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  JDK 1.5.0-beta2 is now available  (Read 9948 times)
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Offline javazoid

Junior Member




Where's Flender?


« Reply #60 - Posted 2004-06-04 08:10:51 »

I agree with CAS. Antialiased fonts would greately help the whole look of swing apps and wouldn't cost that much (and it's getting better, according to the last 1.5 fonts improvements).

Fonts AA could be controlled by a swing system property so we could easily allow users to use them by simply selecting a checkbox in the application prefs.

Mik

Offline selendic

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #61 - Posted 2004-06-04 10:42:19 »

Quote


Hi Cas,

In beta2, text is now antialiased by default for the GTK L&F if AA text is enabled on the desktop (see 5030990).  We will likely do the same for the Windows L&F in a future release, but probably not for Tiger.


Just tried it on Linux box. Actually very nice (on CRT) and surprisingly fast (as opposed to what I've seen on windows so far). Now, if only you would honor KDE AA settings in final release, it would be almost perfect (perfect would be if KDE themes were supported)

Quote

Trust me when I say we work very hard to make text rendering quality a priority.  We have more improvements on the way to improve quality of text on LCD screens, and to use AA text whenever appropriate (as mentioned above), and so on.  Native L&F fidelity is a must if Java apps are to blend in seamlessly with the desktop environment...
Thanks,
Chris


Finally. Especially nice to see you are working on AA for LCD screens.  Adding kerning to the text layout would be nice too.
BTW, I know there is a Swing command line switch somewhere in beta2. Care to share that with us? Pretty please?
Offline Mikael Grev

Junior Member




Appearance is everything!


« Reply #62 - Posted 2004-06-04 11:30:42 »

Wouldn't it be nice to, in the Java Control Panel, have some choice:

* No AA fonts, ever. Period.
* Application decides what to do.
* Always AA fonts above size: [  ]
* Always AA fonts, no matter what.
* Do as the windows manager prefers...

(This all have to be written in "boring natural language" though)

The default value could then be tweaked to a more aggressive setting as we move towards a better (more good looking and higher performant) implementation.

If done like this, there would be no more to bitch about concerning AA fonts, everybody could have their own way! This would be good, cause then we can bitch about something else instead! Like GregorianCalendar! ;-)

Cheers,
Mikael

(Feeling cranky today)
:-)

Mikael Grev.
www.migcalendar.com - Advanced Calendar Component
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #63 - Posted 2004-06-04 15:40:35 »

For some of the reasons on why  AA text is not enabled on windows check out this bug (and its many duplicates):
 4502804: FontSmoothing/AntiAlias not utilized by default despite OS setting
Offline selendic

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #64 - Posted 2004-06-04 16:15:52 »

Quote
For some of the reasons on why  AA text is not enabled on windows check out this bug (and its many duplicates):
 4502804: FontSmoothing/AntiAlias not utilized by default despite OS setting


I can't find any reason there explaining why AA fonts aren't enabled on Win. Just a requests to make it happen. Are you sure we are seeing a same Bug page?
Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #65 - Posted 2004-06-04 17:37:58 »

Take a look at Phi's explanation in the evaluation.

The main idea I wanted to convey is that it's not as easy as just flipping a switch.
Offline selendic

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #66 - Posted 2004-06-04 18:19:26 »

Quote
Take a look at Phi's explanation in the evaluation.

The main idea I wanted to convey is that it's not as easy as just flipping a switch.


Evaluation that I (we outside the Sun) can see is "This is an interesting idea that deserves further investigation.
xxxxx@xxxxx  2001-11-14"

I assume that you are seeing some internal comment than we can't reach. I do know AA is a complicated beast to do right. However, I clearly can see that some form of switch for current implementation is there, because you are doing it on Gnome.  Btw, wasn't there some STSF stuff from Sun that was ment to address portable font rendering for Java/Star(Open)Office?
Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #67 - Posted 2004-06-04 18:25:44 »

Duh! I guess it hasn't been synched to the internal dbase yet. Check it later today..

Online princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 378
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #68 - Posted 2004-06-04 20:19:52 »

I still can't see what possible excuse there is for not enabling font antialiasing in Swing by default on all platforms. Right now I have to do it manually with lots of hackery and trickery with the look & feel code, and it's very annoying.

Cas Smiley

Offline Mikael Grev

Junior Member




Appearance is everything!


« Reply #69 - Posted 2004-06-04 23:01:07 »

Small sans serif AA fonts (especially if it's not BLACK/WHITE fg/bg and even more so on a TFT) look crap i think but bold larger fonts are beatiful, that's why i don't think they can be just turned on by default, cause it would make some dialogs look bad.

A lot of settings to tune it, that's the way to go i believe.

Mikael Grev.
www.migcalendar.com - Advanced Calendar Component
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #70 - Posted 2004-08-02 13:23:29 »

soo... a little late and back on topic:

Could not enable OpenGL pipeline for default config on screen 0

I get that on my 64mb 3D Graphics card with OpenGL 1.3 drivers.

Admin and Game Developer at
GameLizard.com
Play Rimscape!    |    Play Conquer!
Offline Abuse

JGO Knight


Medals: 12


falling into the abyss of reality


« Reply #71 - Posted 2004-08-02 13:27:19 »

What card is it? ATI perhaps?

Make Elite IV:Dangerous happen! Pledge your backing at KICKSTARTER here! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/54785909/EliteIVsmaller.png
Offline Malohkan

Senior Member




while (true) System.out.println("WOO!!!!");


« Reply #72 - Posted 2004-08-02 13:30:07 »

Intel graphics controller on my laptop

Oh... and what about mac's?

Admin and Game Developer at
GameLizard.com
Play Rimscape!    |    Play Conquer!
Offline ozak

Junior Member




Java demon has no respect for bad code!!!


« Reply #73 - Posted 2004-08-10 19:27:59 »

Amazing. And here we are on OS X.. Still no hardware acceleration on 1.4.2. Still no 1.5. Still so many bugs introduced with each update.

Maybe sun should be in charge of java for OS X as it's practically useless for games in java, unless you write an OpenGL 2D layer, which shouldn't be neccesary.

Oh well Smiley

Want to do multiplayer? Why not try my free Socky socket server?
It's scriptable through JavaScript!
Check it out at http://www.furi.dk/socky
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #74 - Posted 2004-08-10 22:47:40 »

Quote
Amazing. And here we are on OS X.. Still no hardware acceleration on 1.4.2. Still no 1.5. Still so many bugs introduced with each update.


There is no 1.5 on any other platform either.  If you are counting Betas, then there IS a Java 5 beta available for OS X.

Quote
Maybe sun should be in charge of java for OS X as it's practically useless for games in java, unless you write an OpenGL 2D layer, which shouldn't be neccesary.


It has actually improved significantly. given that Apple has more limited resources to do the port than Sun they have had to make some difficult decisions.  They are implementing much of the graphics in 1.4 on the Core Graphics APIs, which are also not hardware accelerated.  They are (rightly IMHO) working to accelerate their core APIs so that everything benefits.

Java 5 will have the OpenGL pipeline which should work nicely (or be a pain?) with OS X as the Quartz rendering technology is OpenGL based as well.

I don't mean to apologize for Apple... they are behind.  But they know it and they are working on it at least.

As far as the OpenGL layer - you don't have to write it - JOGL is already done for you.  It is the API that is most suitable for games (2D or 3D) that need high performance graphics.  Use it.

Offline ozak

Junior Member




Java demon has no respect for bad code!!!


« Reply #75 - Posted 2004-08-13 10:15:57 »

You are right. I meant no disrespect. It's good that java has such great java support. It's just sad to have such poor performance on OS X, but that will soon change with 1.5 Smiley

With regards to jogl it's too much work to change my engine to use it, but thanks for the heads up.

I do hope that java 1.5 will work on previous versions on OS X and not just Tiger... Smiley

Want to do multiplayer? Why not try my free Socky socket server?
It's scriptable through JavaScript!
Check it out at http://www.furi.dk/socky
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #76 - Posted 2004-08-16 02:37:52 »

Quote
I do hope that java 1.5 will work on previous versions on OS X and not just Tiger... Smiley


Sadly, I think that will be highly unlikely.  Apple doesn't tend to develop for  anything but their latest OS.  So since Tiger the OS is due out around the same time that Tiger i.e. Java 5.... and the current preview already is for the Tiger OS only... well it wouldn't follow Apple's previous pattern.

Offline dranonymous

Junior Member




Hoping to become a Java Titan someday!


« Reply #77 - Posted 2004-08-16 19:13:48 »

I did some poking around with the openGL pipeline and discovered the size of your images make a huge deal.  I believe its tied to the fact that they need to be in powers of 2, if not you see a big performance hit.

Here is a link to a small thread at JavaRanch which tried to get some info on the openGL pipeline -

[link=http://saloon.javaranch.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=009180]JR Link[/link]

There are some performance numbers on the thread.

Regards,
Dr. A>
Online princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 378
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #78 - Posted 2004-08-17 07:15:11 »

I hope they're taking advantage of the extensions allowing non-power-of-two textures.

And I hope they're querying the max texture sizes too. 256x256 hasn't been the limit since the heady days of the Voodoo cards.

Cas Smiley


Offline ozak

Junior Member




Java demon has no respect for bad code!!!


« Reply #79 - Posted 2004-08-20 13:04:24 »

Quote

Sadly, I think that will be highly unlikely.  Apple doesn't tend to develop for  anything but their latest OS.  So since Tiger the OS is due out around the same time that Tiger i.e. Java 5.... and the current preview already is for the Tiger OS only... well it wouldn't follow Apple's previous pattern.


Oh well. PC with Windoze for me that is. Sad...

Want to do multiplayer? Why not try my free Socky socket server?
It's scriptable through JavaScript!
Check it out at http://www.furi.dk/socky
Offline ozak

Junior Member




Java demon has no respect for bad code!!!


« Reply #80 - Posted 2004-08-20 17:41:09 »

Nah. We all know I'll probably upgrade to Tiger Smiley

Want to do multiplayer? Why not try my free Socky socket server?
It's scriptable through JavaScript!
Check it out at http://www.furi.dk/socky
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