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  Food for thought  (Read 5242 times)
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Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #30 - Posted 2004-10-21 14:49:09 »

Quote
Also, is a terrorist someone who hates the US or is it someone who hates anyone not like them?

As long as a hating person isn't terrorizing, he is not a terrorist.

Offline gregof

Junior Member




in code we trust


« Reply #31 - Posted 2004-10-21 15:32:09 »

One man's terrorist is an other man's freedom fighter...

// Gregof
Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #32 - Posted 2004-10-21 18:32:54 »

like the American air raids launched in Iraq at the beginning of the war?  Their purpose, as explained by those soldiers in the field to news cameras, was to keep the enemy from relaxing.  They timed the attacks so that they were constant for all hours that they weren't mobilizing troops into the cities.  Can you imagine the terror if the civilians to hear bombs dropping all night long?  Every time you'd wonder if the next would hit your home...  That sounds like terrorism to me.  You may say all's fair in love and war... but Bush preaches that he's fighting for the freedom of Iraq AND the elimination of terrorism, he's being hypocritical twice at the same time.  Two wrongs don't make a right you know Tongue

EDIT: I think the American soldiers estimate number of terrorists by how many people they encounter shooting at them.  Problems with poorly equipped soldiers (also inexcusable on Bush's part) have become so evident lately because they've been more on the defensive than ever before.  That's because there are more people shooting back now than before.

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Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #33 - Posted 2004-10-22 10:49:31 »

I think the root of the problems is lack of education and the fact that people are taught to hate by religious leaders.  The islamic extremists believe they are the good guys because their religious leaders have convinced them of that.  In their mind they are the ones that are trying to wipe out evil.  Funny, that's the same thing that the Americans say they are doing.    The terrorists don't think they killed thousands of innocent civilians on Sept 11th, they defeated non-islamic people, and non-islamic people are a threat to islam and any such threat is evil by definition as far as they are concerned.
If people would be educated to think for themselves instead of blindly following some made-up nonsense religion (all people, including the Americans) many of these problems would be reduced significantly.  You will always have conflict over differing views, but if you could reduce to fighting over truths instead of dogma the world would be a better place.

Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #34 - Posted 2004-10-22 11:03:47 »

Agreed, tolerance and acceptance is what we need!  That's the essence of Hinduism and even Buddhism too.  Heck, that's also probably the most important part of Christianity, but we've seen how Bush has even twisted scripture into reasoning to fight in Iraq neglecting important lessons like "love thy neighbor", yes, other countries are neighbors too, or, "turn the other cheek".  He skipped that one and instead used the "eye for an eye" philosophy... except he got the wrong eye, as Iraq was not in need of retaliation... so yeah... I guess Christianity isn't a good example Smiley  Cause then you have to think about the Crusades... yeah...

Hinduism and Buddhism seem to be the only religions that have maintained peaceful relations with other religions.  It's a wonderful thing, and other cultures should learn from that example.

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Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #35 - Posted 2004-10-22 11:59:49 »

As far as I know, no religion preaches terrorism. Not christianity, not the islam, not hinduism etc. They all preach tolorance and love for one another.
I don't think one religion in itself is more peaceful than the other. It's always people doing the terror, although often they use religion as an excuse. I believe wars and terrorism would still happen if religion wouldn't exist at all. They'd just find something else to create fear.

Offline Jens

Senior Member




Java for games!


« Reply #36 - Posted 2004-10-22 15:21:11 »

Quote
By the way, did you know Bush is persuing new WMD's of his own and is currently funding the development of more advanced nuclear weapons?


I don't think the US goverment judges their own country the way they judge others.


Xith3D Getting Started Guide (PDF,HTML,Source)
Offline gregof

Junior Member




in code we trust


« Reply #37 - Posted 2004-10-22 15:56:28 »

Malohkan wrote:
Quote

like the American air raids launched in Iraq at the beginning of the war?


I don't now  if i missed some fine point in the english language (being a non-native speaker) but what I meant By my "One man's terrorist is an other man's freedom fighter... "-post was that it often is about point of view, the people who blow themselves up in cafe's or fly airplanes into buildings are not considering themselves as terrorists. And in this day it is _Very_ popular for every regim, that has some small (or not so small) part of their country being populated by people that do not consider themselves as part of that regim/country,  to call these people "terrorists"  and use that term to justify all means they want to use to get rid of these "terrorists".  My point being that everyone should be very careful everytime people scream terrorist,  because you dont know what motives they might have for doing so.

// Gregof
Offline darkprophet

Senior Member




Go Go Gadget Arms


« Reply #38 - Posted 2004-10-22 21:39:59 »

I am an Iraqi myself. And the cocky, trigger happy americans that are sitting there in tanks chewing gum with .42 calliber guns in their hands just frightens the living day light out of me.

You are driving down the street and you signal left to go right, and right to go left just incase the americans decide "hey you know what? il add a checkpoint there, but lets make it invisible! and if they cross it, we'l shoot!".

Quote

If people would be educated to think for themselves instead of blindly following some made-up nonsense religion.


Excuse me? Made-up nonsense religion? Shows what you know. You obviously haven't read about islam or actually bothered to think about muslims point of view. There are something like 2.6 BILLION muslims in the world, out of 6.5 BILLION, and all of those 2.6 are following a "made-up nonsense religeon"!

Go read history, go find out why a hatred has grew deep inside our hearts for the western countries. Then, and only then, are you qualified to make statements like this.

Quote

I think the root of the problems is lack of education and the fact that people are taught to hate by religious leaders.


Right, thats because you bombed all the schools! And for some people, religion is more important than science, computers, and art combined!

Sorry, swpalmer, but you have just lost all my respect for you.

Friends don't let friends make MMORPGs.

Blog | Volatile-Engine
Offline Middy

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #39 - Posted 2004-10-23 07:53:35 »


Well numbers dont nessesarily make right. But religion itself is not a problem, it's how its used/abused to extend politics. Thats what its about, politics.

Its a politic of US to have a string force in the middleeast. Its a politic of terrorists/freedomfighters to be free of western influence.

The curse of the middleeast is the oil. So much wealth and so few people actually benefitting from iit. These kind of conflicts and the influence of the west will continue for as long as the west i dependant on the oil.

What had oil brought to the Iraqies?, nothing but grief and death for 20+ years.

So the discussion wether USA should or should not have done this and that, is futile. Cause there is NO way a superpower will give away its power and the way USA and europe is dependant on oil. They will have to control it.

It's about politics and power.

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Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #40 - Posted 2004-10-23 21:11:36 »

Quote
Right, thats because you bombed all the schools! And for some people, religion is more important than science, computers, and art combined!

Sorry, swpalmer, but you have just lost all my respect for you.


Swpalmer bombed your schools?  Wow!

Your numbers are off, 45% of the earths population does not follow islam.
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 366
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #41 - Posted 2004-10-23 21:27:06 »

Indeed. The only "religion" I genuinely respect is Buddhism but I'm still not a Buddhist. What was that bit of Usenet law about ****s and thread termination? I think we ought to lock this thread because it's just getting people riled at each other when ordinarily I don't think a single one of us in here wishes any harm to any other human beings of any creed and if we met face to face in <insert war-torn situation here> we'd probably have very different ways to sort things out.

Bottom line is, killing people is the only and ultimate wrong being committed, by all sides. F*ck 'em all if they don't want to live in peace.

Cas Smiley

Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #42 - Posted 2004-10-23 21:27:14 »

Quote
Excuse me? Made-up nonsense religion? Shows what you know. You obviously haven't read about islam or actually bothered to think about muslims point of view. There are something like 2.6 BILLION muslims in the world, out of 6.5 BILLION, and all of those 2.6 are following a "made-up nonsense religeon"!

What is your point?  Number of followers is not relevant.  For one thing I was not referring to islam specifically, so the numbers are likely much larger.  Most religions are similarly deceptive.   Perhaps you should do some research on religion in general yourself.

Quote
Go read history, go find out why a hatred has grew deep inside our hearts for the western countries. Then, and only then, are you qualified to make statements like this.

The hatred was promoted with lies from religious leaders.

Quote
Right, thats because you bombed all the schools!

I did no such thing.  Nor did I support anyone who did in any way.  In any case the recent bombing was too recent to be the cause of the lack of education.  More likely is that the religious leaders are against education because then people would know enough to question them (as deadly as that is in Iraq).

Quote
And for some people, religion is more important than science, computers, and art combined!

Yes, that's the problem. People base their lives on mythology even when presented with much more likely scientific truths.  People choose to believe what they are told by religious leaders with hidden agendas.  If the religious leaders tell the people to kill americans (like they have), they blindly follow and commit the requested murders (as they have).  If the religious leaders believed their religion to be true they would not be afraid of science. But science threatens their power over the people by showing them how they have been lied to, how the religious leaders don't really know truths, they say what they like to keep their power or cling to their faith despite the facts that show their beliefs to be false.

Imagine if the people would learn to think for themselves.  If they were educated to think critically.

Quote
Sorry, swpalmer, but you have just lost all my respect for you.

Because my opinion is that corrupt religious leaders promoting terrorism is a bad thing?

Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #43 - Posted 2004-10-24 20:53:23 »

what you guys are arguing about, neither of you can prove.  You're both preaching ambiguities and you won't convince either of you to change your minds.  Unless you can quote religious leaders or cite credible surveys for numbers, you both might as well be making facts up on the spot for as much as anyone else can tell.  Whether or not I agree with either of your arguments, they don't have any weight, but I don't think it's either of your faults.

I think the resulting thought should be more of, "What we all need now is peace and understanding, regardless of what wrongs have been felt or preached in the past."  Pointing fingers or assigning blame to masses will not make anyone feel more inclined to spread peace.  In fact all it can do is stir up anger... as it has done in this case.

Can't we get back to the easy topic of poking at all of the mistakes Bush has made?  That one's so obvious, and pretty important to help bring the undecided American voters out of the dark Smiley  Boo hiss, Bush bad, Bush bad.

Abstinence in 2004, No Bush or Dick  Wink

John Kerry may be a flip-flopping waffler, but he's not Bush, and that's good enough reason to vote for Kerry  Grin

Another note:  My girlfriend's dad lost her job from IBM... so he moved to India, and got his old job back.  My girlfriend saw him 1 week out of every 3 months.  No lie, I'm serious.  That's the kind of situation Bush has led us into.  Yuck!

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