Contest ?

[ChrisM]

I agree with cfmdobbie, 1 contest with a number of awards.  This isn't a "demo" contest, it's a game contest.  I rmemeber one 64k demo that generated 120MB of code on the client.....the contest wasn't a "delivery" contest, it was a "demo" contest.

Now, I have a suggestion for all of you.  From an old school gamer (not old, just oldschool ), how about someone doing a 3D pinball game in Java?  Full screen, 3D models, etc.  Pinball friggin rocks and there is quite a bit of heavy lifting physics that can be applied.  

What do you think?  

-SG

[erikd]

It's a good idea. Many people like pinbal.  
I'd give it a try myself if I didn't hate pinball so much (I really suck at it big time)

[oNyx]

Maybe what you need is ONE contest, but a NUMBER of awards?

Most addictive/fun game.
Most impressive work in under 64KB.
Most audially/visually stunning.
Best "pure Java" of less than XXXKB.
Most technically impressive.
etc.

yea i'm fine with that

just add "Most impressive work in under 16KB." and we are ready to go

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[cfmdobbie]

Oh, don't all agree with me - that's no fun.

Okay, assuming you want that format of contest, you still have to work out how many and what awards you want, who the judges will be, the duration and end date, submission format, and what constitutes a valid entry.

Get Cracking!

[Chman]

you still have to work out how many and what awards you want, who the judges will be, the duration and end date, submission format, and what constitutes a valid entry

it's the contest goal

[Chman]

how many and what awards you want,

like others say :
Most addictive/fun game.
Most impressive work in under 16KB.
Most impressive work in under 64KB.
Most audially/visually stunning.
Best "pure Java" of less than 2MB.
Most technically impressive.

It should be enough....

who the judges will be,

don't know... moderators

the duration and end date,

I think a contest might last 1 month, no more.

submission format,

Everything submitted in a zip package

and what constitutes a valid entry.

We should set up a quotation table...

[oNyx]

yea i'm fine with that

just add "Most impressive work in under 16KB." and we are ready to go

duh... how screwed em i?!

i mean 4kb and not 16kb :[]

who the judges will be

hmm... whats bout everyone who submitted a game has 3 voices for each categorie, but cant vote for him/herself?

i think this way we would get the most representative result. in addition there wont be the ethic twist for moderators who would like to submit a game too

edit...

hmm... to be bulletproof the votes have to be hidden as long as the voting process is running. eg it's a bad thing if someone changes his vote to prevent someone from getting an award. and i think it's better if the votes are visible after voting is done... dunno why... just a feeling.

btw letting everyone vote on a page is the worst thing wich can happen. such stuff is easy to manipulate... and i can get 200+ ppl voting for me easily... if i wanna (but i dont wanna )

[Chman]

whats bout everyone who submitted a game has 3 voices for each categorie, but cant vote for him/herself?

looks good !

[swpalmer]

GREAT!  Looks like we have reached a consensus on the format.  Now let's get the word out...

It would help if we knew if there were going to be prizes, Chris?

If you could get a mention on java.sun.com that would go a long way.  I don't know how easy that is though...  the rest of us can submit news items at various other sites.

Oh yeah... when would the deadline be for submissions? And where should they be sent?

[Orangy Tang]

A point no-one seems to have looked at yet - the use of libs and such. Mainly not standard libs but peoples own code bases etc. for routine stuff, or even for more specialised things..

I'm all for allowing pretty much anything, with the cavet that the source has to be released along with the game

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[Chman]

I think we should define some "standard" library, like Java3D, lwjgl. Others will be released with the code and will be entered in package size.
Obviously, used libraries will be FREE libraries

[swpalmer]

Well I think any "standard extensions" that are available from java.sun.com should be allowed.  Java3D being the most obvious for this event.

lwjgl - makes sense that it would be allowed.
gl3java - if we allow lwjgl then gl4java should be included

Any libraries that are based on native code should be thin access layers like lwjgl.  If the library is pure Java, maybe it makes more sense to allow it to be a more significant part of the game logic.. e.g. a physics library

We don't want to give the impression that a significant amount of the work is done in native code.

[Chman]

No native code in contest if possible (except for external library)...

[erikd]

Most audially/visually stunning.

Let's divide that into 2 awards; one for audio/music and one for visuals.  

[cfmdobbie]

[size=3]First Cut of Contest Rules*[/size]

A valid entry must be (a) written in Java [or mostly Java?], and (b) be a finished [or nearly finished/"playable"?] game rather than a demo.

Entries may utilise a number of recognised libraries, detailed below.  All non-library source code must be made freely available at time of submission [under a recognised Open Source or Free Software licence? Probably BSD, GPL or PD?].  Library source code need not be supplied, and may not necessarily even be available.  However, any used libraries must be easily obtainable at zero cost to the user (no restriction on cost to the developer [?]).

Any JDK may be targeted, up to the most recently available widely-supported public release (no betas), currently 1.4.1_01 on Windows, Solaris and Linux [MacOSX?].

[or should entries be restricted to one or a small number of JDKs?  Known bugs in certain releases may make this unpopular, but it stops the judges having to install 33 different Java environments...]

Recognised external (i.e. non-J2SE) libraries are as follows:
 Java3D
 GL4Java
 LWJGL
 JSDL [?]
 Planetation [?]
?]
 SPGL [?]
Anything else?]

[Start date?  Duration of contest?]

[Multiple entries allowed/disallowed?]

All entries will be judged [in some way], with awards given in the following categories: [List to be discussed and agreed; lots of suggestions follow]

 Best overall (Grand Prize)
 Best work under 4KB [including/excluding libraries?  4KB of source or binaries?]
 Best work under 16KB [including/excluding libraries?  16KB of source or binaries?]
 Best work under 64KB [including/excluding libraries?  64KB of source or binaries?]
 Best "100% pure Java" under [XXXX]KB
 Most technically impressive
 Best aural experience
 Best visual experience
 Most fun
 Gratuitous use of Llamas
 Most likely to cause Sleepless Nights
 These are not to be taken seriously, folks
 Honest, this entire list is bogus - they all need to be discussed
 Congratulations on reading this far!

[Material prizes, or just recognition?]



* This is NOT meant to be the final rules!  This text must be DISCUSSED and REFINED.

Edit: Added awards

[Chman]

A valid entry must be (a) written in Java [or mostly Java?], and (b) be a finished [or nearly finished/"playable"?] game rather than a demo.

Only java, no native code (for compatibility purpose and it is a Java contest, isn't it ?) !

Yeah, the game will not have to be necessary finished, but playable, and without bug !


For the rest, it seems to be correct...

++
Chman

[princec]

Always include a "Grand Prix" aka "Unlimited" category, where people with unlimited time and resources can compete! I wouldn't mind putting XAP up against Magicosm or whatever; I don't reckon it would win necessarily but without the category there's a bunch of games that can't be entered!

Cas

[Chman]

I don't see the interest in making a "Grand Prix" category, because there's no time limit, and so there couldn't be any winner....

[erikd]

and without bug !

Hmmm... That would have counted out Half-Life and about every other AAA title.
Especially larger games are likely to have a bug or two (most likely a lot more).
As long as its not too critical, a bug should not exclude a submission.

[ChrisM]

Ok everyone, I will try and compile a contest outline over the next day or so that incorporates all of the ideas here into a format that we can follow.  As well, I am trying to get some prizes (perhaps even a Cobalt server for the best overall demo , but no guarantees) and am trying to get prizes from some of our partners (i.e. Sony, ATI, etc.)  I will let everyone know the details later this week.

-SG

[Chman]

Good good good news !  

[oNyx]

sounds great

i already started to code anyways (the voices in my head forced me... i'm innocent) :x

[Abuse]

wow, can't believe I completely missed this Thread
(actually heard about it on CFXWeb )

just 1 more issue :-

do entrants have to be original creations?
or will that be dependant on the category?
or is it whatever you can muster (past and present)

[Chman]

For the moment, nothing has been defined; but we are waiting for the contest outline...

[ChrisM]

Hey everyone!

Ok, I am working to get some prizes together before I finish getting the contest rules out.  I am on the west coast the first half of next week at corporate but will try to update everyone before I return from CA.  

This contest should be awesome!

Good evening citizens!

-SG

[Chman]

Thank SG for setting up this contest !

[blahblahblahh]

So it's not going to have any particular relation to the GDC any more then? (given that we only have, what, 1-2 weeks left before the GDC?)

If so, can I suggest you apply for a slot at the GDCE, although they may push you in the direction of the IGF (Independent Games Festival) instead.

From the number of people who said in the "Who's going to GDC?" thread "I can't, I'm in Europe", perhaps there's a chance of a good turnout at a GDCE/JGO event.

Also, conveniently, submissions for GDCE are only just starting to open, so there's plenty of time to get it all set up...

[rgeimer]

How about a free VIP pass to next years GDC as the grand prize! Just a thought...

[Chman]

yeah, or an E3 VIP pass for 2004 ?  

[starlord]

so that everyone would be happy, how about make a cd
that contain's latest java version and all the entries(with needed libraries) that are release quality(no bad bugs,etc..),then put it on
pc/gaming magazine's.