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  RPG Maker  (Read 3231 times)
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Offline krypto

Junior Duke




while(true) { self.caffeinate (); }


« Posted 2004-03-26 12:13:04 »

I've been working on my RPG and realize I like working on the editor just as much as the GAME so I'm considering making an RPG maker. I have most of the elements I need support for mapped out but I need to get more Ideas. A capable editor should allow for specifying what exactly. .. other than tilemaps, sprites, and items.

General Game Properties
  • Splash Screen
    Game Over ?
    In Game Menus?
    Scripting
    Allow for cut scenes



 
Weapons/ ARMOUR

Magic System

Portal Editing

Grouping
  • allow mechanism to define groups of npcs that travel in close proximaty.
    This would be great for gangs of enemies. must define one npc that is the leader, all others follow him.
    if the leader dies, the group disbands.?


Enemy Attributes
  • magic
    specials
    speed


Event Editing
Gui to Create/ Edit events

Enable Multi-Level Support
The Editor should have a Level-Centric view allowing to have many levels open at once.


Could everyone expand on this. What is essential for an RPG editor? what would be nice to have ?
Please chime in Grin

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Offline digitprop

Junior Duke





« Reply #1 - Posted 2004-03-26 12:39:38 »

Include some means to edit behaviour of NPCs. For example, some NPCs might do repetitive chores (like serving in an inn), which can be defined in a point+click interface.

For more complex behaviours, you could define an easy API interface, and in the editor wire NPCs to Java classes which implement the interface.

Provide predefined algorithms to plug into, such as pathfinding to fixed / moving targets.


Some properties of tiles (if it's tile-based) should be easy to set with one mouse click, preferentially for many tiles at once. This includes whether a tile can be walked on, shot over, seen across, swum across, flown over... you get the picture.


It would be nice to have predefined patches of tiles (e.g. 16x16 tiles) which can be 'painted' into the map.


Define sets of tiles for walls etc, such that each set contains each possible configuration (north wall, north east wall, east wall, etc...). Then let the user 'draw walls' with a 'walls brush', i.e. by dragging the mouse. The editor figures out automagically which kind of wall tile to put at each map position,  depending on the course of the mouse.


Dialog system: Make it easy to navigate through dialog trees, and to see dependencies. The details of this depends strongly on your dialog system.


Make it easy to switch between editing and game play testing.


In general, the easier it is to create content quickly, the more acceptance will such an editor find and the more finished game projects will result.

M. Fischer . www.digitprop.com
Offline krypto

Junior Duke




while(true) { self.caffeinate (); }


« Reply #2 - Posted 2004-03-26 13:53:02 »

Quote
Include some means to edit behaviour of NPCs. For example, some NPCs might do repetitive chores (like serving in an inn), which can be defined in a point+click interface.
already have gui element to set the path  algorithm/behavior just need to add the target(currently the default target is the player)
Quote

For more complex behaviours, you could define an easy API interface, and in the editor wire NPCs to Java classes which implement the interface.


could you be more specific

Quote

Some properties of tiles (if it's tile-based) should be easy to set with one mouse click, preferentially for many tiles at once. This includes whether a tile can be walked on, shot over, seen across, swum across, flown over... you get the picture.


I currently have "Collision tiles" and based on the value of the tile jugde if something is walkable ect. Althought this is more limited than what you mention. I was afraid your approach would be to much overhead (i have 5 layers per level) one level is 12000 tiles.

Quote

It would be nice to have predefined patches of tiles (e.g. 16x16 tiles) which can be 'painted' into the map.


Define sets of tiles for walls etc, such that each set contains each possible configuration (north wall, north east wall, east wall, etc...). Then let the user 'draw walls' with a 'walls brush', i.e. by dragging the mouse. The editor figures out automagically which kind of wall tile to put at each map position,  depending on the course of the mouse.


I like the brush idea.

Quote

Dialog system: Make it easy to navigate through dialog trees, and to see dependencies. The details of this depends strongly on your dialog system.


My current Dialog system is xml base "Thanks KEvin Glass" so I could probably do that fairly easy.


Quote

Make it easy to switch between editing and game play testing.


In general, the easier it is to create content quickly, the more acceptance will such an editor find and the more finished game projects will result.


I have plans for this already

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Offline krypto

Junior Duke




while(true) { self.caffeinate (); }


« Reply #3 - Posted 2004-03-27 08:02:46 »

Has anyone ever seen this editor/game:

http://www.cs.pitt.edu/~alandale/dmjava/index.html

I thought people could give me their impression of the layout.

Thanks Smiley

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Online kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 188
Projects: 24
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #4 - Posted 2004-03-27 08:14:03 »

I like how clean it is, but I'm thinking its pretty much because the game is so defined and simple. DM isn't a great example for a generic adventuring system (although is still a fantastic game).

Let me know how you go with this stuff, I'd be interested in incorporating the ideas into Mini Adventure.

Kev

Offline digitprop

Junior Duke





« Reply #5 - Posted 2004-03-27 15:25:50 »

Quote

could you be more specific

What I mean is this: The interface defines the interaction between the behaviour of an NPC and the game. For example, the interface would include things like

  • setGameWorld(GameWorld): Gives the behaviour a handle to the game world definition, so that the behaviour can query things like map details, resources, where everyone is located, etc.
  • isAttackedBy(NPC npc): Take action when being attacked by other NPCs or by the player
  • getReply(String playerSays): Creates a textual reply to something the player says to the NPC (depends strongly on the dialog system)
  • move(): Give the NPC the opportunity to make a move
  • ...etc...

Now, say class LunaticBehaviour implements this interface. It will provide meaningful implementations for each of the methods. For example, in the method move(), it may randomly move the NPC to one of the adjacent tiles. The behaviour can be encapsuled in a single behavioural class. In the editor, you simply connect a class to an NPC, for example in an editable combo box. The box contains a list of predefined behaviour classes, but the user can add new classes simply by entering their qualified class name.

Later in the game, the appropriate class is loaded by Class.forName(). The user only needs to make sure that the class is in the classpath.

In this way it will be easy to add new behavioural classes without recompiling, having the API of the game and the compiled game and editor classes.

Quote

I currently have "Collision tiles" and based on the value of the tile jugde if something is walkable ect. Althought this is more limited than what you mention. I was afraid your approach would be to much overhead (i have 5 layers per level) one level is 12000 tiles.

I would store the various properties in a bit array, which is not much more overhead than a simple walkability flag. However, I think more than just walkability is important to enable complex interactions.

M. Fischer . www.digitprop.com
Offline krypto

Junior Duke




while(true) { self.caffeinate (); }


« Reply #6 - Posted 2004-03-29 07:50:56 »

Thanks for the input digiprop. I'm taknig it all in. Think I will definitly use the bit flag idea. Hey Kev ... your off in RPG land. What do you think would be useful in an rpg maker/Editor ?

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Offline MChester

Junior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2004-03-29 08:50:56 »

Something I allways miss in RPGs is proper behaviour of NPCs.


It would be really cool if:
You were able to define groups of enemies that will come to each others aid if one of them is attacked.

NPCs had some morale stat. So that when you start butchering their friend they might panic and run away or maybe if cornered, surrender or go berserk.

I know this is not only and editor issue, the engine ofcource has to support it :-)
Online kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 188
Projects: 24
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #8 - Posted 2004-03-29 08:53:12 »

Bare in mind I'm hoping to develop a partially persistant world so some of my ideas might be a bit odd if you're going for this fire and forget stuff.

I guess the most important thing to me atm seems to be Integeration, followed by Integration Smiley

In the past I've developed systems with one tool for this, one tool for that.. and quickly you end up with N tools none of which work very well. For MA I'm going to try and limit myself to 2 maybe 3 editors.

1) Resource editor, allowed you to define what sprites are and where they come from. Presumably adding support for sound effects and music eventually. Currently this is my "Tile Tool" (http://www.newdawnsoftware.com/miniad/shots/290204_3.gif)

2) World Editor, this is where I've done most of my work so far. Allows initially just the placing of the world tiles and definition of "blocking" or "not blocking". Goes on to support:
    a) NPC Definition (including likes/dislikes) and Placement
    b) Activity Zone definition (read doors, signs etc..)
    c) NPC Scripting (timed way point movement)
    d) MOB (bad buy) spawning areas (related to activity zones). Item drops.
    e) Links to other section of map.
     f) Player property requirements, allows for instance, doors only to be open if a player has done a particular feat.

Currently this is my world editor (http://www.newdawnsoftware.com/miniad/shots/290204_2.gif)

3) Adventure designer (this one is optional, might well be built into number 2), Allows definition of
     a) NPC Conversation
     b) Scripted/Triggered Events
     c) Scaleable MOB spawns
     d) Property gets/sets (see f above)

Not really thought this one out much yet.

Hopefully this is of some help (if not, it helped me anyway Smiley), apologies for the epic and the potential for talking out one's arse.

EDIT: Oops, forgot items and inventory. I guess that goes in the resource editor, references from the NPC and maps.

Kev

Offline krypto

Junior Duke




while(true) { self.caffeinate (); }


« Reply #9 - Posted 2004-03-29 13:17:37 »

Quote

1) Resource editor, allowed you to define what sprites are and where they come from. Presumably adding support for sound effects and music eventually. Currently this is my "Tile Tool" (http://www.newdawnsoftware.com/miniad/shots/290204_3.gif)
I plan on this already,Is this similar to digiprops brush idea ? I mean, once I define a tree as these 8 tiles, the editor should have that brush available for eternity.

Quote

2) World Editor, this is where I've done most of my work so far. Allows initially just the placing of the world tiles and definition of "blocking" or "not blocking". Goes on to support:
    a) NPC Definition (including likes/dislikes) and Placement
    b) Activity Zone definition (read doors, signs etc..)
    c) NPC Scripting (timed way point movement)
    d) MOB (bad buy) spawning areas (related to activity zones). Item drops.
    e) Links to other section of map.
     f) Player property requirements, allows for instance, doors only to be open if a player has done a particular feat.


This is kind of what I have/am Planning although I like the NPC scripting idea.
Could the door/task idea be accomplished with a variation of my dialog.. Like so:

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<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<!--
    Document   : dialogs.xml
    Created on : July 21, 2003, 7:37 AM
    Author     : Krypto
    Description:
        Purpose of the document follows.
-->
<Conversation NPC="door1">
<Statement id="0">
  <Text>Legends Hall: Members Only!!!</Text>
  <Reply Text="Enter">
    <GotoStatement target="1"/>
  </Reply>
  <Reply Text="I need food!">
    <GotoStatement target="2"/>
  </Reply>
  <Reply Text="Leave">
    <GotoStatement target="3"/>
  </Reply>
</Statement>
<Statement id="1">
<Text>May I see your membership Card</Text>
  <Reply Text="Sure">
    <HasObject name="membersCard>
        <GotoStatement target="
2"/>
    </HasObject>
    <DoesntHasObject>
        <Text> I said Members only.</Text>
        <EndConvo/>
    </DoesntHasObject>
    <GotoStatement target="
0"/>
  </Reply>
</Statement>
<Statement id="
2">
  <Text>Welcome to The Hall</Text>
  <EnterRoom name="
legends Hall">
</Statement>
<Statement id="
3">
  <Text>Farewell then, do feel free to drop bye again!</Text>
  <Reply Text="
">
    <EndConvo/>
    <GotoStatement target="
0"/>
  </Reply>
</Statement>
</Conversation>


I hope i'm not streching too far here, but Events and Dialog seem to be very similar.

Quote


3) Adventure designer (this one is optional, might well be built into number 2), Allows definition of
     a) NPC Conversation
     b) Scripted/Triggered Events
     c) Scaleable MOB spawns
     d) Property gets/sets (see f above)

Not really thought this one out much yet.

Hopefully this is of some help (if not, it helped me anyway Smiley), apologies for the epic and the potential for talking out one's arse.

EDIT: Oops, forgot items and inventory. I guess that goes in the resource editor, references from the NPC and maps.

Kev


I will have my Event / Dialog editor be a seperate tool(but allow launching from the main tool.

Thanks for all your input. I really respect your thinking and you are a great asset to the community. Feel free to forward on any additional ideas. And all others feel free to do the same.
Grin

JRPG Users -  General Users Site
JRPG Developers -  The JRPG Project's Home
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline NexusOne

Junior Duke




Java games rock!


« Reply #10 - Posted 2004-04-14 18:47:57 »

i dont know... all the fun in making an rpg is, well, making the rpg :-D
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