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  Help! I've got an interview with a local games co.  (Read 7397 times)
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Offline barfy

Junior Member




The evidence of things not seen


« Posted 2004-08-23 06:45:06 »

For a games programming job no less!

So help me! I'm scared!

What to wear? What to bring? what to say? what to do? AaaaarrrrghhH!!!!!


Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #1 - Posted 2004-08-23 09:32:53 »

Congrats  Smiley

I don't have experience with job interviews with for a games programming job, but nevertheless I hope this is helpful:

"What to wear?"
It won't hurt to dress sharp. Some companies might have a problem with people coming to an interview underdressed, but I never heard of companies having a problem with people coming overdressed.

"What to bring?"
Bring your resume with everything you've done. Even the things that are not games related. And be sure you bring everything you might have sent them, in case they're referring to it. Maybe bring some notes with questions you might want to ask them.

"What to say? What to do?"
Always be positive in everything you say. For example don't talk about how much one company you worked for sucked, but rather tell them what challenged you to go work somewhere else.
Try to take a lead in the conversation sometimes. Don't just wait for questions to answer, ask questions yourself too. Companies love to talk about their company. You'll score when they talk about their company and you find an aspect where your expertise will be particulary helpful. It should be a 2 way conversation. They examine if they could use you, you examine if you want to work for them.
Don't start talking about money demands until they do a job proposal.

"AaaaarrrrghhH!!!!!"
Try to remember they are looking for someone that might be you. You have something to offer them as much as they have something to offer you.

Offline shmoove

Junior Member




Doh!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2004-08-23 10:30:27 »

Good advice.

Here's some more taken from the Sloperama Game Biz Advice pages (Lesson #9: "Applying for a job in game design"):
Quote

9. The interview. Don't put on a 3-piece suit. Nobody in a game studio (aside from some top executives) wears a suit. Wear clean presentable clothes. Long pants. A shirt with no holes in it except those needed for your head and arms to poke out of. Shoes and socks. Bring your package (maybe 2 or 3 copies of the resume and cover letter; you might or might not be leaving your sample behind, most likely, depending on what's in your sample).

The main goody, the best thing you bring to the interview, is you. Be eager, attentive, charming. Your goal is to get a job, any job, so that you can eventually be a game designer. As discussed above, don't hold out for the highly-sought-after "Game Designer" position. Find out what job openings are available. Figure out which opening is suited to your skills and interests. That's the job you should be angling for.

What the company is looking for is hard-working, smart, capable communicators first and foremost. That's the impression you want to convey, through your appearance, your eye contact, and what you say during the interview.


The rest of the article, and the whole site for that matter, might also be a useful read.

shmoove
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #3 - Posted 2004-08-23 11:35:51 »

Everyone (well, alot of people) say in the games industry you don't need to dress up for an interview.  I think that's totally crap.  At the minumum for any job you should be wearing a jacket and tie (IMHO).

Goodluck and keep us posted!

Offline rreyelts

Junior Member




There is nothing Nu under the sun


« Reply #4 - Posted 2004-08-23 12:08:42 »

Quote
Everyone (well, alot of people) say in the games industry you don't need to dress up for an interview.  I think that's totally crap.  At the minumum for any job you should be wearing a jacket and tie (IMHO).

Strange - I interview for job positions (we're just now interviewing for five more senior/junior software engineering positions), and I immediately become suspect of anyone who arrives in a tie and suit. That doesn't mean I want to see you coming in looking sloppy. It just means that I don't want to be distracted by your clothing, so I can pay attention to you.

God bless,
-Toby Reyelts

About me: http://jroller.com/page/rreyelts
Jace - Easier JNI: http://jace.reyelts.com/jace
Retroweaver - Compile on JDK1.5, and deploy on 1.4: http://retroweaver.sf.net.
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 164
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #5 - Posted 2004-08-23 12:13:03 »

Odd that you'd find a shirt and tie distracting, if you're _really_ not interested in their clothing why would you be suspicious of a suit and tie?

Kev "Suit and Tie Wearing Interviewie" Glass

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #6 - Posted 2004-08-23 13:05:11 »

Personally I find it easier to work in "work clothes" (i.e. something I'm not going to wear at home, i.e. suit + tie) because then it's much easier to maintain a home / work separation both consciously and sub-consciously.

When there's no difference between being at home and being at work, your ability to differentiate implicitly  blurs (who can blame your mind for this? There's hardly any more tangible difference than changing jobs and working in different offices!), and for many people everything suffers - home-life, stress levels, ability to balanc home/work, etc. Even though you can't generally see yourself in the clothes you are wearing, they have a huge psychological effect on you (find a brunette who's tried being blonde for a few weeks and ask them what difference *that* makes Tongue).

So, I prefer work for employers with a dress code, preferably suit and tie.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #7 - Posted 2004-08-23 13:21:20 »

OTOH, when wearing a suit and tie is just 'not done' in a company, you might separate yourself from your collegues if you still wear them. In that case you could replace your suit and tie for some funky sunglasses (or whatever 'suits' the company) and still have the psychological home/work separation Smiley

Offline rreyelts

Junior Member




There is nothing Nu under the sun


« Reply #8 - Posted 2004-08-23 15:48:38 »

Quote
Odd that you'd find a shirt and tie distracting, if you're _really_ not interested in their clothing why would you be suspicious of a suit and tie?

I find it distracting, because I've never worked in a professional environment where the technically competent denizens bear suits and ties. Sure, recently-graduated-from-college clueless consultants who are employed by the likes of Accenture - they wear suits and ties. Sure, project managers who don't have an inkling of comprehension related to the technical aspects of their project - they wear suits and ties. Those statements are based on a stereotype, but that stereotype has been validated throughout my entire career. It doesn't mean that I'll pre-emptively dismiss someone wearing a suit and tie, but it does means that I will initially be distracted.

I guess I should mention that if you plan on working for a PSO, then it might be different for the interview. I'm coming from the POV of an engineering team. OTOH, I've done plenty of PS engagements, and I've never worn a suit and tie when working with the client.

God bless,
-Toby Reyelts

About me: http://jroller.com/page/rreyelts
Jace - Easier JNI: http://jace.reyelts.com/jace
Retroweaver - Compile on JDK1.5, and deploy on 1.4: http://retroweaver.sf.net.
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 164
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #9 - Posted 2004-08-23 15:53:15 »

I guess its just down to experience, I've met plenty of developers now and I've never really seen a distict pattern relating ability to dress code. I met plenty of folks like you describe, but I've also met plenty of "layed back" folks whole think that talking geek is what makes a good engineer...

There are plenty of ways to judge people, I guess clothes is just another one...

Kev

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline rreyelts

Junior Member




There is nothing Nu under the sun


« Reply #10 - Posted 2004-08-23 16:17:24 »

Quote
There are plenty of ways to judge people, I guess clothes is just another one...

Everyone does this - if you see someone in tattered clothing, you're going to assume they a) are poor, b) don't care about their appearance, or c) are trying to be nonconformist. The actual case may be none of the above, but the point is, you're going to form opinions on people based on the information you have on them. Appearance is the first information you get on a person. Until that person can give you more information, that's what you've got to go on. As you get more information, you re-evaluate what you know... Of course, since I look like a badass (Chrono), I must be one. Wink

God bless,
-Toby Reyelts

About me: http://jroller.com/page/rreyelts
Jace - Easier JNI: http://jace.reyelts.com/jace
Retroweaver - Compile on JDK1.5, and deploy on 1.4: http://retroweaver.sf.net.
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 164
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #11 - Posted 2004-08-23 16:37:18 »

Fear the badass! Wink

Na, all I'm saying is that going to an interview not wearing a suit because you think it implies that you're technical superior to your suited collegues is misguided. About as much as wearing a suit makes you more business like than an underdressed fellow.

In most cases a suit at an interview is still viewed as normal.

Kev

Offline dranonymous

Junior Member




Hoping to become a Java Titan someday!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2004-08-23 16:41:35 »

I'm very junior at my company, 4 years come November.  I've been able to be on the interview team a few times.  We do a group interview, to dispense with the same questions being asked by each individual, then we have one on ones.

I'd echo that its much harder to overdress than it is to underdress.  You can fix an overdresser much easier than then other way around once you higher them.

Our division dress is fairly conservative.  Polos are fine, with dress pants, belt, etc.  When we meet with clients, my supervisor expects a tie on for the men and .... well, I don't know what she expects of the women, but its roughly equivalent.  Dress up for clients, look nice normally.

The thing I have a personal gripe about is honesty.  If you are asked something and you don't know the answer.  Just say so.  If you've heard about it, say you've heard about it and maybe you'd like to learn more.  A hint of untruthfullness doesn't look good, IMHO.

No matter what.  Just remember your interview is to gain a good understanding of your skills and how you operate, not to make you feel bad or stress you out.  A friend once advised that if you have an interview then you have already passed the technical requirements, they just need to see how compatible you are with their work environment.

Best of luck!

Dr. A>
Offline aNt

Senior Member




AFK


« Reply #13 - Posted 2004-08-23 18:48:45 »

looking rock and roll is always good. not to bling mind
your not on the pull. most are just looking for neat (hats
are not to cool these days). shave and get yer hair cut
dont forget u will have to go behind the camera to sell
there game at some point- look pucker.

next stuff- bring stuff u no they havent seen. it dont
matter if its not yours most of the time . helps if it is
mind- u dont want to get rummbled later on down the
line. take a swimming certificate, always good for a
giggle.

bar trick: drag um all down the bar at the end of the
night. and u is in !! simple as that...

oh helps if u no what the job title is- but 'hay' come on,
may as well go in there with an eye on the big desk!
Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #14 - Posted 2004-08-23 21:12:59 »

Yeah, for an interview a suit and tie is mandatory.  It doesn't matter after that - if the company dress code is casual then by all means turn up on your first day in ripped jeans and a t-shirt.  But for the interview, get the suit out.

Congratulations!

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline rreyelts

Junior Member




There is nothing Nu under the sun


« Reply #15 - Posted 2004-08-23 22:30:54 »

Quote
Yeah, for an interview a suit and tie is mandatory.

Darn, I guess I'll have to tell the people here they need to fire me cause I interviewed in slacks. Wink

I wonder if some of this has to do with culture, i.e. how much it varies from country to country - or even state to state.

God bless,
-Toby Reyelts

About me: http://jroller.com/page/rreyelts
Jace - Easier JNI: http://jace.reyelts.com/jace
Retroweaver - Compile on JDK1.5, and deploy on 1.4: http://retroweaver.sf.net.
Offline barfy

Junior Member




The evidence of things not seen


« Reply #16 - Posted 2004-08-24 00:25:34 »

Hey guys,

Thanks fo all the sound advice. I definitely am going to put on at least a shirt/tie and nice workpants. Perhaps it's different in the US / Australia - down here, if you come in in anything less, you'll probably be labelled with something unkind.

Actually, I'm not toooo worried about the interview itself. I'm really more worried about whether I'm actually suitable for the job or not.

I've got 0 professional experience, and 0 experience in C++, and only limited experience in C from my Uni days. And they say they only code in C/C++. They've asked me to bring along / submit some source code and the crappy thing is that all I have are Java skills, and I've only got my half-finished, not-too-flash game to show for it. While I'm quite proud of how much I learnt from creating that game (since I started with practically 0 knowledge in graphics / game programming), i know it's not exactly cutting-edge or elegant. Still it represents that I can learn pretty quick and I'm driven enough to learn and apply new things and work on a project pretty much independently.

And i think I just want to take this opportunity to say a big THANK YOU to everyone in this forum for helping me come this far!

Anyway, what I feel I do have is POTENTIAL POTENTIAL POTENTIAL. If some company is willing to invest in me, I know I'll be an asset after some OJT and experience since I do learn things fast + I'm actually passionate about programming. That's the problem though with small startups though, they usually prefer someone with experience and who can do their job straight away rather than someone with potential and needs to be groomed since it costs probably a significant amount of time and money before the person is able to contribute.

Btw, I plan to pick up C++ since it's still extremely popular in the IT industry. To all who have programmed in C/C++: Is it easy to pick up? How long would it usually take to be proficient in it given that I already know basic game programming and Java?

And to those interested in learning J2EE, I'd like to share that there's a free online course that you can sign up for here: http://www.javapassion.com/j2ee

Interview is tomorrow. Pray for me guys Smiley Will let you peeps know how it goes.

Offline DanK

Junior Member




Javver games rock yawel!


« Reply #17 - Posted 2004-08-24 01:57:53 »

Personally I feel that the minimum you can dress for a job if you actually want to get it, is a dress shirt and tie, some decent slacks or other pants is recommended too. The article that says don't overdress by wearing a 3 piece suit names about the only thing that could be considered overdressing for any non-executive/lawyer position, and anymore, a 3 piece suit seems like a bit much for even a lawyer to be wearing (unless the lawyer is at least 50 years old). You could get hired wearing anything, but if you dress like you are serious about getting a job it'll help (probably a lot).

Most games companies probably won't have really strict dress codes though I assume larger ones like EA probably maintain white collar dress codes (I am probably wrong about that, but it's what I'm going to continue to assume until I find out otherwise hehe).

It doesn't matter what kind of job you're interviewing for really, the same rules pretty much apply to everyone, the size of a company (how well established they are) will probably have some impact, as the larger and more 'prestigious' the company the more likely they are to have higher expectations of dress codes at least during an interview. Dressing up for an interview is just one way of saying you are serious about the job, by not dressing up you are saying the opposite, typically interviewers are looking for reasons to say no because when they are dealing with a large number of people it's easier to find the flaws and it's extremely hard to weigh one person against another.

Anyway, if you have any doubts about how to interview, typically the local unemployeement office (in the states, not sure what the system is like anywhere else) will be able to give you a pamplet of pointers on how to interview.

Offline DanK

Junior Member




Javver games rock yawel!


« Reply #18 - Posted 2004-08-24 02:05:50 »

Oh yeah, for job suitability, I wouldn't worry about it to much, so long as you are generally competant, you can pick up on a new langauge fairly quickly, and my experience with games (and well, programming in general) is every now and then you have to do something new which can be frustraiting, challenging, and probably more entertaining than your typical work days, but 95% of the time you are just applying the same techniques over and over.

Offline sillysoft

Junior Member


Projects: 1


Waaaaaaaaaaaah!


« Reply #19 - Posted 2004-08-24 03:43:34 »

Quote
Most games companies probably won't have really strict dress codes though I assume larger ones like EA probably maintain white collar dress codes (I am probably wrong about that, but it's what I'm going to continue to assume until I find out otherwise hehe).

I was in EA's Montreal office the other day, and I can assure you that there was no dress code. Some people were in shorts and/or sandals.

I have never had a job where I was required to wear a suit or tie. I imagine I would get used to it, but I think it would be weird and unsettling at first.

Offline abies

Senior Member





« Reply #20 - Posted 2004-08-24 04:59:22 »

In my company, there is no dress code - people run around in short trousers, sandals on bare feet, etc. But still, where there is interview with a new person, people who talk with candidates have suits - sometimes only waistcoat instead of coat if it is very hot, but still elegant.

This is not as much about a dress code, it is about showing that you care about other person/job. I would not risk going to any job interview in anything totally casual - but probably nice shirt/jacket/non-jeans trousers is enough in most cases here.

Of course, in case you will get hired, please ask about a dress code - and ask for more money if there is such thing in company Smiley I have a friend who works in bank, he has to iron new white shirt every evening before going to bed... Another 15 minutes taken from life every day...

Artur Biesiadowski
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 164
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #21 - Posted 2004-08-24 05:06:05 »

Quote

Btw, I plan to pick up C++ since it's still extremely popular in the IT industry. To all who have programmed in C/C++: Is it easy to pick up?


I've been programming in C++ for quite a few years and professionally for a few now. Don't mark this down as a trivial activity. There is a reason that people prefer to program in Java, you find you spend far more time in C++ worrying about language nuances than actually designing the software. The biggest hurdle is probably the C++ engineers culture tho. I'm going to write a paper on this one day, what ever the language is best at is what the engineers will focus on even tho this is the exact opposite of what they should do. Some examples:

Java Culture - everyone loves great design, however Java will tend you in the right direction anyway. Where you really need to focus is peformance.

C++ Culture - everyone loves performance. You'll get that from C++ pretty easily, where you should be focusing is maintainability.

Visual Basic Culture - everyone wants it down quickly. You'll get that since the whole langauge is about rapid prototyping, what you need to think about is reusability.

and finally my favorite:

Perl Culture - everyone wants to make their code unreadable, the language does that for you Smiley What you should be focusing on is changing lanaguage. Wink </troll>

Kev

Offline Bombadil

Senior Member





« Reply #22 - Posted 2004-08-24 05:50:44 »

Quote

I've been programming in C++ for quite a few years and professionally for a few now. Don't mark this down as a trivial activity. There is a reason that people prefer to program in Java, you find you spend far more time in C++ worrying about language nuances than actually designing the software. The biggest hurdle is probably the C++ engineers culture tho.

I fully agree with Kev, as usual. I found using C++ not to be a pleasure, compared to Java. Add to this the lack of good (!) documentation in too many C++ areas.
Still I'd suggest you (Barfy) go for the games job, if possible. Do it a few years, even if you've to battle with C++. You'll learn a lot about the complexity of game programming and also the nasty things in gaming industry, like for example the most inhuman deadlines ever, and so on. After this I'd suggest to move to a solid business with a smart language like Java. :-)

Quote
Perl Culture - everyone wants to make their code unreadable, the language does that for you :)

Perl, the famous "write only" langauge. :-)

Anyway, good luck Barfy and God bless you.
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #23 - Posted 2004-08-24 10:07:11 »

Quote
Btw, I plan to pick up C++ since it's still extremely popular in the IT industry. To all who have programmed in C/C++: Is it easy to pick up?  


I've never coded in c++ professionally, but I did study it in school.  I have used it a bit on my own and written one non trivial application with it (a level editor).  

I'm not a c++ guru by any means.  When I code in c++ I find myself coding in java-like subset ie, no enums, operator overloading, or multiple inheritance for example.  Using the STL helps alot too.  C/C++ coders seem to delight in using the language features to make their code as obtuse and their designs overly intricate.  People talk about the 'expressive power' of c++.  I think that's complete garbage.  Or maybe I haven't reached that level as a programmer yet.

C++, is it easy to pickup? Depends on you.  Is it easy to master?  Hell no!
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #24 - Posted 2004-08-24 10:52:37 »

Quote

C/C++ coders seem to delight in using the language features to make their code as obtuse and their designs overly intricate.  People talk about the 'expressive power' of c++.  I think that's complete garbage.


For application development you are spot on.

For engine development, you *need* all that intricate obtuse stuff.

My guess is that most of the abuse stems from intermediate programmers who wish they were gurus, or inexperienced programmers practising to try and get a hardcore engine job. I've met many of the latter category whose diligent obfuscation (!) attempts paid off and they landed core engine programming jobs for games companies.

However, for those of us who have to work with them beforehand, they are a liability that the producer often would like to get rid of (assuming they cannot be coerced into working better at their *current* job).

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #25 - Posted 2004-08-24 10:54:05 »

Quote

Most games companies probably won't have really strict dress codes though I assume larger ones like EA probably maintain white collar dress codes (I am probably wrong about that, but it's what I'm going to continue to assume until I find out otherwise hehe).


When I've been to their offices there's been no dress code. The senior EA execs I've met wear smart-casual - unbuttoned polo shirt etc.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #26 - Posted 2004-08-24 10:54:40 »

Quote

The biggest hurdle is probably the C++ engineers culture tho. I'm going to write a paper on this one day, what ever the language is best at is what the engineers will focus on even tho this is the exact opposite of what they should do.


Never heard that concept before, but IMHO it's brilliantly accurate.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline DanK

Junior Member




Javver games rock yawel!


« Reply #27 - Posted 2004-08-24 23:59:07 »

I've witnessed the perl culture before, those buggers openly admit their evil plan to make their code unreadable (perl programmers).

Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #28 - Posted 2004-08-25 01:20:31 »

Quote
For engine development, you *need* all that intricate obtuse stuff.


Really?  That statement seemingly undermines your prodigeous java advocacy....

Grin
Offline barfy

Junior Member




The evidence of things not seen


« Reply #29 - Posted 2004-08-25 04:21:13 »

Here's how it went:

My interview with the CTO of the company went pretty well. We talked for awhile and he asked about my comments about Java and .NET taking over C++ in the games industry, and he tested me with a simple collision detection problem which I answered pretty easily.

Unfortunately, my other interview with the COO (chief operations officer) didn't go really well. He was stressing that the game industry has horrible 80-100hr working weeks and the tightest deadlines. Then he basically said that he's afraid to hire me because I have no professional game industry experience and that all the guys he has interviewed and hired have experience in that area.

After my formal interviews, the CTO invited me to have an informal chat with one of the programmers in the team. And we talked about the gaming industry blah blah, my BenTris game that I used as my portfolio and even a little about John Carmack and his prodiguous talent.

Altogether, I was there for close to 3hrs I think.

We'll see if all that has paid off or not in a week and a half.


 
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