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  Very low performance with opengl...  (Read 4324 times)
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Offline Linuxhippy

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Java games rock!


« Posted 2004-09-22 07:39:37 »

Hi there!

I was very happy when SUN announced somewhere in beta-1 days that there will be an OpenGL-based java-2d pipeline.

However when I tested beta1 I was a bit suprised cause it was VERY slow and unstable. Now we have RC and OpenGL i still soo buggy and slow on my machine.

I am using linux with a GeforceGo-480 (an higher clocked 460) and nvidia-drivers-6106, I know that opengl-accerlation works fine, I can play shooters with high performance but only java's-opengl-pipeline is slow :-(

Is this a known problem, does maybe anybody know why this is so (someone working in the java2d-team) and when does sun plan to fix this?

Thanks a lot, lg Clemens
Offline pepe

Junior Member




Nothing unreal exists


« Reply #1 - Posted 2004-09-22 07:42:09 »

what message do you get when you enable the GL pipeline?
[edit] oh, and what do you test it with? application, game?

Home page: http://frederic.barachant.com
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Offline krausest

Junior Member


Exp: 15 years


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2004-09-22 08:30:49 »

This could be http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=5073409

I'm getting this error, too (slow graphics, crashes and messed up graphics with the opengl pipeline) and I'm afraid 1.5 will have no useable GL acceleration for the only useable GL driver under linux. Rumors are that 1.5 goes final on Sep 30 and there's nothing in the bug database making me more optimistic regarding this bug.

(Isn't it sad somehow? Java could really do it right with High Performance 2D Graphics - something QT 4 and Cairo /Glitz promise for somewhen in the future. We could have it now with Java - if only it worked...)
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Offline dranonymous

Junior Member




Hoping to become a Java Titan someday!


« Reply #3 - Posted 2004-09-22 11:16:06 »

Something I found when using the pipeline is that your textures need to be sized in powers of 2.  If you don't, you will take a large performance hit.

HTH,
Dr. A>
Offline campbell

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #4 - Posted 2004-09-22 14:27:34 »

Quote
Hi there!

I was very happy when SUN announced somewhere in beta-1 days that there will be an OpenGL-based java-2d pipeline.

However when I tested beta1 I was a bit suprised cause it was VERY slow and unstable. Now we have RC and OpenGL i still soo buggy and slow on my machine.

I am using linux with a GeforceGo-480 (an higher clocked 460) and nvidia-drivers-6106, I know that opengl-accerlation works fine, I can play shooters with high performance but only java's-opengl-pipeline is slow :-(

Is this a known problem, does maybe anybody know why this is so (someone working in the java2d-team) and when does sun plan to fix this?

Thanks a lot, lg Clemens


As krausest noted, this sounds like 5073409.  Please note that it appears that the 6106 drivers are the source of the regression (there were no changes to our OGL pipeline in that timeframe).  We are trying to boil down the problem into a testcase for Nvidia to investigate, as the problem should be fixed in their drivers (there's no apparent workaround for us).  It would probably help our cause if members of this community could get on Nvidia's radar, by telling them that their 6106 drivers caused this regression, and you'd like to see it fixed.  We can only do so much on our side.  We're trying to get driver teams from Nvidia and ATI testing our pipeline regularly so that they can avoid big regressions like this in the future.

The slowness you are seeing could be due to slow system memory copies in Nvidia's drivers, which we are hoping to workaround in an upcoming release (see 5020009).

If you have a specific testcase that demonstrates the performance problems, please send it to me so that we can get to the source of your problem.

Thanks,
Chris
Offline campbell

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2004-09-22 14:32:41 »

Quote
Something I found when using the pipeline is that your textures need to be sized in powers of 2.  If you don't, you will take a large performance hit.

HTH,
Dr. A>


Could you tell me more about this (which hardware you've seen this on, under what conditions, and perhaps a testcase)?  We cache non-pow2 images in pow2 textures anyway, so there should be no performance degradation if you're using non-pow2 managed images.  (The only downside is that we end up wasting some texture memory, since there may be some unused space in that pow2 texture.  This is effectively solved on newer boards that support the GL_ARB_non-power-of-two extension.)

Thanks,
Chris
Offline Linuxhippy

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Java games rock!


« Reply #6 - Posted 2004-09-23 03:39:06 »

Wow, never thought that this thread would create such high waves...

Hmm, I also had unstable behaviour and really terrible performance (compared to X11-Pipeline) with older drivers, I dont think its only a problem of 6106. Only the regular crash at jvm-exit is a problem that occurs with 6106 much more often.
The other Graphiccard I have (Matrox-G400, Opengl-1.3) completly does not work (at least with beta2), no messages are shown at all.

I really love the idea of OpenGL-enabled java2d, since it would let you choose wether you want network-compliance (you can laugth but I daily use java-apps via remote x-forearding...), however its completly useless on my machine for now....

However I have to say that I really want to thank you for all your work (at least ati-users will have better 2d-apps for now *g* ), good luck with bug-fixing.

lg Clemens

PS: Shouldnt we start a thread where people could subscribe that they use nvidia-drivers and would love to see better performance, we could send this list to nvidia which would increase the pressure...

PS2: Is java2d-opengl/nvidia only known to be slow on linux or also on linux?

PS3: Its e.g. very slow when I start the java2d-demo with opengl-enabled. The initial animation (java2d..provides...blablabla...) runs very smooth on X11 but with opengl I only have ~0.5fps :-(
Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #7 - Posted 2004-09-23 12:48:00 »

my Intel Graphics card with Open GL 1.3 support shows no changes when OpenGL is enabled.  It prints out a message saying it can't use it.

Admin and Game Developer at
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Offline pepe

Junior Member




Nothing unreal exists


« Reply #8 - Posted 2004-09-23 13:01:35 »

Quote
my Intel Graphics card with Open GL 1.3 support shows no changes when OpenGL is enabled.  It prints out a message saying it can't use it.

as Bill Gates said (in his fabulous BSOD sequence)
"that must be the reason why we don't ship yet..."
Wink

Home page: http://frederic.barachant.com
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Offline Linuxhippy

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Java games rock!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2004-09-23 13:10:07 »

but they plan to ship it on 30. spetember, this is what makes me feel a big unhappy... maybe 1.5.1 will bring what I hoped to become reality with 1.5....
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Offline DrBizzar0

Junior Member




Raj raj!


« Reply #10 - Posted 2004-09-23 16:16:39 »

I wouldn't be suprised if the open-gl support sucks when 1.5.0 is released, since it feels like most new features have sucked in the initial release and then got better in the x.x.x releases.  Roll Eyes
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #11 - Posted 2004-09-23 17:00:51 »

Quote
but they plan to ship it on 30. spetember, this is what makes me feel a big unhappy... maybe 1.5.1 will bring what I hoped to become reality with 1.5....


Well, 1.4.x networking was entirely unusable until 1.4.1, and mostly unusable until 1.4.2. And there are other parts of 1.4.x that didn't work *at all* until 1.4.2_03 or later (e.g. the JVM would crash immediately if yhou tried to run it chroot'd).

So...I wouldn't hold out hopes for 1.5.0 being a replacement for 1.4.2_05 (especially with an _06 coming...)

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline Linuxhippy

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Java games rock!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2004-09-29 03:42:56 »

Hmm, right, Networking under 1.4.0 was somewhat buggy, even the old-io classes had some strange behaviour, however now its quite stable.

What I need from java is a faster startup, I am applet/webstart-developer an my customers are always angry that java needs 15-30sec to come up and again 20secs to load the classes.

hmm...

However one sice does not fit all and I really love java for beeing so universal. Hmm..., well java is cool, i think...at least cause theres a non-working gl-pipeline *g*

lg Clemens
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 390
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #13 - Posted 2004-09-29 08:24:25 »

The new 1.5 starts up considerably faster than 1.4.x. Shame the server VM doesn't.

Cas Smiley

Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #14 - Posted 2004-09-29 09:47:20 »

Quote
Shame the server VM doesn't.


"What server VM?", I hear your customers ask Tongue

Offline princec

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Medals: 390
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #15 - Posted 2004-09-29 11:30:19 »

I could give my customers the server VM without them ever knowing, except it adds another meg to the downloads, halves startup time, and only gives me a 20% framerate boost... which is irrelevant on machines over 700Mhz or so as I'm fillrate limited by then...

Cas Smiley

Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #16 - Posted 2004-09-29 11:35:32 »

oooo and call it the Turbo Charged version!  I'd click it Wink

Admin and Game Developer at
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Offline Linuxhippy

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Java games rock!


« Reply #17 - Posted 2004-10-01 15:32:07 »

Hmm, only "20% framerate boost" to name it the same way you did means that the jvm got for your operations 20% faster, I think this is really very much.

The server-vm is named server-vm because it runs on servers which are typically shut down every month or so, otherwise it maybe would have been called game-vm, which starts fast, has a low footprint and is fast++....

Be happy with the new client-vm, its realy good, well, except some bugs...
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 390
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #18 - Posted 2004-10-02 13:09:02 »

It's merely "acceptable" performance-wise. Only the server VM can really compete with C++ but fortunately I don't target the very upper reaches of processor power Smiley

Cas Smiley

Offline Linuxhippy

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Java games rock!


« Reply #19 - Posted 2004-10-05 11:26:35 »

I contacted the nvidia-bug support, namely the follwing person: aritger AT nvidia D0T com

They told me that sun has never contacted they because of driver problems or something like this. They even did not know that there is a huge performance problem.

If a Java2D-engineer working at SUN reads this, it would be cool if both could contact each other, I think SUN has a very bid administration-overhead many things take much time.

lg Clemens
Offline Bombadil

Senior Member





« Reply #20 - Posted 2004-10-05 13:01:42 »

Quote
The new 1.5 starts up considerably faster than 1.4.x. Shame the server VM doesn't.

Well for servers the startup time doesn't matter, and since it's being called the server VM...
Of course, like you, I'd welcome if SUN shipped the server VM per default with the J2SE. :-)
The ideal VM would be as fast as the server VM and start as fast as the client VM, hehe...

Class Data Sharing
Quote
In J2SE 5.0, class data sharing is supported only with the Java HotSpot Client VM, and only with the serial garbage collector.
Offline princec

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Medals: 390
Projects: 3
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Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #21 - Posted 2004-10-05 18:58:22 »

Can't understand why class sharing isn't available for server.

Have you noticed that tuning option for two phase compilation...? I wonder what that's all about.

Cas Smiley

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #22 - Posted 2004-10-08 17:00:55 »

Quote

Well for servers the startup time doesn't matter


You wouldn't say that if you had to (re)start big servers many times a day because you were developing startup code (whinge, whinge ;)).

Quote


What? Argh! There I was, naively expecting that I'd be able to run lots of copies of server and client VMs simultaneously and see some serious RAM usage improvements (the idle RAM usage is small for the stuff I run in server JVM, and the clients often use very little RAM beyond the standard lib classes).

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline krausest

Junior Member


Exp: 15 years


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


« Reply #23 - Posted 2004-11-06 10:54:53 »

There's a new 66.29 driver from nvidia works now works nicely with the openGL pipeline of Java2D. I've got a small sample benchmark that takes 9,7 secs (client HS) and 7,3 secs (server HD) without the openGL pipeline and 3,5 secs (client HS) and 4,4 secs (server HS) with the openGL pipeline enabled. Of course a factor of 10 would even look better, but 1/3 isn't bad either... Especially if I compare it to the Cairo c++ version of the benchmarks which takes 20 seconds for Xlib and 10 seconds with the glitz openGL backend.

Does anyone have a clue why the openGL pipeline runs faster with the client hotspot than with server? I have the same behaviour on windows too....
Offline krausest

Junior Member


Exp: 15 years


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


« Reply #24 - Posted 2004-11-06 17:55:38 »

I just ran the benchmark on a JRE 1.4.2_05 (on SuSE 9,2) and saw a strange result, since it took 4.2 seconds for the client VM and  for the server VM. Strange that performance has degraded from 1.4 to 1.5...
Offline campbell

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #25 - Posted 2004-11-08 22:29:00 »

Quote
There's a new 66.29 driver from nvidia works now works nicely with the openGL pipeline of Java2D. I've got a small sample benchmark that takes 9,7 secs (client HS) and 7,3 secs (server HD) without the openGL pipeline and 3,5 secs (client HS) and 4,4 secs (server HS) with the openGL pipeline enabled. Of course a factor of 10 would even look better, but 1/3 isn't bad either... Especially if I compare it to the Cairo c++ version of the benchmarks which takes 20 seconds for Xlib and 10 seconds with the glitz openGL backend.


Hi there,

I was also happy to read that Nvidia had addressed some of the performance and robustness issues that were affecting the OGL-based Java 2D pipeline in their 6629 drivers.  I'll test out the new drivers this week, but in the meantime, could you verify that 5073409 (crash on exit, etc) is fixed after installing the 6629 drivers?  Once I'm convinced that the problems are resolved I'll be able to close out 5073409.

Also, do you know how much faster the 6629 drivers are for your microbenchmark compared to the 5336 drivers?  I suspect that they improved the glDrawPixels() issue (described in 5020009), but it would be great to hear your take on it.  (For example, is the intro screen in Java2Demo faster now with the 6629 drivers?)

I've sent mail to our contacts at Nvidia to get some more info about what they've fixed specifically.  As I mentioned, I'll run some benchmarks later this week with the new drivers to see what's improved.

Thanks,
Chris
Java 2D Team
Offline Linuxhippy

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Java games rock!


« Reply #26 - Posted 2004-11-20 15:59:45 »

Has anybody till now tried the new drivers?

My Laptop is at repair so I can't check it out :-(

I also would be interrested about normal swing benchmarks, that do not crazy stuff  like clipping and transformations, simply fills lines and text.

Any results till now?

Thanks in advance, lg Clemens
Offline selendic

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #27 - Posted 2004-11-20 22:06:58 »

I tried them (two different Linux boxes), havent done any benchmarks, though. Things look rather good. Works much faster and stable, although I still can crash (better to say, hang) SwingSet2 and Java2D. And can see  some rendering artifacts here and there. But speed is really ok, and there is no crash on exit bug anymore.
Offline Abuse

JGO Knight


Medals: 12


falling into the abyss of reality


« Reply #28 - Posted 2004-11-22 17:05:29 »

66.93 has managed to introduce atleast 1 very bizarre bug =/

I left C&C: Generals idle for about 4 minutes, came back and found my mouse cursor had stopped responding to mouse motion.
While annoying, this was no great suprise... until I realised the mouse hotspot was still active :S

I could still move the mouse about, and click stuff, its just the mouse cursor icon was not being rendered where the mouse clicks were being registered ^_^

I quit Generals, expecting the issue to rectify itself, only to find Windows behaving in the exact same way Shocked

It took a restart to rectify the problem, and havn't seen it happen since.

Very peculiar :S

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Offline Abuse

JGO Knight


Medals: 12


falling into the abyss of reality


« Reply #29 - Posted 2004-11-22 22:52:08 »

meh, it did it again =/

Mouse cursor stops moving, but the mouse hotspot is just fine O_o

Seems the latest nvidia drivers are buggy (atleast on the GeForce 6800GT)

Strange, as I would have thought the focus of any new drivers would have been to improve performance on the latest cards (which the 6800 certainly is :S)

Maybe its just the game, as this is the 2nd time Nvidia drivers have broken C&C: Generals =/

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