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Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 159
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #60 - Posted 2005-01-20 05:16:29 »

Kzip is giving me around 48% I think, but I've not got the figures here to check.

Kev

Offline mlk

Junior Member




Muppet!


« Reply #61 - Posted 2005-01-20 22:18:59 »

Does bz2 output jar-compatable files?

Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #62 - Posted 2005-01-21 00:31:05 »

jar=zip and zip has a bzip2 mode (and copy... and deflate [default] and deflate64).

Hm. But it isn't any good anyways.

The p200/gzip combo is much better. (Pack200 saves alot!)

3424 bytes for my game... instead of 4094 (jarg+kzip and the image was even external!)

# The presentation (jar, class, or other) does not matter, as long as the code can be directly run from the shell.
# The target JRE is 1.5.


So. Uhm... we could actually use that... right?

Gah... a half k (670+2 bytes actually)... I could have done so much with that Roll Eyes

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline mlk

Junior Member




Muppet!


« Reply #63 - Posted 2005-01-21 00:44:46 »

I though bz2 was a different beasty all togther. But I could be wrong. I ofton am  Cry

Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #64 - Posted 2005-01-22 05:21:09 »

bz2 does not create .jars, indeed it can only compress single files.

I have found that 7zip with compression set to max, and the algo set to zip (so its jar compatable) created a smaller .zip file than bzip2 could a bz2 file, with the advantage that it is a .jar.  About 55% compression I think.  Additionally the overhead for the 7zip created archive was very small (about 70 bytes).

Will.

Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #65 - Posted 2005-01-22 06:51:17 »

1.4 chain:
-compile
-jar (doesn't matter if it's stored or compressed)
-obfuscate (eg jarg or jax->jarg)
-extract
[-decompile]
[-check if there's still stuff which should be inlined]
[-if so change it and goto 1]
-jar (7zip max or kzip[usually better] and compare if it's smaller than the jar from step 3)

That one left 2 bytes... and the image had to be external.

1.5 chain (1.5/webstart only and you need some serversided script for serving it):
-compile
-jar (doesn't matter if it's stored or compressed)
-obfuscate (eg jarg or jax->jarg)
-extract
[-decompile]
[-check if there's still stuff which should be inlined]
[-if so change it and goto 1]
-jar (store)
-pack200 (--no-gzip)
-gz(max eg with 7zip)

That one left 672 bytes... and the image was also included.

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 159
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #66 - Posted 2005-01-22 13:05:50 »

Another one:

T4XI!

http://games.cokeandcode.com/4k/city4k/city4k.jnlp
http://games.cokeandcode.com/4k/city4k/city4k.jar
Main-Class: R

I'm seriously considering not entering anymore, just carry on writing them anyway! Smiley

Kev

Offline woogley
« Reply #67 - Posted 2005-01-22 14:53:38 »

game list updated.. I had to make an alternative launcher for T4XI, because games.cokeandcode.com still doesnt work for me. Hope you dont mind kev Tongue
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 159
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #68 - Posted 2005-01-22 14:59:42 »

No problem.. as long as it works.. I'm really getting worried about that domain.

Some people got, some people don't...

Kev

Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 159
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #69 - Posted 2005-01-23 08:29:04 »

Working with images is a right git isn't it? I've tried SuperPackME but it doesn't seem to do me any good.

Anyone got any tips? I've got an indexed image with 23 colours at size 80x32. I can just fit it in but at the expense of game features Sad

Kev

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Online princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 367
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #70 - Posted 2005-01-23 09:26:48 »

Yeah, make it 40x32 instead Wink

Cas Smiley

Offline jojoh

JGO Knight


Medals: 5
Projects: 7


games4j.com


« Reply #71 - Posted 2005-01-23 13:49:59 »

Cas is right, but why stop there? Make it 16 or even 8 colors and 40x16 or even smaller. Should save some space, and if you then scale it up when drawing, it will give the game a nice retro feel. In Late 4K I ripped my own old gfx from atari, and scaled it by a factor 2.234324... or something, and still works sort of OK.

Has anybody tried to generate images ("sprites") in code? How has that been compared to loading huge images (>150B Smiley)

Offline ap_kelly

Junior Member




Java rocks!


« Reply #72 - Posted 2005-01-23 19:29:06 »

My Super Sprint 4k clone is still too large to enter, first I want to get the game working, then I'll concentrate on making it small. I'm currently using 7088 bytes, which is 173% of the allowed size.

I'm going to be looking at having all images included in the code, therefore no image loading code is required, also no headers will be needed for stuff like PNGs so I should be able to save some space.

I also have lots of methods and static final variables, I think another thread mentions that I should inline everything into a single main method to reduce space, can anyone confirm this?

There is a great article on saving space in code, it takes a look at how to get Hello World down to 70bytes.
http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=37060&DE=1

I was wondering as well if 1.1 class files are smaller than 1.5 class files, has anyone tested compiling with a -target=1.1 flag to see if that helps? I'm not using any 1.5 features so this is a possibility for me.

Andy.

Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #73 - Posted 2005-01-23 22:31:43 »

Quote
Working with images is a right git isn't it? I've tried SuperPackME but it doesn't seem to do me any good.


How so? SuperPackME will probably give you about a 15% reduction (displayed as 85% reduction rate) with those images, plus it will compress even better. Be aware that even if the final result is near 100%, the JAR compression will still reduce it above and beyond the size of the PNG files.

Quote
Anyone got any tips? I've got an indexed image with 23 colours at size 80x32.


If you're using SuperPackME, split the images apart. That will save you from having to draw only parts of the image. i.e. You can use g.drawImage(image, x, y, observer) or g.drawImage(image, x, y, scaleWidth, scaleHeight, observer). Also make sure you're using 7Zip. I've tried KZip, but haven't gotten any improvement. I use 7Zip like this:

[code]7z a -tzip -mx=9 myzip.zip file.class META-INF/MANIFEST.MF

Quote
I can just fit it in but at the expense of game features Sad


That's always the tradeoff, isn't it? :-) Beware that your best results from SuperPackME are going to be from small images with few colors. It's best if you keep the colors per image below 16. :-)

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 159
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #74 - Posted 2005-01-24 16:37:43 »

Last one from me..

Webstart: http://games.cokeandcode.com/4k/hack4k/hack4k.jnlp

Jar: http://games.cokeandcode.com/4k/hack4k/hack4k.jar

Main-Class: H

Controls are:

Cursors - move character and attack
H - Heal yourself

Thanks for running the contest.. its been a brilliant kick start for me. All the source for my entries is available on the little java games site in my sig.

Thanks again,

Kev

Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #75 - Posted 2005-01-24 22:09:22 »

Quote
My Super Sprint 4k clone is still too large to enter, first I want to get the game working, then I'll concentrate on making it small. I'm currently using 7088 bytes, which is 173% of the allowed size.


I found it better not to do it that way, and if I wanted to add a feature then I had to optimise some stuff to get it in, else I can't have the feature (e.g. I don't have full screen mode Sad because it cost too much).


Will.

Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #76 - Posted 2005-01-24 22:21:43 »

Speaking of full screen, anyone got a better way of doing it (size wise) than I am?

I replace:
1  
2  
            f.setSize(1024,768);
            f.setVisible(true);


with
1  
2  
3  
4  
5  
6  
7  
            {
            GraphicsDevice gd = GraphicsEnvironment.getLocalGraphicsEnvironment().
                  getDefaultScreenDevice();
     
              gd.setFullScreenWindow(f);
               gd.setDisplayMode((new DisplayMode(1024, 768, 16, 60)));
              }


And it costs me 139 compressed (7zip, max zip compression) bytes.

f is my JFrame.

Will.

Offline ap_kelly

Junior Member




Java rocks!


« Reply #77 - Posted 2005-01-25 01:03:37 »

I'm of the opinion that I write the game that I'd like to play (nothing says I can't release the game after the comp at 150Kb) and then I take out all the bits I don't really need (fancy graphics) to get it under the 4k limit.

I too would like to thank the organisers, this comp has really lit a fire under my ass to get coding on small managable (see finishable) projects rather than working on huge unfinished stuff...I think Cas made this comment 3 years ago, I'm finally listening Cas!

I have a few ideas as well for other entries, so as soon as I finish this one, I'll start on the next, the current record for number of entries is currently 5 or 6 I think.

Andy.

Online princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 367
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #78 - Posted 2005-01-25 07:47:36 »

I wish I'd listen to myself some time  Lips Sealed

Cas Smiley

Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #79 - Posted 2005-01-25 22:29:36 »

it is good advice Smiley

Regarding the full screen stuff, I ended up taking out the "gd.setDisplayMode((new DisplayMode(1024, 768, 16, 60)));" call which saved a lot of bytes, and isn't so great on LCD monitors anyway (since they are best run at native resolution and there is no way I have enough space to make it user adjustable).

Will.

Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #80 - Posted 2005-01-29 18:24:57 »

Oh, am I supposed to post in this thread as well? I'm confused as to which thread / forum / site / etc is the official one, so I'll just link to my other entries:
http://www.java-gaming.org/cgi-bin/JGNetForums/YaBB.cgi?board=Announcements;action=display;num=1106689730
http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=579342&start=60&tstart=0
Smiley

Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 159
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #81 - Posted 2005-01-30 07:08:10 »

Having seen Markus's Dungeon4k I think I'm going to have to do another entry to have a chance of winnng Wink

If the game is to be client/server based.. does the server have to be inside the 4k too? Or just the client?

Kev

Offline mlk

Junior Member




Muppet!


« Reply #82 - Posted 2005-01-30 08:08:00 »

Client & Server, else you could just have a 4K VNC client, and a spankingly large server.

Now I've fixed my game from bluescreening random computers, and fixed the controls:

Stag Party 4k
It is your Stag Party, so your mates decided it would be a bit of a laugh to open up an interdimensional portal, and throw you through! Now you are stuck dimension where evil cubes are trying to kill you, and all you have to ward them of it Small Good Cubes that fire out of your eye balls.

Yeah, the plot sucks, but that is fine; so does the game!

Controls:
Rotate: Left/Right/Up/Down/Z/X
Fire: Space
Quit: Escape

Downloads




WebStarthttp://www.woogley.net/j4k/mlk/Mlk3D.jnlp
Exechttp://www.woogley.net/j4k/mlk/Mlk3D.jar
Srchttp://www.woogley.net/j4k/mlk/Mlk3D.html


A big Thanks to Woogley for the space! Grin

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #83 - Posted 2005-01-30 09:12:12 »

Quote
Having seen Markus's Dungeon4k I think I'm going to have to do another entry to have a chance of winnng Wink



Personally, I wouldn't necessarily say dungeon4k was even the best I've seen so far. It's good, and fun nostalgia, but I'm not sure why people are so wowed by it (I've seen much much more impressive graphics in 4k), and I'm judging by gameplay at the moment more than graphics.

For instance, I've seen animated reflective water in an FPS shooter in 4k. Um. Gameplay sucked, though.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline Danskeren

Senior Member


Projects: 1


oi?


« Reply #84 - Posted 2005-01-30 13:33:12 »

I just made my entry for the 4k contest: Step Stones 4k

http://www.java-gaming.org/cgi-bin/JGNetForums/YaBB.cgi?board=Announcements;action=display;num=1107076338;start=0#0

Offline jojoh

JGO Knight


Medals: 5
Projects: 7


games4j.com


« Reply #85 - Posted 2005-01-30 16:41:24 »

Quote
If the game is to be client/server based.. does the server have to be inside the 4k too? Or just the client?

Quote
Client & Server, else you could just have a 4K VNC client, and a spankingly large server.
Woogleys pages states:
Must be self-contained- no external resources (e.g. loading an image from a website)
Not absolutly clear, but looks like a both client and server would have to be within 4K.

I also wonder what the verdict on midi sound is... Guess that your game uses that Mlk, like Abuses previous entry to a 4K compo?

But the midi lib is not part of the distribution is it? Or have they baked that into 1.5?

If that is OK, I need to learn Midi in a hurry

Offline cyberyoyo

Junior Member




Java games funk


« Reply #86 - Posted 2005-01-30 18:56:27 »

I find all these 4k games awesome and for some reason they provide me with more entertainment than if they were full of 3d and songs and lalalas.
when this contest is over, why don't you guys compile all these 4k entries in one bigger game?
You could invent a meta-plot (for example an alien who must collect X prizes to get back home) with pretexes to play each mini-game.
Isn't that a good idea? Grin
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #87 - Posted 2005-01-30 22:50:42 »

Quote



Personally, I wouldn't necessarily say dungeon4k was even the best I've seen so far. It's good, and fun nostalgia, but I'm not sure why people are so wowed by it (I've seen much much more impressive graphics in 4k), and I'm judging by gameplay at the moment more than graphics.

For instance, I've seen animated reflective water in an FPS shooter in 4k. Um. Gameplay sucked, though.


I don't know why people were so wowed by it either.  I thought the graphics were pretty cool for 4k, but the gameplay wasn't that exciting.

Will.

Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #88 - Posted 2005-01-31 00:44:02 »

I'm impressed as hell because I've been trying to make a game with VERY simple 3d rendering.  :-/
Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #89 - Posted 2005-01-31 04:19:34 »

While Dungeon 4K isn't a very interesting *game* yet, it is a very impressive display of technology. Sure, it's easy for a senior level programmer to replicate, but only if they have a few years of experience in dealing with the nuances of 3D programming.

I know 3D is simple on paper, the implementation of a GOOD engine is still something that not all that many developers can do. Even those that have delt with 3D all their lives many know nothing of procedural textures, ray tracing, ray casting, or (in some cases) the precise 3D math that makes the various transformations possible! And even if they know these things intellectually, implementation is a whole other matter. As Cas likes to say, "things start to get a bit fiddly." :-)

So from that perspective, I think Dungeon 4K is a very impressive entry. However, I'm still hoping I'll cream it in the Gameplay score. If it had been a free movement engine similar to Wolf3D, then I think we all would have been toast. Wink

Java Game Console Project
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