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  Java games can only be indie games  (Read 6660 times)
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Offline ChrisM

JGO Coder


Medals: 3
Projects: 1
Exp: 14 years


Luke...END OF LINE


« Reply #30 - Posted 2004-07-01 13:50:05 »

Quote


In all seriousness, why don't you do something new and NOT surprise us? (or, at least, not all of us). Serious players like MS and Sony don't surprise their developers, nor do the other the big players - it's bad for business, bad for relationships, and artificially increases time-to-market.


You are correct.  We should not "suprise" you.  When we have something, that is appropriate for public consumption, to tell you about Java technology on game consoles, we will let the community know.  (BTW, I'm not being sarcastic here, I mean it. )

However, this is not a closed developers forum, it is a public forum.  You are correct in that there will be developers who know about it first under NDA.  This is standard practice.  Do you know which developers have
spec. dev kits for the PS3? No. Why? Under NDA Smiley


-Chris

Offline Middy

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #31 - Posted 2004-07-01 14:21:05 »

blahblahblahh my topic was a cheap provocation intended to get attention I admit that. But its also valid when we look at how things are now. I dont think Java is taken  too seriously

Thats why I petetion for some kind of focus. Java could breakthrough if we could excel in some kind of niche production. Draw attention to Java. That dosent have to be a game, but a way of marketing.. whatever.. ;-)


But I am thrilled by the support of SUN, and as
 Cpt./Lt. Johnny Rico says in the movie Starship Troopers

I'm doing my part

When do I get my makeMyGameAsILike() extension?
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #32 - Posted 2004-07-01 14:47:00 »

Quote

However, this is not a closed developers forum, it is a public forum.  You are correct in that there will be developers who know about it first under NDA.  This is standard practice.  Do you know which


Sure, and all I'd expect to be said publically was "games developers interested in java on consoles apply [to email address xxx]. We will review your work, and get you to sign an NDA. If, after further discussion, it seems your work is relevant, we may accept you onto a secret program. We reserve the right to reject any applications, even once under NDA" or similar.

Which of course tells everyone else precisely nothing - other than that Sun is working on *something* to do with consoles (which we've known for a long time anyway Smiley).

Quote

developers have
spec. dev kits for the PS3? No. Why? Under NDA Smiley


OT, but...Actually, if you want to know, you can normally find out who many / most of them are. It's pretty difficult to construct a legal document that says you aren't allowed to tell anyone you are constrained by a legal document (doesn't stop lawyers trying, but what do you do when someone asks "are you under NDA on this subject?" - if you lie, and work for a public company, you have broken public company laws. If you tell the truth, you've broken the NDA. And if you say "no comment", then everyone knows you meant "yes" Tongue )

Or there's the tried and tested tactic of asking "what console is your game coming out on" and then looking at the recent hires (just look at job adverts on AASwift etc), which tends to quickly find the anomalies (e.g. superficial example: company has hired lots of multi-threaded programmers but has no PS projects at all. Hmm. Suspicious. Probably they're not doing PS2 because they're working on PS3 instead...)

So...news quickly spreads about who has and has not been NDA'd on something, even if few of the details of the thing itself spread.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline shawnkendall

Senior Member





« Reply #33 - Posted 2004-07-02 13:41:53 »

Quote
... I dont think Java is taken  too seriously

... That dosent have to be a game, but a way of marketing.. whatever.. ;-)]

Actually, it does have to be a game.
It has to be a big fat successful award winning, money making game.
Then it's done, Java MAY be taken seriously after that.

Shawn Kendall
Cosmic Interactive, LLC
http://www.facebook.com/BermudaDash
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 391
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #34 - Posted 2004-07-02 14:04:09 »

Let's see if I can get my games bundled on Dell then Wink

Cas Smiley

Offline Middy

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #35 - Posted 2004-07-02 16:58:37 »

Thats actually not a bad idea

When do I get my makeMyGameAsILike() extension?
Offline zingbat

Senior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #36 - Posted 2004-07-03 22:49:53 »

I didnt read this entire thread but it seams to me that once we have jogl with capability to work with opengl extensions we can pretty much put the fireworks you can see in any other game without any lack of quality compared to C++ code.

The argument that consoles dont run jvm is a little suspicious. Consoles, except for the XBox, dont run on windows either. Most consoles have a specific developing plataform made just for it. So i dont think java is in more disadvantage here than C++.

On the publishing part, these guys dont care if the game is made in java, prolog or whatever even more crazy language. If a game passes their quality tests they will publish, but you need to provide proof of concept.



Offline aldacron

Senior Member


Medals: 9
Exp: 16 years


Java games rock!


« Reply #37 - Posted 2004-07-04 00:27:11 »

Quote

The argument that consoles dont run jvm is a little suspicious. Consoles, except for the XBox, dont run on windows either. Most consoles have a specific developing plataform made just for it. So i dont think java is in more disadvantage here than C++.


The point is that you couldn't develop a Java game for any of the consoles if you wanted to. For a C++ game, you can support XBox, PS2, Windows, Mac, and Linux by abstracting the platform specific-code. Granted, that's a lot of work. But there are games out there that have been developed for multiple platforms in that way. Just look at the Unreal Engine. If you want a Java game to run on a console (at present anyway) you would have to rewrite the entire game in C++.
Offline Middy

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #38 - Posted 2004-07-04 07:13:42 »

I know some guys ate IOInteractive (people behind Hitman). They do what aldacron just described. Write in C++ and then compile to the different boxes.

Besides all SDKs for the boxes are written for and in C++. All professional engines are written for and in C++.  All the tools are aimed at C++.  Tongue

When do I get my makeMyGameAsILike() extension?
Offline zingbat

Senior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #39 - Posted 2004-07-04 19:49:37 »

Things will turn better with the next generation consoles i hope. With more memory they can put a jvm in there. If they can put one in a mobile phone they wont have any trouble with a console. Isnt there a version of linux that runs on ps2 ?
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline andyl

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #40 - Posted 2004-07-10 09:55:53 »

Quote
I know some guys ate IOInteractive (people behind Hitman). They do what aldacron just described. Write in C++ and then compile to the different boxes.

Besides all SDKs for the boxes are written for and in C++. All professional engines are written for and in C++.  All the tools are aimed at C++.  Tongue


Apart from the tooling the games designers use, which many companies are now looking into using C# for...

Smiley
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #41 - Posted 2004-07-18 20:55:30 »

Quote
Things will turn better with the next generation consoles i hope. With more memory they can put a jvm in there.


Incidently, did anybody know there is actually a JVM on a console, namely the sega dreamcast? I've also had a report of it being able to run CottAGE on it.
Sure, the DC is dead and I don't know how fast it really is, but it should be an indication that a JVM on a console *is* possible.

Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #42 - Posted 2004-07-18 22:45:12 »

Java on a DC? Nice. Smiley

After seeing Linux running on a gamecube, and playing someones homebrew game on it, I wonder how possible it'd be to run a linux JVM on top of it. It'd probably die due to lack or memory though.

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 391
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #43 - Posted 2004-07-19 06:56:09 »

The problem is always memory isn't it :/
I foresee three solutions to the memory issue:
1. Just honest-to-goodness optimisation
2. Structs - a massive memory and efficiency boost
3. Hardware bytecode interpreters - no need for costly compiler, profiling information, or machine code bloat.

3. is relatively easy - look at what Transmeta and ARM are up to - 2 is the next easiest and I'd say probably essential to the future of the Java platform as a mainstream solution and 1. is the work of a few late nights and a lot of Jolt.

Cas Smiley

Offline vrm

Junior Member




where I should sign ?


« Reply #44 - Posted 2004-07-19 07:02:58 »

with gcj I thnik you can cross compile on a lot of platform, I think those kind of tools are the way to go
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #45 - Posted 2004-07-20 07:27:25 »

Maybe for consoles, but I have yet to see a GCJ compiled HelloWorld running on any console  Wink

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 391
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #46 - Posted 2004-07-20 07:52:10 »

The theoretical existence of the technology is irrelevant. Anything is always possible. The only thing that will get anyone's attention is when Sony say "We have a fully supported Java2 VM on PS3 and we expect developers to start using it immediately as the primary API for PS3". Everything else is just idle chit-chat about dreams.

Cas Smiley

Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #47 - Posted 2004-07-20 09:52:56 »

Exactly.
I suppose the chances are very slim that will ever happen, so I just see java as a nice environment to code games for PC/Mac/Linux and nothing else (well, phones of course but I don't have experience with that).

But you never know...

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