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  Java3D announcement  (Read 2890 times)
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Offline Herkules

Senior Devvie




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Posted 2004-03-18 04:41:13 »

I wonder why Sun makes this announcement only on the list, so it is my duty as a moderator to replicate it here (see also: William Denniss' post
):

Quote
From:  Doug Twilleager <Doug.Twilleager@SUN.COM>
Reply-To:  Discussion list for Java 3D API <JAVA3D-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM>
To:  JAVA3D-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
Subject:  [JAVA3D] ANNOUNCEMENT: Java 3D plans
Date:  Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:28:28 -0800  

We take this opportunity to announce that Sun is renewing its
commitment to Java 3D.  The highlights of this announcement are:

   .   Sun is in the process of making the source code for Java 3D
  available through a public source license in the very near
  future.

   .   Sun will work with the Java 3D community, via the Java
  Community Process (JCP), to actively evolve the API going
  forward.

--------------------

The renewed emphasis on Java 3D complements Sun's increased efforts
in the desktop space and the recent release of the Java Desktop System
(JDS).  More information will be forthcoming, but here are a few
details concerning our plans.

   .   Sun is right now working on making the source code for Java 3D
  available through a public source license.  This will be done
  via a java.net project, which will include a developer's web
  site and CVS repository.  This will allow developers to
  download the Java 3D source code, and to contribute bug fixes
  and utilities.  The time frame for this release is before
  JavaOne 2004.

   .   We will be forming an expert group under the JCP process to
  define and implement the next version(s) of the Java 3D API.
  Our current thinking is that we want to work with the expert
  group to create a 1.4 version of the Java 3D API that will add
  programmable shaders, and possibly other critical features, if
  they can be done without architectural changes to the
  implementation.  We hope to get this release out relatively
  quickly.

   .   We also want the expert group to help define the next major
  revision (1.5? 2.0?) to the Java 3D API, which could involve
  more widespread changes to the API.

We look forward to working with the Java 3D community to move the
API forward.

Doug Twilleager
Sun Microsystems

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline pepe

Junior Devvie




Nothing unreal exists


« Reply #1 - Posted 2004-03-18 05:15:53 »

 Cheesy Cheesy
Was about to start looking seriously at Xith.....
Well, this is a good news, if not a news at all.

Home page: http://frederic.barachant.com
------------------------------------------------------
GoSub: java2D gamechmark http://frederic.barachant.com/GoSub/GoSub.jnlp
Offline Bombadil

Senior Devvie





« Reply #2 - Posted 2004-03-18 05:25:22 »

What will be the used low level 3d API? JOGL? JOAL?
I ask because on what platforms will future versions of Java3d run? Just on Win and Mac, like now? That would suck.
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Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Herkules

Senior Devvie




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #3 - Posted 2004-03-18 05:41:43 »

I suppose, for Java3D is older than JOGL and can run on DX as well, it provides its own, custom low-level access layer.

It currently runs on Win, Linux, Mac, Solaris and Irix(?).

What do you miss? Consoles?

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline Bombadil

Senior Devvie





« Reply #4 - Posted 2004-03-18 06:26:55 »

Quote
I suppose, for Java3D is older than JOGL and can run on DX as well, it provides its own, custom low-level access layer.

It currently runs on Win, Linux, Mac, Solaris and Irix(?).

What do you miss? Consoles?

:-)  Consoles would be nice, yes.

I've been under the impression that Java3D would mainly run on Win32 (you can download it from SUN for Win32 and Solaris) and since some time on MacOS.
Does J3D run stable and in its complete form on Linux, too (for example) ?
Offline Herkules

Senior Devvie




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2004-03-18 06:52:26 »

Sure! FlyingGuns at least works on all platforms mentioned.

Consoles are another thing. But for now theres no way for JAVA at all to go to consoles, so theres no need to bother about the 3D API. AFAIK theres not even a OpenGL for consoles.

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline Bombadil

Senior Devvie





« Reply #6 - Posted 2004-03-18 07:06:58 »

Quote
Sure! FlyingGuns at least works on all platforms mentioned.

Good news. Thanks for the info. Furthermore it's an info from the real world, compared to nice readme files which don't hold water (there are some Java versions for Linux which just include half of Java, for example).

Quote
Consoles are another thing. But for now theres no way for JAVA at all to go to consoles, so theres no need to bother about the 3D API.

Yes, not for the old console generation. Hopefully for the new one. But that's another topic we could discuss in other thread(s).

Quote
AFAIK theres not even a OpenGL for consoles.

Gamecube has got a slightly cut-down version of OpenGL, and also PS2 I think, but indeed, another topic.
Offline Breakfast

Senior Devvie




for great justice!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2004-03-18 09:22:56 »

* note to self: remember to read at least the titles of the java3d-interest messages before just marking them as read...
Offline Herkules

Senior Devvie




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #8 - Posted 2004-03-18 09:30:38 »

Grin

'ANNOUNCEMENT' + 'Twilleager' immediately caught my eye and kept my finger away from the 'delete' button Smiley

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #9 - Posted 2004-03-18 12:38:08 »

Quote
Consoles are another thing. But for now theres no way for JAVA at all to go to consoles, so theres no need to bother about the 3D API. AFAIK theres not even a OpenGL for consoles.


I think this was part of the reason for 1) not implementing Java 3D on top of an OpenGL binding, and 2) Providing two implementations on Windows, D3D and OGL, thus providing an example of how Java 3D is not dependent on a specific 3D API.  Theoretically this should make it easier to port to console that don't have a 'standard' 3D API.
I really hope to hear good new about Java in the console market this year.  With the trend to make consoles internet enabled I think the adoption of Java would be great for them... but I know nothing about the console market Smiley.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #10 - Posted 2004-03-18 20:38:42 »

Quote
 Cheesy Cheesy
Was about to start looking seriously at Xith.....
Well, this is a good news, if not a news at all.


Don't hold your breath... Wink

probably best to review both if you are starting a new project.

Will.

Offline uj

Junior Devvie





« Reply #11 - Posted 2004-03-19 05:21:25 »

Quote
It currently runs on Win, Linux, Mac, Solaris and Irix(?).

What do you miss? Consoles?


Why isn't Java3D abundant? It's such a great idea. By now it should have been available (in some form) on all Java supported platforms for both Swing and SWT. But it isn't. There must have been something seriously wrong with Sun's strategy and I hope it will change now.
Offline pepe

Junior Devvie




Nothing unreal exists


« Reply #12 - Posted 2004-03-20 06:32:04 »

Quote


Don't hold your breath... Wink

probably best to review both if you are starting a new project.

Will.

i've been reviewing Xith for a long time, if not the beginning. I've been downloading and reveiwing sources and docs very often and tested each and every demos. Thus, i think i have quite a good vision of both, but J3d will still have my preferences. i am confident J3D will evolve to the level of Xith, feature talking.

Home page: http://frederic.barachant.com
------------------------------------------------------
GoSub: java2D gamechmark http://frederic.barachant.com/GoSub/GoSub.jnlp
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #13 - Posted 2004-03-22 09:53:29 »

Quote

i am confident J3D will evolve to the level of Xith, feature talking.


why wait in hope?

Will.


Offline pepe

Junior Devvie




Nothing unreal exists


« Reply #14 - Posted 2004-03-22 17:28:14 »

I do not wait. there are so many things in my project and stuff that don't involve rendering that i can do other things while things get clearer.  3d rendering is actually an abstract layer of it, and i can make it run without having images, or showing them with whatever i feel good enough to do so.
while the terminal result will be 3D images displayed on many screens, i can still live without images.
Java3d already does most of what i need. My preoccupation was the stop in production, and the fact that sources were not there to let me continue alone. My biggest problem is now 'on the way to be' solved.

Home page: http://frederic.barachant.com
------------------------------------------------------
GoSub: java2D gamechmark http://frederic.barachant.com/GoSub/GoSub.jnlp
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #15 - Posted 2004-03-22 23:33:27 »

It it already does what you need, fair enough.  Hope you solve your problem Smiley

Cheers,

Will.

Offline JavaGuy

Innocent Bystander




Polexis - Transforming data into knowledge


« Reply #16 - Posted 2004-05-24 19:18:22 »

Quote


Why isn't Java3D abundant? It's such a great idea. By now it should have been available (in some form) on all Java supported platforms for both Swing and SWT. But it isn't. There must have been something seriously wrong with Sun's strategy and I hope it will change now.


I don't think there is necessarily anything "wrong" with Sun's strategy regarding Java 3D.  They provided a standardized object oriented abstraction for performing 3D.  

In practice, industry has been more concerned with developing state-of-the-art fast solutions to 3D problems, taking advantage of the latest and greatest video card enhancements.  In such a business environment, it doesn't make sense to develop to a standardized API.

With the implementation of JSR 231, and Sun once again behind Java 3D, I hope we will begin to see a shift in development behavior.  For cutting edge games, no doubt they will continue to develop directly against OpenGL.  However, for more forward thinking applications, especially those designed for the business and government sectors, Java 3D is a preferable solution.  When issues such as maintenance, migration, and platform independence are of importance to your marketplace, you need a solution like that provided by Java 3D.
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