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  Gosh, it's quiet in here  (Read 4238 times)
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Offline dime26

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Medals: 60
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Should traffic wardens be armed?


« Reply #60 - Posted 2017-11-07 14:05:56 »

I am happy to test the migration script.

Edit * https://meta.discourse.org/t/has-anyone-actually-migrated-from-smf-to-discourse-successfully/53096/8

Seems migrating to phpbb first night be the best option
Offline KevinWorkman

« JGO Plugged Duke »


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« Reply #61 - Posted 2017-11-08 03:43:15 »

how would one go about hosting a discourse instance?

It's pretty simple. You just follow the steps here: https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/master/docs/INSTALL.md

I've setup Discourse a few times, and I'd be happy to do it again if people would be interested in that option.

The hardest part would be importing the data, but as mentioned above there are ways to do that.

Or we could go with the dead simple option of moth-balling the current site (keeping it in read-only mode so we don't lose old threads) and starting fresh with a Discourse forum at a new URL. We could provide links between the old and new forums, but they'd basically be two separate things.

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Offline abcdef
« Reply #62 - Posted 2017-11-08 12:45:45 »

KevinWorkman, the question was more about which machine to install on rather than how to do it
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Offline cygnus
« Reply #63 - Posted 2017-11-08 20:37:09 »

I'm all for both Discourse and Discord. One provides a longer term, more formal place to discuss whatever, and Discord is great for more personal stuff. Plus, Discord is incredibly easy to set up and many people have it.

Howerver, I'm worried that JGO will die if we take the risk of moving - it's times like that when a forums users are most vulnerable to forgetting about it. As was mentioned above, a blank forum is quite discouraging to new users. When I came here (less than a year ago), the sense of community was obvious, and it was that that made me stay (even if I'm not incredibly active). As a 17 year old, the knowledge and experience that is on here is invaluable, because I have no way to get the help I need to build my game anywhere else. If we don't have such an obvious and interesting group that entices people to join I'm afraid that even the benefits of a new and better design will be completely gone. Also, this is probably just me having skipped over previous explanations, but why can't we just change the site as it stands?

(I have to say princec saying "like electrons in the wind" was the coolest metaphor I've heard in a while!)
Offline EliwoodL

Junior Devvie


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« Reply #64 - Posted 2017-11-09 03:46:39 »

I'm not a particularly notable member here on JGO, I dabbled in a few bits here and there, but my accomplishments amount to getting basic 3D rendering running on a self-coded engine.

But that being said, I'd just like to chip in my two cents; whatever is decided here, I will certainly be there to keep it from complete emptiness.  I could even help develop some material for a potential new site to help keep new members around.  Y'know, tutorials and the like.

I have fond memories of this site, and the people on it - you're all good folks.
Offline KevinWorkman

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« Reply #65 - Posted 2017-11-09 04:05:35 »

KevinWorkman, the question was more about which machine to install on rather than how to do it

That question is answered in the link I posted. Basic hosting on Digital Ocean costs 10 bucks per month.

I'm working on putting together a dumb Discourse instance. Most of that time has been waiting for DNS changes to propagate. :p

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Offline Riven
Administrator

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Hand over your head.


« Reply #66 - Posted 2017-11-10 09:29:40 »

Just chiming in here: sharing a database-dump with you, to attempt building a next-gen frontend, would not imply hosting the final product elsewhere.

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Offline dime26

JGO Ninja


Medals: 60
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Should traffic wardens be armed?


« Reply #67 - Posted 2017-11-10 15:11:09 »

Another option could be to apply a new template to the site, to give it a fresh look?

Probably loads available out there:

http://demo.smftricks.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=d5cc97995310c3e5930e334009807048&theme=97

http://demo.smftricks.com/index.php?theme=53
Offline zngga
« Reply #68 - Posted 2017-11-10 15:46:57 »

I don't think it is so much an issue of theme, SMF is kinda garbage.

At the end of the day a Forum is about the content. A good platform with a good theme are both desirable things, but a pretty looking ghost town is just that. Updating the site to be reasonable on mobile would help a lot I think. But looks are not going to encourage content creation. The 'Minecraft craze' is dying down or gone, so Java certainly has lost some appeal for game creation, there are a lot of JVM languages that are getting attention, like Kotlin. Maybe the Forum could draw more attention as JVM-Gaming.org  persecutioncomplex

My code never has bugs... it just develops unexpected features!
Offline philfrei
« Reply #69 - Posted 2017-11-10 19:43:31 »

Maybe the Forum could draw more attention as JVM-Gaming.org  persecutioncomplex

That is an interesting idea. From the Kotlin thread, I was afraid we were going to provoke a new kotlin-gaming.org and it would be yet another brain drain from java-gaming.org.

A jvm-gaming does appeal to me, as it is inclusive. The concept of jvm gaming can also exist under the title or name Java-Gaming, can't it?

Yes the minecraft surge has probably peaked, but Java is still taught in high schools and colleges all over this country, and remains #1 on Tioga. This should remain a strong source for new members, if we are set up to welcome them.

Then, part of the process could be that many might go from first making a "pure" Java game to advance to something like Kotlin or libjdx. It would be great to have that path made clear and hassle-free/harassment-free. In that sort of structure, I see my role as someone more focused on the new-comers as well as on audio tools. But I'm happy to see folks grow into libgdx or Kotlin or whatever.

As far as "drawing attention," isn't the main way that people find us come from our existing forum content that is pertinent to searches being made? The content has to remain, doesn't it, for the forum to be visible, doesn't it?

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Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline FabulousFellini
« Reply #70 - Posted 2017-11-10 23:41:40 »

-quote from philfri
"Then, part of the process could be that many might go from first making a "pure" Java game to advance to something like Kotlin or libjdx. It would be great to have that path made clear and hassle-free/harassment-free. In that sort of structure, I see my role as someone more focused on the new-comers as well as on audio tools. But I'm happy to see folks grow into libgdx or Kotlin or whatever."


I like that you said that because a lot of people don't think that way.  My game is pure java, and I learned a crap load by having to figure out how to do stuff like animation, as opposed to something like an animate function that just does it for you.  I know that there is probably a lot wrong with the code and how I went about doing things, but I had to make stuff work and figured it out.  I think everyone should start like that to be honest.   With that said, I'm definitely using LibGDX for my next game.

Edit - also, Philfri you know the trouble I had with getting java sound to work.  It's that type of stuff that really makes you learn how and why to use a specific library.

-FabulousFellini
www.fabulousfellini.com
Offline NegativeZero

JGO Kernel


Medals: 329
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Zero but not.


« Reply #71 - Posted 2017-11-11 00:34:43 »

It might be worth noting that a few months ago we moved away from the JGO IRC and now instead have a mildly active Discord server with ~40 people. If anyone wants to join, here's a link:

https://discord.gg/VSyAXCB

Offline KevinWorkman

« JGO Plugged Duke »


Medals: 270
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« Reply #72 - Posted 2017-11-11 03:18:35 »

Just chiming in here: sharing a database-dump with you, to attempt building a next-gen frontend, would not imply hosting the final product elsewhere.

Agreed. I don't really have any interest in being an admin (or even a moderator) or in dealing with hosting. My goal is to get a dumb Discourse instance up and running so that we can test stuff out. If we succeed, I'll very happily hand everything back to you and any moderators you choose to add.

Current status: waiting for Mailgun to stop thinking I'm a spammer, because apparently the test domain I registered looks suspicious.

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Offline zngga
« Reply #73 - Posted 2017-11-11 16:34:27 »

It might be worth noting that a few months ago we moved away from the JGO IRC and now instead have a mildly active Discord server with ~40 people. If anyone wants to join, here's a link:

https://discord.gg/VSyAXCB

How am I just hearing about this!!!!! I have been quietly awaiting a Discord server for here for some time now!

Edit :: Is there a way to have a feed on the Forum, kinda like the shout boxes of old, linked to #general with Discord?

My code never has bugs... it just develops unexpected features!
Offline Riven
Administrator

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 1324
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Hand over your head.


« Reply #74 - Posted 2017-11-11 18:14:26 »

I have cleaned up a database-dump, removing privacy sensitive information, like ip-addresses, locations, ages, emailaddresses, secret-question/secret-answer pairs for login-recovery, etc, etc. I also subtly mangled the messages, without structurally changing the posts, as to simply prevent a fork based on this shared dump. I'll do a few more sanity checks, and will make the dump available shortly.

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Offline KevinWorkman

« JGO Plugged Duke »


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« Reply #75 - Posted 2017-11-12 04:18:07 »

I have a dumb Discourse instance setup here: http://java-gaming.online/

Feel free to poke it, register, post, whatever. It's pretty much just the default Discourse setup, without any customization. That can come later if this pans out.

I think the next steps are:

Do we want to port the database?

I personally like the "fresh start" option, but it's at least worth trying. This might require direct access, not an obfuscated dump. If so, Riven I'm happy to give you access.

See here and here for instructions.

Do people actually want to use a new site?

I guess time will tell.

From here, if anybody wants to be involved in porting the site or invigorating a new site, here's your chance. My plan is to see how this plays out and then hand the reigns back over to Riven if it works out.

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Offline Riven
Administrator

« JGO Overlord »


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Hand over your head.


« Reply #76 - Posted 2017-11-12 16:47:43 »

Do we want to port the database?

I personally like the "fresh start" option, but it's at least worth trying. This might require direct access, not an obfuscated dump.

Surely a few swapped words won't put you off? Smiley

Here's the dump, enjoy Smiley (and good luck!)

http://java-gaming.org/jgo-dump-20171116-shared.zip

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Offline KevinWorkman

« JGO Plugged Duke »


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« Reply #77 - Posted 2017-11-12 17:16:16 »

Surely a few swapped words won't put you off? Smiley

Not me. I just don't know what all is required for the port. I guess we can see if it works with the public dump, and if it does, then you can do it with the real thing if you want.

Here's the dump, enjoy Smiley (and good luck!)

http://java-gaming.org/jgo-dump-20171111-shared.zip

Thanks!

I'll try to get to this today. I'll be heading out of town later in the week so hopefully I can make some progress before then.

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Offline KevinWorkman

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« Reply #78 - Posted 2017-11-14 02:16:44 »

I've hit a snag: apparently the directions require a local Discourse development environemtn, which means you can't do it directly in Docker. I don't really feel like spending much more time on this, so if somebody wants to take over, we basically have two options:

Option one: Set up a local Discourse development environment and follow the steps in the link above.

Option two: Hack the script and/or Docker options so the script works inside Docker. This is apparently possible, but I don't know enough about Ruby to do it myself.

I still think that just starting over and archiving the existing forum is the way to go. But if any of the folks who said they want to be involved want to try the above options for archiving, now's your chance.

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Offline SHC
« Reply #79 - Posted 2017-11-14 09:03:01 »

I got the dump imported into MySQL. Am now trying to get it into Flarum.


Offline SHC
« Reply #80 - Posted 2017-11-14 16:04:10 »

After spending two hours to understand the tables and relations, wrote a script to migrate the categories and boards. The current output is like this:



The script also maintains the order of the categories and the boards inside them.

Offline philfrei
« Reply #81 - Posted 2017-11-14 17:46:07 »

Quote
I got the dump imported into MySQL.

That was my thinking when I started inspecting the data, to load as many tables as possible into MySQL and go from there. The tools I have for inspection are not so hot: e.g., Notepad/Wordpad! Advice on a better way to inspect the dump would be appreciated.

Quote
After spending two hours to understand the tables and relations, wrote a script to migrate the categories and boards. The current output is like this:

Is this the view from within Flarum? (Is there a consensus that Flarum is a good target? Or a good intermediate step to something else?)

Looks good! I can see that the GUI should work well on small display screens.

The only thing I'm wondering about is the sub-categories at the bottom and how they relate to larger blocks.

I did peruse the dump file a bit, but was slow on the trigger to download MySQL, and haven't downloaded Flarum yet either. I'll do so, if we are going in this direction.

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Offline SHC
« Reply #82 - Posted 2017-11-15 02:42:21 »

That was my thinking when I started inspecting the data, to load as many tables as possible into MySQL and go from there. The tools I have for inspection are not so hot: e.g., Notepad/Wordpad! Advice on a better way to inspect the dump would be appreciated.

For this large data, phpMyAdmin and other web based tools will trigger a post error, you need to work from the command line. After you create the database, do this from cmd:

1  
2  
3  
4  
$ mysql -uuname -p
Enter password: *****
mysql> use dbname
mysql> source path/to/dumpFile.sql

That will do the trick of importing. It took me 30 seconds for that to complete.

Offline KevinWorkman

« JGO Plugged Duke »


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« Reply #83 - Posted 2017-11-15 16:29:22 »

After spending two hours to understand the tables and relations, wrote a script to migrate the categories and boards. The current output is like this:

This is really awesome. Congratulations. What do you see as the next steps?

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Offline SHC
« Reply #84 - Posted 2017-11-15 16:29:40 »

Hey @Riven, I started migrating the users and found that there are a ton of users who have activated the accounts but haven't logged in even once. The lastLogin field for some is set to 0. Should I migrate them too? Or can I optimize the script to remove them?

Offline SHC
« Reply #85 - Posted 2017-11-15 16:35:01 »

This is really awesome. Congratulations. What do you see as the next steps?

First step is to port the users. Once that is done, I could look into porting the meta data, like the profile picture etc., Right now however profile pictures cannot be ported because it appears to me that Flarum caches them in other locations, and I cannot access the server of JGO to download the images.

After this is done, I can continue to port the posts. The good thing about Flarum is that it supports posts in both BBCode and also Markdown. However, I think I have to modify them a bit.

Offline SHC
« Reply #86 - Posted 2017-11-15 16:55:34 »

Porting of users is done, but however they are created with no password, and hence they cannot log in. They are required to click on forget password link and create new password for the accounts. Members visible in the admin panel:



And here is a ported user:



Profile pictures are a bit off, but I don't think I can fix that. Still had to search where Flarum stores them. And of course, mods and groups aren't ported yet.

Offline Riven
Administrator

« JGO Overlord »


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Hand over your head.


« Reply #87 - Posted 2017-11-15 22:34:27 »

Great progress dudes!


Hey @Riven, I started migrating the users and found that there are a ton of users who have activated the accounts but haven't logged in even once. The lastLogin field for some is set to 0. Should I migrate them too? Or can I optimize the script to remove them?
Once you get 10% of data pumped over, it's typically a breeze to do the remaining 90%, especially on such a simple data-model.

So by all means, feel free to reduce your dataset, if it makes porting easier/speedier. In the final stages of the migration you would take the whole dataset.

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Offline Riven
Administrator

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 1324
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #88 - Posted 2017-11-15 22:37:40 »

Porting of users is done, but however they are created with no password, and hence they cannot log in. They are required to click on forget password link and create new password for the accounts.
Ofcourse this is one of the first snags of a data-migration: how do we get application X to understand the password-encryption (salted-hash) from application Y. Typically this involves a bit of custom code in the new application. I could PM you your own SMF credentials (as hash+salt) and you could test your new implementation with that.

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Offline KevinWorkman

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« Reply #89 - Posted 2017-11-16 02:45:03 »

Having to reset your password seems like a pretty reasonable thing when switching to a new site.

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