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Offline MikeS

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Posted 2004-10-11 18:21:08 »

Hello Java Gaming community,

Well, first off let me say I'm glad I've found a place for Java gamers to unite! Anyway, I'm now going to post all of my questions and ambitions about Java.

1.) Ok, my number 1 goal with java is to eventually build a multiplatform 3D engine. I've already encountered one problem with doing this in other small programs. How do you make clickable icons? I honostly don't want to tell my users to go into the command line and get dirty with all that stuff.

2.) Okay, so I want to eventually make that 3D game engine. How do I go about making it modular? I mean, with C++, C#, etc. DLL's are the problem solvers. With Java you just have class files. So if I want users to be able to add to the engine, but not edit the other class files what do I do?

3.) Any ideas on file protection while we're at it. Smiley

4.) Jogl, J3D, and all the other API's. How were they programmed? How are they linked with Java? Okay, I'm guessing I can add a library or something from NetBeans, is this correct? As for the API's, are these made in languages such as C++, or do they actually get made in Java and are somehow linked?

5.) Anyone have any good recommendations for IDE's? I'm using netbeans, but it's a little overwhelming for a beginner, I just want to learn to code first. Wink How about Eclipse, I just need something with the barebones, and maybe a decent debugger. (Yes, I've already tried notepad Wink )

6.) Show me your cool Java tech demos, games, and applications! (I love fancy terrains, shaders, and organized GUI's Wink *hint* *hint*)

Can't think of much else to say, will probebly come back with even more questions!  Cheesy

Since I've asked a lot of questions, just anwser the ones you feel like anwsering, and maybe someone or myself will find the anwser to the next.

Thanks for all the help.

-Mike-

Cool

Oh wait, something about...DX..vs...no never mind, I lost the thought.
(I'm kidding, don't even go into that Wink )
Offline MikeS

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #1 - Posted 2004-10-11 18:44:38 »

Ack, I'm just going to build my own IDE in a BASIC language I know. Cross of #5 from the list.

1/6 anwsered.

Wink
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 376
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #2 - Posted 2004-10-11 19:24:44 »

1) Icons to do what? Maybe you're worried about deployment; Webstart takes care of that now.

2) By designing it with a specific goal in mind instead of thinking up all sorts of fancy features as you go along, and then trying to make it ultra-fancypants clever and too modular with plugin architectures etc etc etc.

3) No. You might obfuscate the code but honestly there's little point.

4) JOGL and J3D use JNI to talk to native DLLs, written in C and C++. The native DLLs are bindings to other native libraries.

5) Eclipse

6)
http://www.puppygames.net/downloads/alienflux-full.jnlp
http://www.puppygames.net/downloads/hallucinogenesis/hallucinogenesis.jnlp
http://www.puppygames.net/downloads/shaven_puppy_demo.zip (nvidia only, VERY old)

Cas Smiley

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline MikeS

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #3 - Posted 2004-10-11 20:01:03 »

Quote


Hmm, webstart must not like my computer. It hasn't worked for any programs yet. Well, it started running AlienFlux but just quit out after I started level one. Sad


Quote
1) Icons to do what? Maybe you're worried about deployment; Webstart takes care of that now.

Yup, that's exactly why. Unfortuantly webstart hasn't been working for me at all (as read above). I also think having an executable is a little more professional, but that's just me.

Quote
2) By designing it with a specific goal in mind instead of thinking up all sorts of fancy features as you go along, and then trying to make it ultra-fancypants clever and too modular with plugin architectures etc etc etc.


Agreed. I'll be happy if I can load a model, control it, build a terrain, and have some basic collision detection( if nothing use a math/variable based collision).

Quote
3) No. You might obfuscate the code but honestly there's little point.

For now you're right. Unless I develop something commercially I have plenty of time to figure that out. Wink

Quote
4) JOGL and J3D use JNI to talk to native DLLs, written in C and C++. The native DLLs are bindings to other native libraries.

Googling JNI as we speak. Smiley

Quote
5) Eclipse

I've already completed a simple notepad editor. I think I'll still look into Eclipse though. Wink


Online Catharsis

Senior Member


Medals: 5
Exp: 18 years


TyphonRT rocks!


« Reply #4 - Posted 2004-10-11 20:01:34 »

You might check out the Auriga3D project (www.auriga3d.org). I am releasing it in/around December. It will be a decent example of a modern design (component oriented) for a Java based 3D rendering engine. Once the 1st beta is released it will be available open source and I'd be glad to see more people join in development or use it for projects of their own.

Some answers though...
1. NativeJ (http://www.dobysoft.com/products/nativej/)
is nice to easily create launchers for desktop Win32 apps; including attaching icons to the exe.

2. I am working on this by creating a framework called Typhon (typhon.egrsoftware.com) that is based on the PicoContainer family and Platonos plugin engine.  For instance you will be able to do cool things like swapping parts of the rendering engine while in game without reloading textures or pausing game play.

4. JOGL / LWJGL; focus on these. They are built around the JNI and OpenGL C API. You include the .dlls for these libraries; check out -Djava.library.path and include the .jar files in your classpath for the project.

5. Eclipse is probably your best bet.. I like IntelliJ Idea, but it is commercial.

Good luck.. you are at the right place for java gaming.. Smiley

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #5 - Posted 2004-10-11 20:12:41 »

Quote
Hello Java Gaming community,
2.) Okay, so I want to eventually make that 3D game engine. How do I go about making it modular?


You need to brush up on java the language using non-gaming tutorials. There is a lot to learn about java's compiling and linking processes.

The short summary is this:

- In java, EVERYTHING is a DLL. You cannot prevent that (unless you compile to native code or use other exotic tricks)
- The java "interface" file serves two purposes: creates new ADT's and also (this is the bit you want) decouples class files that would invoke each other.

Once you know how it works, you'll find that you code all variable and method references to interfaces, not to classes, and that you package everything in JAR's, and you'll have a fully dynamically linked system. Joy!

Quote

3.) Any ideas on file protection while we're at it. Smiley


No such thing. Any game that is worth being pirated has it's copy protection blown open in a matter of weeks. If it's something very popular, the protection is blown BEFORE it arrives in stores. There don't seem to be any exceptions...

Quote

5.) Anyone have any good recommendations for IDE's? I'm using netbeans, but it's a little overwhelming for a beginner, I just want to learn to code first. Wink How about Eclipse, I just need something with the barebones, and maybe a decent debugger. (Yes, I've already tried notepad Wink )


Not thought about this until now, but Eclipse is perfect for a beginner because it refuses to let you do all sorts of important and necessary things that would confuse beginners Smiley.

But...first you need to learn what an Eclipse "workspace" is (you have one of these for every major project you work on, e.g. one for "my 3D engine and all it's games", a different one for  "the project we do at work" etc), and what an Eclipse "project" is (you have one of these for every major module within your project, e.g. one for "base 3D engine", another one for "the FPS game that runs on the engine", another one for "my IK-based skeletal animation system that plugs in to the engine" etc).

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #6 - Posted 2004-10-11 20:15:50 »

Quote

Hmm, webstart must not like my computer. It hasn't worked for any programs yet. Well, it started running AlienFlux but just quit out after I started level one. Sad


You need to get it working, I'm afraid. e.g. all the games on the Java Games Factory (see link below) are webstart only (or...will be, as soon as we do the next round of housekeeping sometime in the next few weeks)

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline MikeS

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2004-10-11 20:20:29 »

@Catharsis

Catharsis that Auriga3D engine is jaw-droping.  Grin

Quote

Looks great and not too unreasonable of a price tag. It says it only generates Windows executables though, so what about linux executables?

Quote
2. I am working on this by creating a framework called Typhon (typhon.egrsoftware.com)...

Excellent, looks fantastic. Smiley

Quote
4. JOGL / LWJGL; focus on these. They are built around the JNI and OpenGL C API...

Yeah, I think it'll be best if I just use those two API's for now. Wink

Quote
5. Eclipse is probably your best bet.. I like IntelliJ Idea, but it is commercial.

More and more about Eclipse, I'm downloading now.  Cheesy

Thanks for your help.

Cool
Offline MikeS

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #8 - Posted 2004-10-11 20:33:35 »

@blahblahblahh

Quote
You need to get it working, I'm afraid. e.g. all the games on the Java Games Factory (see link below) are webstart only (...)


Yeah, I'll keep messing around with it.

By the way, Java Games Factory is awesome. Smiley

Quote
Any game that is worth being pirated has it's copy protection blown open in a matter of weeks.

I still think it's worthwhile to have some sort of protection. Even if it's as simple as a password and editng a registry file, it'll stop casual users from unlocking useful information.

Quote
You need to brush up on java the language using non-gaming tutorials.

Agreed. Wink I made a rule to myself that I need to finish "Beginning Programming with Java" before I touch 3D. I can't help to be curious about 3D engines after coming from a heavy backround in DarkBasic(a BASIC 3D game engine) though.  Cheesy

Thanks for all your help.

Cool
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 376
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #9 - Posted 2004-10-11 20:56:59 »

Mike - AF crashes out in that way usually on ATI cards. Am I right?

Cas Smiley

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline MikeS

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #10 - Posted 2004-10-11 21:07:11 »

You are correct. Smiley

I changed the settings to use low graphics and it at least stopped flickering.

Machine Specs:
1.8 ghz | 1536 ddr ram | radeon 9800 | Built in Sound Blaster(I need a better sound card. Wink )

Cool
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #11 - Posted 2004-10-11 22:20:14 »

Quote
I'm using netbeans, but it's a little overwhelming for a beginner, I just want to learn to code first.


Notepad and the command line are the way to go when starting out, imho.
Offline Alex84

Junior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2004-10-12 13:43:53 »

Hi everybody!
Mike introduced himself here, so I wanted to that, too. My goal is not to build YAFS3DE (yet-another-fancy-smancy-3-D-engine Smiley) but to start with some simple 2D racing, platform and shoot'm up games. Then, as my big goal, I want to do a Fallout-clone.
@Mike: you tried Darkbasic? What do you think about it? Why didn't you stay with it and now use Java?
Maybe we two could start out and make our own game together, some kind of "the two Newbies' first game" Smiley

What do you think?

Alex
Offline MikeS

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2004-10-12 19:07:49 »

@nonnus29

Agreed. Smiley

------------------------
@Alex84

Hi Alex,

You wouldn't happen to be the same Alex from here would you? Wink
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=275661

Quote
you tried Darkbasic? What do you think about it? Why didn't you stay with it and now use Java?


Yeah, I've been using Dark Basic for over a year and a half now. It's definitliy a good first language to learn as it was mine. It's very powerful and can probebly do anything that you could do in Java with OpenGL and DX gamewise.

Quote
Maybe we two could start out and make our own game together, some kind of "the two Newbies' first game"


Sounds like a plan, but first I want to focus on learning the language. Once we each complete a game of our own, then maybe we can team up on a larger project. Lets keep in touch for the future.

msn/e-mail: yellow1dbp@hotmail.com

Cool
Offline Alex84

Junior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #14 - Posted 2004-10-13 05:20:06 »

Hi Mike!
Well, actually that is me. You may find other forums, where I post, too.
These are:
http://www.peginc.com/forum/
http://www.viersaiten.org
http://www.bassic.ch
http://p219.ezboard.com/bthedudepit
Ok, in the last forum my nick is Alexander84 instead of Alex84. Someday we might really program a game together! I've added your email adress to my adress book.
Cya!
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #15 - Posted 2004-10-13 06:28:11 »

>How do you make clickable icons?

Make a double clickable jar (one with main class specified)... and that's it... Well, it works only as long as the jar file association hasn't been stolen by one of those shitty archivers.

Having said that... you won't have that problem with webstart.

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
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