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  LWJGL 0.92 released!  (Read 2043 times)
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Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Posted 2004-09-06 20:06:39 »

Please follow this thread:
http://puppygames.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=701

Offline Chman

Junior Member




Nothing more that... Java games are cool !


« Reply #1 - Posted 2004-09-07 04:23:12 »

Good work Smiley
I'll have to update all my demos/tutorials tonight...

Chman
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 361
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #2 - Posted 2004-09-07 07:25:58 »

(Small problem - Matzon compiled on JDK1.5 and forgot the -target 1.4 switch, so the classes only work with 1.5. He assures me he'll fix it tonight)

Cas Smiley

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Inquisitor
Guest
« Reply #3 - Posted 2004-09-07 10:05:15 »

Very nice. It's a small annoyance though that the window isn't centered to screen in windowed mode (in some older version it was centered if i'm not mistaken).
Offline Chman

Junior Member




Nothing more that... Java games are cool !


« Reply #4 - Posted 2004-09-07 17:08:48 »

Inquisitor is true...
Could the window (in windowed mode) be centered on the screen ?

Chman
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 361
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #5 - Posted 2004-09-07 19:25:01 »

Hmph. What happed to my setLocation() method on the damned thing??? Well, I'll put that back in at some point. But please get this: windowed mode is for debugging and smartasses. LWJGL is all about the death of the PC and the return to games machines.

Cas Smiley

Offline Mojomonkey

Senior Member




ooh ooh eee eeee


« Reply #6 - Posted 2004-09-07 19:37:49 »

Quote
windowed mode is for debugging and smartasses.


Don't forget dumbasses like me. Smiley

Don't send a man to do a monkey's work.
Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #7 - Posted 2004-09-09 09:43:18 »

My opinion on LWJGL's recent evolution: The LWJGL team are being very agressive in moving towards the library they want, but I worry that they're moving too fast.

The GL class was split up into GL11, GL12 etc classes, because in a static-import world that's the best way to do it.  The problem is that static-import isn't here yet, and we're unlikely to see an official release of Java 1.5 for months.  So now we're stuck with awkward syntax, where you need to know what version of the OpenGL spec all of your methods, constants etc were introduced in.  Maybe you could argue that as LWJGL is a cutting-edge developmental library, people should be willing to use the cutting-edge beta JDK - but that argument goes out the window when you discover that even with 1.5 installed, if the IDE support isn't there you're SOL.

Windowed support has been neutered.  While I appreciate that LWJGL is targetted towards full-screen games, the devs must acknowledge that windowed support is useful to have - full-screen mode would be entirely inappropiate for a GL-accelerated Solitaire game, for instance.  The "official" way of rendering into a window now is by using the SWT bindings, but the SWT bindings are not included in any release, meaning that as of 0.91 windowed support is dead, and nothing is available to replace it.  Even if you can start using SWT bindings, they require SWT event-handling code - rendering a third of the LWJGL platform redundant.

I'm still here, watching with interest, but it's looking less likely that 1.0 will do the things I want it to.

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #8 - Posted 2004-09-09 10:47:33 »

Quote
My opinion on LWJGL's recent evolution: The LWJGL team are being very agressive in moving towards the library they want, but I worry that they're moving too fast.
And meanwhile, people complain about never releasing anything... Wink

Quote

The GL class was split up into GL11, GL12 etc classes, because in a static-import world that's the best way to do it.  The problem is that static-import isn't here yet, and we're unlikely to see an official release of Java 1.5 for months.  So now we're stuck with awkward syntax, where you need to know what version of the OpenGL spec all of your methods, constants etc were introduced in.  Maybe you could argue that as LWJGL is a cutting-edge developmental library, people should be willing to use the cutting-edge beta JDK - but that argument goes out the window when you discover that even with 1.5 installed, if the IDE support isn't there you're SOL.
FWIW, I think the "awkward" syntax is a great thing! Though it can be a bit annoying to locate a method, it is extremely usefull for making sure you only us GL1.x methods! I think it's worth it. If you *really* dont like it. use org.lwjgl.util.GL instead. Convinience class that holds most gl methods.

Quote

Windowed support has been neutered.  While I appreciate that LWJGL is targetted towards full-screen games, the devs must acknowledge that windowed support is useful to have - full-screen mode would be entirely inappropiate for a GL-accelerated Solitaire game, for instance.  The "official" way of rendering into a window now is by using the SWT bindings, but the SWT bindings are not included in any release, meaning that as of 0.91 windowed support is dead, and nothing is available to replace it.  Even if you can start using SWT bindings, they require SWT event-handling code - rendering a third of the LWJGL platform redundant.
Ah, the windowing stuff Smiley - well we're a bit torn because we (as in most :p) relly like windowed support, it's just *very* har d to get right on all platforms. Therefore we delegated the work to SWT, which someone (fbi, the person) was working on at that time. We have not heard from him since but we're very willing to compile a version with swt support once it supports at least win32 & linux. As for the input stuff, I really don't know entirely - there can easily be some technical reasons for having to use swt events. I am not up to date on this issue - someone enlighten me Smiley

Quote

I'm still here, watching with interest, but it's looking less likely that 1.0 will do the things I want it to.
LWJGL will (to a large extent) do what the community wants. However, since there is a huge difference in commitment in between those that want stuff and those that actually implement stuff, then the stuff that actually gets implemented is prioritized by those that actually do the work. This is not a critique of people not implementing stuff for lwjgl, since many can't code c++ (or c actually). But it does emphasize how things get implemented.

Offline Spasi
« Reply #9 - Posted 2004-09-09 11:08:12 »

IMHO you *should* know what version each extension got in and I find it very helpful that LWJGL forces you to that direction. In fact, I'm against using the GL class that Matzon mentioned. Besides, it's not causing any delays when writing the code, given any modern IDE (autocomplete, etc).

As for Java 1.5 and static imports, almost all of the popular IDEs support 1.5 features. Which IDE do you use? I've been using 1.5 since the first beta and IIRC had to wait only for a couple of weeks for IDEA to support it (not fully, but was workable). Beside LWJGL, 1.5 is absolutely worth the effort. Generics safety and the code cleanup are great.

FYI, a Sun guy said 1.5 final should be out at the end of this month.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline karatemarkel

Junior Member





« Reply #10 - Posted 2004-09-09 15:04:48 »

Works ok here, but what happened to vsync?
Offline Middy

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #11 - Posted 2004-09-09 16:02:33 »

is it gone, well good riddance. You couldent trust it anyway

When do I get my makeMyGameAsILike() extension?
Offline karatemarkel

Junior Member





« Reply #12 - Posted 2004-09-09 16:45:33 »

Oops, no its still there Smiley

I was looking through good'ole FullScreenWindowedTest.java, only just noticed that Display.setVSyncEnabled(true) has now been placed into glInit().

Slightly off topic. What's the score with TFT monitors and VSync, do they always sync at 60htz, or should I look to using a proper timer for a game release?
Offline elias

Senior Member





« Reply #13 - Posted 2004-09-09 16:50:19 »

Quote

The GL class was split up into GL11, GL12 etc classes, because in a static-import world that's the best way to do it.  The problem is that static-import isn't here yet, and we're unlikely to see an official release of Java 1.5 for months.  So now we're stuck with awkward syntax, where you need to know what version of the OpenGL spec all of your methods, constants etc were introduced in.  Maybe you could argue that as LWJGL is a cutting-edge developmental library, people should be willing to use the cutting-edge beta JDK - but that argument goes out the window when you discover that even with 1.5 installed, if the IDE support isn't there you're SOL.



I agree with others around here. I did the mainly split because it forced me to think about which GL version (or extension) to use.

Quote

Windowed support has been neutered.  While I appreciate that LWJGL is targetted towards full-screen games, the devs must acknowledge that windowed support is useful to have - full-screen mode would be entirely inappropiate for a GL-accelerated Solitaire game, for instance.  The "official" way of rendering into a window now is by using the SWT bindings, but the SWT bindings are not included in any release, meaning that as of 0.91 windowed support is dead, and nothing is available to replace it.  Even if you can start using SWT bindings, they require SWT event-handling code - rendering a third of the LWJGL platform redundant.


I know we've been over this before, but what exactly are you missing from 0.92? If it is the arbitrary dimensions support, it should be possible because you are allowed to create DisplayModes. If it is the positioning of windows, most linux window managers ignore the window positioning anyway (even though I specify it in the native code).

What else is missing?

- elias

Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #14 - Posted 2004-09-09 18:02:17 »

Quote
Oops, no its still there Smiley

I was looking through good'ole FullScreenWindowedTest.java, only just noticed that Display.setVSyncEnabled(true) has now been placed into glInit().

Slightly off topic. What's the score with TFT monitors and VSync, do they always sync at 60htz, or should I look to using a proper timer for a game release?


Synced or not is a driver thingy. Most TFTs run at 60hz (some at 55hz).

Nvidia cards can tell you if vsync is enabled or not. Unfortunately all other cards don't. (The gl specs left some room there for interpretation... duh).

Well, you can't know if vsync enabling worked or not. So... tickbased timing can behave very odd if you don't use frame capping as backup (try the sync and sync2 methods). Even if you use proper time fraction stuff you should use some kind of capping. You get some air for the gc that way and well it doesn't make sense to render more frames than hz anyways Wink

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline karatemarkel

Junior Member





« Reply #15 - Posted 2004-09-10 11:02:41 »

Cheers onyx, I'll look in to it when the time comes.

Noticed there's a timer class in LWJGL now, haven't got a clue how to use it or even what it's for, but I should be ok using vsync for development purposes anyway.


Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #16 - Posted 2004-09-10 11:58:48 »

it just gives the value of the high performance counter for the platform. You will need to check with the resolution too.

Typically you can just use the sync and sync2 methods instead

Offline karatemarkel

Junior Member





« Reply #17 - Posted 2004-09-10 13:43:52 »

/waves hand jedi like:

What and where are these sync and sync2 methods of which you speak.

Are these part of lwjgl or are they just some tried and tested timing methods, can't seem to find any info on them. I've always relied on vsync but going by the advice on here its time to look into something more reliable I guess.

Cheers
Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #18 - Posted 2004-09-10 16:10:09 »

Quote
What and where are these sync and sync2 methods of which you speak.


org.lwjgl.opengl.Display.sync/sync2.  Javadoc for sync:

Quote
sync

public static void sync(int fps)

   Synchronize the display to a capped frame rate. Note that we are being "smart" about the desired results in our implementation; we automatically subtract 1 from the desired framerate to prevent just missing the frame time if vsync is set.

   Parameters:
       fps - The desired frame rate, in frames per second


Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline karatemarkel

Junior Member





« Reply #19 - Posted 2004-09-10 16:20:46 »

Oh, the *other* Display class, sorry, I deserve a slap for not seeing that.

Cheers cfmdobbie
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