java 1.1 compatiable 3d engine?

[JeramieHicks]

I'd have to agree with the undesirable state of Java on the average machine. We've been distributing a Java-based 3D engine (our own using LWJGL 0.7) and, in the process of doing tech support, we've discovered many, many, many people either don't have Java, don't have Java 1.4, don't have a video driver besides their default (non-hardware accelerated) driver... don't be so quick to put down a statement until you've been in the trenches dealing with the typical public vs Java 1.4 and modern video drivers.

[Torquemada]

Sorry if these questions are dumb but...

Do browsers come with a java runtime? And if so, why don't newer releases of browsers contain the latest java runtime? Surely there must be some general push towards newer technology?

[tom]

Java do not come with the browser. When downloading Opera you get the option of also include Java. But the java runtime is 3.5 times the size of the browser. So I understand if poeple with slow internet don't bother including it.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[jesmith]

Sorry if these questions are dumb but...

Do browsers come with a java runtime? And if so, why don't newer releases of browsers contain the latest java runtime? Surely there must be some general push towards newer technology?

Every major and almost every minor OEM distributor of computer equipment includes the latest Java from Sun with new computers they ship, and all browsers will, by default, use the Java that is installed on the machine.

The only way to end up with no Java on a machine is if you buy Windows XP or Linux in a box, reformat your drive, and install from scratch.

Macromedia's studies show Java is available on about 90% of machines browsing the net (for comparison, it showed Adobe Acrobat at 80%).  These number were gathered with a questionable methodology, but they're probably in the right ballpark.

Last March, Sun published figures showing Java was on 650,000 machines.

Of course, to the original point of this thread, a significant portion of those machines are still running the 1.1.4ish MS JVM, so any broad-based consumer application will need to limit the features used to the 1.1 set.

Anecdotally, our 3D viewing solutions ( http://www.kaon.com/software ) have been used at dell.com for about 3 years now, and we've never had a complaint from Dell about Java availability on client machines.

-Joshua

[blahblahblahh]

Macromedia's studies show Java is available on about 90% of machines browsing the net (for comparison, it showed Adobe Acrobat at 80%).

As a community we've been asking Sun for these figures for 12 months, and asking for 2 years for related figures that Sun are known to have and promised to give out.

Almost 2 months ago I asked ChrisM for this or any related data, and he asked for it from internal Sun people, but here we are in Jan 2005 and still nothing has come through.

So, while they're idling along, please could you provide a ref for this MM study? Poor methodology is fine - right now, with Sun being unco-operative (you would think they'd be shouting this from the rooftops) most of us have zero large-scale reference points, so something is better than nothing, so long as we can corroborate it...