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  Reviving Mini Adventure  (Read 20683 times)
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Offline krypto

Junior Duke




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« Posted 2005-01-13 14:13:42 »

Hell All... After a long sabatical from posting.... I always read the posts. Grin I have decided to go full on back into Java Game Programming. Part of that venture will be to revive and continue Kevin Glass' Lights of Laminos project. I have been in contact w/ Kevin.. who has been very helpful and giving me the source Code. I'm trying to drum up support for this because I understand I need to so I can get a project accepted on javagaming for cvs and whatnot. Please help me out. I don't know what to do next to get the ball rolling.


Cool Cool Cool

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Offline kevglass

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« Reply #1 - Posted 2005-01-13 14:37:56 »

Might be worth saying that the project is at least partly up and running. The reason for the project losing speed in its last incarnation wasn't a technical issue just simply a lack of commitment by me :/

It is true to say that its:

a) A fairly unique project (not much in the way of multiplayer RPGMaker out there yet)
b) Easy for multiple people to work on
c) A fun and impressive project on completion
d) Covers alot of gaming areas (data management/networking/tools/scripting)
e) A great candidate for a games middleware if the community want it to go that way (Grex? Sun Games Server?)

Infact in many ways its a project that the community has been asking for, an online realtime area in which people can interact. It just happens to have an RPG game thrown in for good measure.

So, personally I think this more than meets the criteria for a java gaming community project. It might even allow some of the members with a slightly lurking tendancy Wink to get involved in something.

Kev

PS. Krypto - have you had any thoughts about where to go first?

Offline krypto

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« Reply #2 - Posted 2005-01-13 15:00:04 »

Quote

PS. Krypto - have you had any thoughts about where to go first?


Well I want to get the project and resources into cvs ( need a project) .. I do still still have my KRPG project but I didn't want to change your games heritage.  Wink I will probably concentrate most on the tools first. I really want to add item support to the maps/tools. Then from there I think the magic and combat system.


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Offline Malohkan

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« Reply #3 - Posted 2005-01-13 15:55:13 »

Interesting.  I'd love to help out with a big project.  Could you share a summary of what's expected of the project?  I'd like to see some goals or mock screenshots or something.

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Offline krypto

Junior Duke




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« Reply #4 - Posted 2005-01-13 15:59:21 »

You can already see screenshots as it exists now.

http://laminos.newdawnsoftware.com/index.php?page=media

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Offline Malohkan

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« Reply #5 - Posted 2005-01-13 19:10:43 »

Oh wow that's too cool!  I'd love to help out with that project Smiley  How do I get involved?

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Offline krypto

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« Reply #6 - Posted 2005-01-14 06:42:44 »

Right now I guess I'll just collect names/addresses. In about a week I hope to have the project set up with cvs. Does anyone know what to do to get the project rolling on the java gaming projects page? Or Should I consider SourceForge ?

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Offline z.e.r.o

Junior Duke




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« Reply #7 - Posted 2005-01-14 16:20:27 »

Well, I like to contribute, too.

I worked on one of the first incarnations of POL (an Ultima Online Server) and It's a lot of time since I was involved in a no-profit game without having to worry about contracts and deadlines (and following payments that always arrive late).

Matteo Anelli
.brain - http://www.dot-brain.com
Offline krypto

Junior Duke




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« Reply #8 - Posted 2005-01-15 11:50:29 »

Quote
Well, I like to contribute, too.


Noted... And I will let you know once I have CVS ect.

Does anyone know how to get a project proposal posted?

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Offline kevglass

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« Reply #9 - Posted 2005-01-15 12:28:03 »

You need to post on the appropriate mailing list or something...

This should help you out:

http://www.java.net/request_project.csp

Kev

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Offline krypto

Junior Duke




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« Reply #10 - Posted 2005-01-18 07:36:20 »

I'm ready to post/apply for a new project. What should the name be. I don't want to steal Kevin's glory by changing the name... But when this project is done it will hopefully be more than just mini adventure. More like a java RPG maker.... JRPG or what does everyone else think. I can't get a project untill I submit the name. If nobody replies I'll just pick one and run with it. No use wasting time on something like that. Grin

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Offline kevglass

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« Reply #11 - Posted 2005-01-18 08:03:05 »

I have no problem with a name change. If anything it keeps the current state for posterity.

Kev

Offline krypto

Junior Duke




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« Reply #12 - Posted 2005-01-18 08:14:34 »

Quote
I have no problem with a name change. If anything it keeps the current state for posterity.

Kev



Good to know.. I'll post for a project by COB today. On A side note I have benn tweeking the tileset build (figured I start from the base and move up.) It's looking good. I added menus to clean up the GUI a bit and added zoom functionality and a seperate tile preview panel.

I think the editors should someday run stand alone as well as in "IDE mode"  the uber editor that lets a user create the games that JRPG will run. This will be the most versatile. What do You think Kevin?

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Offline kevglass

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Medals: 188
Projects: 24
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« Reply #13 - Posted 2005-01-18 08:18:36 »

I liked all your ideas about integrating the toolset into one great tool that allows you to pull data back and forth. Keeping it modular has to be a good idea, but at this stage you might consider not worrying about it to much since you could always refactor into an IDE framework once you have some solid usecases to test against.

Kev

Offline krypto

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« Reply #14 - Posted 2005-01-18 08:30:36 »

Quote
....but at this stage you might consider not worrying about it to much since you could always refactor into an IDE framework once you have some solid usecases to test against.
Kev


Good Point... Just me getting excited I guess. Anyways The tools will we fixed cleaned up as we go. Then Later We'll give birth to the IDE. Kevin.. Could you give a list of what's currently working in the tools/game as originally intended, and what need work/implementation yet. I'm trying to compile a list of tasks, because son many people are willing to help. I'd like everyone to be able to have something.

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Offline kevglass

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Medals: 188
Projects: 24
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« Reply #15 - Posted 2005-01-18 09:19:40 »

Sure.. give me a day or so. I'll need to think about this one Smiley

Oh.. and do remind me Smiley

Kev

Offline krypto

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« Reply #16 - Posted 2005-01-18 09:26:07 »

OH I Will.... Cheesy

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Offline z.e.r.o

Junior Duke




Java games rock!


« Reply #17 - Posted 2005-01-18 13:35:21 »

The IDE concept is indeed really nice

Matteo Anelli
.brain - http://www.dot-brain.com
Offline krypto

Junior Duke




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« Reply #18 - Posted 2005-01-19 07:39:57 »

Just a side note, is it a bad idea for my package names to be something like org.javagaming.jrpg ? since I really want to stress how this project belongs to the community.



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Offline z.e.r.o

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Java games rock!


« Reply #19 - Posted 2005-01-20 06:33:22 »

again, it's a good idea

Matteo Anelli
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Offline kevglass

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Medals: 188
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Exp: 18 years


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« Reply #20 - Posted 2005-01-20 09:25:50 »

Things that I would have done next:

a) Bring in weather effects (part of what scuppered me). I wanted to port to LWJGL but I think that might be outside of the scope of what you're trying to do.

b) Night and Day.

c) Expand and Develop conversation/quest engine. It was very much based on some XML we talked about here. I liked it for its simplicity but the GUI designer was awful.

d) Monster spawning, how.. when.. how to prevent overflow.

e) Combat

Melee - do this first. Problem is that due to server lag players might have slightly different views of the distances between people. There needs to be significant thought into how the combat system should work.  My thought was that if you froze the played at the begining and then allowed them to submit commands to their "Combat Queue". As server time progressed the server would action parts of these commands for you.. i.e. I want to walk to that point, then shoot at him. However, this gets weird when you start considering that monsters need to be involved too. One thing I reakon is fairly important is both the player and the target (be it human or not) get frozen and the control system changes at combat start. However, this means there _MUST_ be an option to disallow PVP combat for the player.. i.e. to prevent people just freezing you when you're walking past.

Combat as I see it was the most significant missing part. Once Melee is sorted I think ranged combat and likewise magic will fall into the system happily.

Ramblings:

Finally - Maps. The world of laminos was kinda thought out and the first area you saw was Riverside. Now, I'm not expecting you to use my ideas here but you will need at least one person put in charge of building a world with background and story. I would suggest setting up two independant mailing lists, one for development and one for world creation (assuming of course you've already got folks wanting to join in Wink)

This brings me to (uh, I said Finally, ah well).. travel between areas. I had great plans for warp gates, boats and coaches to allow you travel between areas without walking. For instance, the river running through Riverside was added to allow me to put a ferryman that could take you south to the next land section. Of course you could walk down the paths and off the edge of the screen to the next area but I reakon their should be a danger quota involved in doing this (robbed by bandits on the way).

I really liked the idea of getting in a coach for a ride to City X.. a randomly generated encouter on the way means you (and your fellow coach mates) have to fight off some hoard before getting back on the road.

Oh.. also. The code is currently designed to support spawning areas to allow personal and group adventures. If you go to the king for instance, ask for a quest he may send you on a mission (by escorting you, or teleporting you) into a seperate area that only your group are in. This way you can have a personal adventure while still being part of the overall world (see Anarchy Online).

I hope this gives you some idea of the direction I was hoping to go.. I'm not saying that any of the these ideas should be used, just background might help.

Sorry for the long post.

Kev

Offline krypto

Junior Duke




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« Reply #21 - Posted 2005-01-20 12:05:28 »

Still waiting for my project to be aproved...  Sad I did however set it up and put the code into cvs, If peolpe other than I can see it it is at : https://jrpg.dev.java.net/ there are screenshots there thanks to Kevin's old site. Could somebody try that link and see if they can see the site?

Here is a screenie of the cleaned up tileset Builder
Click to Play


...sorry guess I couldn't link it in. I don't have a ftp site anywhere at the moment. Anyways the site mentioned above has the Screenshots. Grin

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Offline kevglass

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Medals: 188
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« Reply #22 - Posted 2005-01-20 12:18:57 »

Nope, no luck. Permissions limited... actually means projects isn't approved.

Kev

Offline krypto

Junior Duke




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« Reply #23 - Posted 2005-01-20 12:45:28 »

Quote
Things that I would have done next:

a) Bring in weather effects (part of what scuppered me). I wanted to port to LWJGL but I think that might be outside of the scope of what you're trying to do.

b) Night and Day.


For Now This can wait, but I hope that we code so that we are bound to our rendering method as little as possible, that way we can change it latter, or someone can work on the rendering port in parallel with other development.

Quote

c) Expand and Develop conversation/quest engine. It was very much based on some XML we talked about here. I liked it for its simplicity but the GUI designer was awful.

I agree w/ this and will work hard to complete the authoring tools as we go. Any feedback as to how they work now and things to keep in mind will be greatly appreciated. As you lknow I implemented my own xml/dialog system so I should be able to pick up on this fairly quickly.


Quote

d) Monster spawning, how.. when.. how to prevent overflow.


Also to consider... are the monsters invisible ala early Final Fantasy where you run into them then go into combat mode? or are they regular actors?

Quote

e) Combat

Melee - do this first. Problem is that due to server lag players might have slightly different views of the distances between people. There needs to be significant thought into how the combat system should work.  My thought was that if you froze the played at the begining and then allowed them to submit commands to their "Combat Queue". As server time progressed the server would action parts of these commands for you.. i.e. I want to walk to that point, then shoot at him. However, this gets weird when you start considering that monsters need to be involved too. One thing I reakon is fairly important is both the player and the target (be it human or not) get frozen and the control system changes at combat start. However, this means there _MUST_ be an option to disallow PVP combat for the player.. i.e. to prevent people just freezing you when you're walking past.

Combat as I see it was the most significant missing part. Once Melee is sorted I think ranged combat and likewise magic will fall into the system happily.


This will probably be one of the harder things to do,..., One thing to consider could be to have the "queue" defined in xml on the fly. That way we could also have "Pre-Scripted" battles.

Quote

Finally - Maps. The world of laminos was kinda thought out and the first area you saw was Riverside. Now, I'm not expecting you to use my ideas here but you will need at least one person put in charge of building a world with background and story. I would suggest setting up two independant mailing lists, one for development and one for world creation (assuming of course you've already got folks wanting to join in Wink)

Already thinking that way... I'm hoping that the community will really take a liking to this and once we hhave some real solid code, develop new resources, including original artwork and release an entire game.


Quote

This brings me to (uh, I said Finally, ah well).. travel between areas. I had great plans for warp gates, boats and coaches to allow you travel between areas without walking. For instance, the river running through Riverside was added to allow me to put a ferryman that could take you south to the next land section. Of course you could walk down the paths and off the edge of the screen to the next area but I reakon their should be a danger quota involved in doing this (robbed by bandits on the way).

I really liked the idea of getting in a coach for a ride to City X.. a randomly generated encouter on the way means you (and your fellow coach mates) have to fight off some hoard before getting back on the road.


This shouldn't be that hard, for each vehicle defined use its sprite as the player or parties sprite and update postion acordingly.

Quote

Oh.. also. The code is currently designed to support spawning areas to allow personal and group adventures. If you go to the king for instance, ask for a quest he may send you on a mission (by escorting you, or teleporting you) into a seperate area that only your group are in. This way you can have a personal adventure while still being part of the overall world (see Anarchy Online).
I don't quite understand what your saying here.

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Offline dsellars

Junior Duke




Need to write more games


« Reply #24 - Posted 2005-01-20 13:29:27 »

Is it just me not seeing it or has this not appeared in Project Proposals?  thus no one can vote on it?

I think what Kev meant in the last paragraph was to have an area for an adventure that is spawned for a group of adventureres, if some one elses gets the same adventure given to them, they get their own unique area rather than joining the same one.  thus multiple people can do the same adventure.

One thing anarchy does as well is use the same entrance for lots of different missions, each time the layout of the interior is different though.  I didn't like keep getting different missins in the same place all the time though Wink

Dan.  
Offline krypto

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« Reply #25 - Posted 2005-01-20 14:33:04 »

I completed the project request form,... I don't know why the Post hasn't been made yet. I thought the moderator of that forum did that after he recieved my form. Huh

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Offline wooD

Senior Newbie




J2ME Developer


« Reply #26 - Posted 2005-01-24 15:30:41 »

I'm interested in this project as well. Please inform me when the project is approved and public.

Thanks,
Wood

Offline krypto

Junior Duke




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« Reply #27 - Posted 2005-01-24 17:18:26 »

Will Do, I'm just waiting for them to put up my request in Project Proposals. I am relly anxious to, But at least I can work on it in the interim. Cool

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Offline SpuTTer

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« Reply #28 - Posted 2005-01-24 18:38:00 »

Its up...

Sacramento Volleyball
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Offline krypto

Junior Duke




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« Reply #29 - Posted 2005-01-24 19:07:10 »

Quote
Its up...

Grin Grin Grin

http://www.java-gaming.org/cgi-bin/JGNetForums/YaBB.cgi?board=Proposals;action=display;num=1106602031

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