad luck - it's interpreted and also lacks any (graphics) acceleration.

I would say that Flash and java 1.0/1.1 are about equally slow, but you can tweak java more. So if you're willing to put alot more work in, you'll get more speed with java. (However, writing simple 1.4+ code would be much easier and alot faster).

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline bryanedds

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2005-02-04 02:57:22 »

Really? Java isn't interpreted on the fly by the JVM anymore? When did this happen? :O

So it's all compiled when the program starts? It's all compiled to machine bytecode that the CPU can read? I just want to make sure - this is one heck of a big development for Java! Can the default JDK code access video hardware directly on Windows via DX or OGL, or does that take a special library? I heard Java games rendering is extremely slow, but if it can access either the DX or OGL interface, there should be no reason for that - especially if it's compiled to byte code on startup.

I must be totally out of date on Java. The last I used it was 1.3 I think. It was still REALLY slow back then.
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Offline tom
« Reply #10 - Posted 2005-02-04 03:07:37 »

For god sake, have you never heard of JIT? It's been this way since java 1.1. The first hotspot vm that came out with java 1.2 was horrible though. It was on the same level as interpreted code. The ms 1.1 vm used jit and was pretty fast.

Java2D uses directx behind the scenes. It's a bit tricky to get it to work. The performance is good if you limit yourself on what you do. Transparency is bad m'kay.


Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #11 - Posted 2005-02-04 03:24:54 »

JIT (just in time) compilation was added with 1.2 (iirc). That thing was tuned several times and is now called hotspot. And yes, it's compiled down to native code Wink

>Can the default JDK access video hardware directly on
>Windows via DX or OGL, or does that take a special library?

Something like that, yes. Just use java2d and try to get a managed compatible image. Java will then try to get that accelerated (eg with ddraw/d3d on windows and since 1.5 there is another *testing* opengl pipeline).

What works pretty well these days are games, which use opaque or bitmasked images with less than 2^16 pixels (eg 256x256). You can for example throw all hud elements into one 256x256 (or smaller) image and then pull out sub regions of that via getSubimage (for avoiding context switches). If you don't use translucent images its a piece of cake to get 60+fps on damn old hardware (like 500mhz + some half decent graphics card).

If you take a look at the 4k games you might be a bit dissapointed by the shown performance. Heh. Just keep in mind that they are optimized for size and not for speed. My game could look much better and at the same time run more than 3 times faster, but there wasn't any room for that Wink

And there are also 3rd party opengl bindings for java (lwjgl/jogl), which can be used to write high performance opengl applications/games. Check out the games over at puppygames Smiley

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline bryanedds

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2005-02-04 03:25:14 »

I've heard of JIT, but I don't know how it works. Is that what the JVMs use by default nowadays? Are all Java applets compiled to machine code on startup by default, or must that be specified somehow? Do I have to use a special compiler, or can I use the free one from Sun?

Remember, the game must run in an applet from the internet, and not from an exe.
Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #13 - Posted 2005-02-04 03:46:56 »

http://www.gamelizard.com

Those are all games I've developed and you can see they're all Applets.  I developed them with just the jdk, and that's really all you need.


Admin and Game Developer at
GameLizard.com
Play Rimscape!    |    Play Conquer!
Offline bryanedds

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #14 - Posted 2005-02-04 10:50:53 »

I am considering the Shaven Puppy Game Library. Anyone here use that?
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 85
Projects: 22


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #15 - Posted 2005-02-04 10:53:56 »

I think Cas might have used it once or twice.

Kev

Offline tom
« Reply #16 - Posted 2005-02-04 12:32:39 »

Quote
JIT (just in time) compilation was added with 1.2 (iirc).

The sun vm used a jit in the 1.1.8 version and probably in some of the previous one aswell.

Quote
I am considering the Shaven Puppy Game Library. Anyone here use that?

Then you can't use applets because spgl uses LJWGL. You can use webstart instead. Is that an option?

Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #17 - Posted 2005-02-04 12:42:53 »

well, you can using the swing/awt adapter, ofcourse it's not as fast, but probably fast enough for an applet game ?

Offline bryanedds

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #18 - Posted 2005-02-04 15:59:48 »

Quote

Then you can't use applets because spgl uses LJWGL. You can use webstart instead. Is that an option?


Are you sure? It seems like puppygames has an applet right on their website that uses LWJGL which has a game called Puppy Invaders - http://puppygames.net/

It runs right from the web in the Internet Explorer, so I assume it's an applet of some sort...
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #19 - Posted 2005-02-04 17:02:00 »

>It seems like puppygames has an applet right on their
>website that uses LWJGL which has a game called Puppy
>Invaders

Nah... that's just plain awt Smiley

46.0... that's like... java 1.1?

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline bryanedds

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #20 - Posted 2005-02-04 22:06:07 »

Quote
well, you can using the swing/awt adapter, ofcourse it's not as fast, but probably fast enough for an applet game ?


Can you tell me what this Swing / AWT adapter is in detail? I've never heard of it, or what precisely it's for.
Offline tom
« Reply #21 - Posted 2005-02-04 22:26:06 »

LWJGL is completely independant of swing/awt. The adapter is a workaround. But it don't matter. You can't use LWJGL in an applet without torturing the user.

If your making a applet game for yahoo I suggest you stick to java 1.1 to maximize the number of petensial players. (...waits for blahblahblah to argue about this agian)

I would use Flash or Shockwave if I were you.

Offline magemog

Senior Newbie




Jaded Samurai


« Reply #22 - Posted 2005-02-05 01:54:51 »

For your purposes flash or shockwave is definately the way to go.  

Hmm... sounds vaguely familiar... yeah
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