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  Okay, where do I start?  (Read 2847 times)
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Offline YcatX

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Posted 2004-10-27 03:56:26 »

I know Java and I want to start coding my (OOP) object models which I want to render in 3d. This is for a game I've been developing for a number of years. Mind you scope creeps has gotten the best of me, but I think its time for me get a prototype started, instead of working on the data and logic. I'm using a XP system...

I want to know where do I start? I have most of data and business rules written out. I want to use JAVA as the language; can anyone offer any suggestions or leads?
Offline Middy

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #1 - Posted 2004-10-27 06:53:50 »

Well I started out with making my own engine. I would not recommend that since you loose focus on the game itself, while struggeling with engine design issues.

With LWJGL you have two engines to chosee from. jME and Xith3D.

Xith3D is not realy an engine, but of a Scenegraph (a very advanced one).

jME have nice stuff included, that could save you alot of trouble including sound managing and collision detection. Take a look at both.

Homepage of jME:
http://www.mojomonkeycoding.com/

feature list of jME:
http://www.mojomonkeycoding.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=31


Homepage of Xith3D
http://xith.org/tiki-index.php

If you are planning to include rigid  physics. Also consider OdeJava. Its a physics lib for Java.
http://odejava.org/tiki-index.php?page=OdejavaIntro

When do I get my makeMyGameAsILike() extension?
Offline darkprophet

Senior Member




Go Go Gadget Arms


« Reply #2 - Posted 2004-10-27 12:28:59 »

jME has some *unofficial* utilities made by yours truly to integrate OdeJava into jME very nicely.

Ive also made an *unofficial* framework for jME too. After trapping, squishing and stomping on all the bugs (can't seem to find any ATM, thats why im hesitant) i will put up some code review for the AI.

DP

Friends don't let friends make MMORPGs.

Blog | Volatile-Engine
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline YcatX

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #3 - Posted 2004-10-27 13:37:38 »

After seeing what WURMONLINE could do, I know the time is now to start on my project.

The plan is having it a 3rd person view with a webstart. Which would be the best for this? Most elements of the game can be altered. The land, the tools (supplies), the player characters, the NPCs, the Vehicles, and the bases are open to alteration and is completely on point based system where the character "buys" stat increases and other character elements.

As for making my own engine, I don't see any other choice. Since I've been wanting to make my "tabletop" work into a MMORPG for about 13 years, I know its time. Trust me, my ambishion will not let me lose focus on the game itself.

Like I said, I have the OOP models defined (for the most part), and most of them will extend the same class. Designing the GUIs may be a bit troublesome.

I'm not the BEST JAVA programmer, but I can't go around and bludgeon people to work on my project, so I guess I'll have to do it all myself. Oh, BTW: Gravity will be ignored. There is no need to include it...
Offline Funkapotamus

Junior Member




wo shuo han yu


« Reply #4 - Posted 2004-10-27 15:45:41 »

These ideas are great, but in all honesty, they are too specific for where you are right now.  I'd concentrate on getting things to appear on the screen before I started implementing a point system.

Webstart can be done with any runnable java application, so you don't need to worry about whether or not you're using jME, or Xith3D, or anything else.

As with the 3rd person view... well, again, it doesn't matter what you use just so long as you use it and do it well.  Making your own engine is a very big endeavor to handle.  For what you've described about your project, making a new engine would be reinventing the wheel.  Everything you've described can be done in the two engines.  For now, I wouldn't meddle with the overhead of making a custom engine.  Instead, I'd start implementing the basic elements of your game into an existing one and see how things go from there.  You may find that your OOP models don't work as well as you had thought- perhaps you'll chance your mind on things you wanted to add.

Go look at the feature list of the two engines.  Remember that the features aren't final.  If they don't do some of the things you want, then add them.  Both engines are open source.
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #5 - Posted 2004-10-27 16:04:15 »

Have you ever written a game before?

If not, I suggest you write something utterly simple first. In 2D. Like Pac Man. No joke! I've been down this road so many times before I realised what I was doing wrong - I got bored looooong before I got anywhere near completion.

Cas Smiley

Offline YcatX

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #6 - Posted 2004-10-27 17:02:44 »

Quote
As with the 3rd person view... well, again, it doesn't matter what you use just so long as you use it and do it well.  Making your own engine is a very big endeavor to handle.  For what you've described about your project, making a new engine would be reinventing the wheel.  Everything you've described can be done in the two engines.  For now, I wouldn't meddle with the overhead of making a custom engine.  Instead, I'd start implementing the basic elements of your game into an existing one and see how things go from there.  You may find that your OOP models don't work as well as you had thought- perhaps you'll chance your mind on things you wanted to add.

Go look at the feature list of the two engines.  Remember that the features aren't final.  If they don't do some of the things you want, then add them.  Both engines are open source.


I know about reinventing the wheel... I would rather use a rendering engine that I don't have to build from scratch. I want to start experimenting.

Have I ever written a game before? Gee, I really don't know how to answer that question. I have written some Tabletop RPGs using minitures using several different genres.

Using Dromed under the Thief2 engine, I've built about 13 missions. I've had to write schemas for the voice index and did most of the recordings as well. I've gotten some friends to generate some new models for me which I implemented into the game's object hierarchy. Not to mention those 7 AVIs... Since I've started my research, I haven't worked on it much, and I'm going to miss my Oct 31 release date for the next pack of missions (1-10). The T2 stuff is only a hobby since I can't make a dime off it. All my custom AIs and voices are mine, which I can leech from it.

I'll look into it more...
Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #7 - Posted 2004-10-27 18:22:02 »

Quote

Using Dromed under the Thief2 engine, I've built about 13 missions. I've had to write schemas for the voice index and did most of the recordings as well. I've gotten some friends to generate some new models for me which I implemented into the game's object hierarchy. Not to mention those 7 AVIs... Since I've started my research, I haven't worked on it much, and I'm going to miss my Oct 31 release date for the next pack of missions (1-10). The T2 stuff is only a hobby since I can't make a dime off it. All my custom AIs and voices are mine, which I can leech from it.

I'll look into it more...


That is an excellent background, but you should start with Pacman, Tetris, Pong or something.  Programming is a totally different animal than level creation etc...  Starting with those simple games, you get simple problems which will give you practice for harder problems further on.  If you dive right in to making an MMORPG, you will fail.  While I haven't tried an MMORPG myself, if you hang around the gaming boards long enough, you hear all the stories of failed attempts by beginners.

Big game boards other than here:
http://www.gamedev.net/
http://www.flipcode.org
http://www.gamasutra.com/

And those just scratch the surface.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #8 - Posted 2004-10-27 19:29:56 »

They say the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Well, when you get there, you'll notice that the local currency is failed MMORPGS.

Cas Smiley

Offline YcatX

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2004-10-27 19:59:12 »

Well actually many parts of it can be made into completely different apps..

The chracter generation is a Tarot card reading app

The Vehicle distance travelling was first scoped out at a 2d app (where the driving would be automatic (for the most part) and based on the speed and driving skill.

The 3rd app is a house building game.

Thanks for all your help, this chat has been most inspiring! Smiley
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #10 - Posted 2004-10-28 13:52:35 »

The following post has more information.  may be an eye opener.

http://www.java-gaming.org/cgi-bin/JGNetForums/YaBB.cgi?board=announcements;action=display;num=1098971392;start=0#0

Offline YcatX

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #11 - Posted 2004-10-28 15:46:40 »

Interesting Indeed... Smiley
Offline YcatX

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2004-10-29 05:22:22 »

Sorry about the back to back post...

That example was a "card" game, no wonder. However, I do see the rocks, and the "lighthouse"...
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #13 - Posted 2004-10-29 14:07:49 »

Suggest you write a game-concept doc if you haven't already.

Gamasutra has a decent template (ignore gamedev.net for this - it has 20 different templates, some of which are just crap).

There's a link to the gamasutra article on grexengine.com on the FAQ page (although I'm not sure for how much longer)

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline YcatX

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #14 - Posted 2004-10-29 14:42:57 »

I was working on a project brief, but I stopped because other people pointed me to define the nuts/bolts and overhead first. If there is template it would be great. The "template" I was taught with was a general IT system implementation brief for the client.

I'm am glad to see so many helpful people! Once again, thank you for the kindness.

One thing I want to express after watching that PBS special on Video Games is I don't want to make a FPS, or a gore-fest. There is already enough mindless killing in the world...
Offline YcatX

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #15 - Posted 2004-10-29 20:47:43 »

Wow... jME is nice!

BTW: I wrote up that game concept.. Now all I need is a few more "hands"...
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