Java-Gaming.org    
Featured games (81)
games approved by the League of Dukes
Games in Showcase (499)
Games in Android Showcase (118)
games submitted by our members
Games in WIP (568)
games currently in development
News: Read the Java Gaming Resources, or peek at the official Java tutorials
 
    Home     Help   Search   Login   Register   
Pages: [1]
  ignore  |  Print  
  DRM, SUN, TCPA, ...  (Read 2520 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline Bombadil

Senior Member





« Posted 2004-03-10 12:22:37 »

In an interesting article, Sun Microsystems chief security officer Whit Diffie warns that users could lose control of their PCs with the future DRM systems.

This is an interesting point. With great worry I've read during the last years the way TCPA follows (some time ago it's been renamed to sound "better"). Now the list of companies being member of the TCPA consortium never included SUN - until some months ago.

How's SUN's position with DRM and the "mother of DRM named TCPA", and especially how does Java fit into - or not fit into?
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 392
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #1 - Posted 2004-03-10 13:36:41 »

As soon as someone tries to lockdown PC hardware with DRM they will create a market for PCs that aren't locked down.

Cas Smiley

Offline Bombadil

Senior Member





« Reply #2 - Posted 2004-03-10 15:47:16 »

Quote
As soon as someone tries to lockdown PC hardware with DRM they will create a market for PCs that aren't locked down.

I really hope you're right, Cas. And in case Java will run on these "new market PCs" I'm totally happy. :-)
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #3 - Posted 2004-03-10 21:10:02 »

I have vowed that win xp is my last Microsoft OS.  This is why.
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #4 - Posted 2004-03-10 22:14:16 »

Quote
I have vowed that win xp is my last Microsoft OS.  This is why.


Haha. The time XP arrived I thought everyone would stop using MS products. The whole registration process and tons of spy functions... "Who would use that?", I asked myself. I thought that they overdid it and everyone would switch to linux/mac os.... but I was wrong.

I have the bad feeling, that it will turn out that way with TCPA, too. If you cut down the user's rights in small steps the big crowd won't notice anything.

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #5 - Posted 2004-03-10 22:16:11 »

Their monopoly is powerful.  They keep feeding us sh*t and we keep eating it... well most of us...

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 392
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #6 - Posted 2004-03-11 06:52:21 »

Having seen a Mac for the first time years a few weeks ago I might defect... oh no, hang on, Apple are in the pockets of the pigopolists too. Where to turn?

Cas Smiley

Offline Bombadil

Senior Member





« Reply #7 - Posted 2004-03-11 07:41:43 »

Quote

Haha. The time XP arrived I thought everyone would stop using MS products. The whole registration process and tons of spy functions... "Who would use that?", I asked myself. I thought that they overdid it and everyone would switch to linux/mac os.... but I was wrong.

I have the bad feeling, that it will turn out that way with TCPA, too. If you cut down the user's rights in small steps the big crowd won't notice anything.

Compared to the ugly XP registration process the TCPA thing is a "quantum jump" - but in the very negative sense. :-(
Well, I think many people with interest in computers are more sensible what's conerning that TCPA thing. I know several developers who say: No WinXP, but in particular no TCPA Longhorn, no TCPA PC at all.

However you're right in judging the masses: they do what the manipulators tell them to do.

The movie "They live" will have to be redone - this time not with aliens but TCPA :-)  (Well then, I don't think Carpenter meant aliens actually.)
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #8 - Posted 2004-03-11 11:07:42 »

Quote
Where to turn?


I always remember an (internal) company slogan at a place I used to work, "We suck less."

All options suck to some degree.  Go with whatever sucks least.

Offline JasonB

Junior Member





« Reply #9 - Posted 2004-03-11 16:13:33 »

I think you're overlooking the fact that the 'masses' may very well start jumping up and down when they find that they can no longer rip their own CDs and then copy them onto a handheld device because of some DRM feature.  Or that they are restricted in some other way.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #10 - Posted 2004-03-11 16:39:21 »

They're not exactly up in arms about the fact that they can't save video streams to disk, can't play many audio CDs in their machines, are forced to pay royalties to music publishers evey time they buy a CD-R, can't upgrade much in their machine without having to prove they're not a dirty criminal...

Outlook used to do a lot more things automatically, but now it doesn't.  Some files it won't let you receive at all - you can't even retrieve them from a sandbox, it just destroys the attachments when it sees them.  Are people complaining?  No.  Microsoft tells them it's for their own good, and that they wouldn't understand anyway.  Better you just let Microsoft take care of things - you'll be safe then.  You wouldn't want to fall prey to these scary people the media is always telling you about, now would we?

And the sheep shrug, and return to their patch of grass, oblivious to what happening around them.

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #11 - Posted 2004-03-11 16:47:32 »

And on a lighter note...

Quote
I always remember an (internal) company slogan at a place I used to work, "We suck less."


A while back, during my time writing application servers in C, one of our team slogans was:

 "We put the arse in parse"

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #12 - Posted 2004-03-12 19:09:30 »

Quote

And in case Java will run on these "new market PCs" I'm totally happy. :-)


I wouldn't count on it; Sun has a history of being on (IMHO) the wrong side w.r.t. to anonymity, freedom, etc.

c.f.:
Quote
Whoa! Those b*stards at Sun that are responsible for the "no-one is allowed to see our site without password and confirmed email access" policy have turned up the heat (...at least, since the last time I had a JDC id).


(and the history of attempting to make it compulsory to register personal info before being "allowed" to log bugs)

NB: This isn't irrelevant; JDC ID's are fairly rigorously policed. I've had > 5 deleted without warning, presumably because the name and home address were obviously BS.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #13 - Posted 2004-03-12 19:10:23 »

Quote
And on a lighter note...


A while back, during my time writing application servers in C, one of our team slogans was:

 "We put the arse in parse"


ROFL. I know a few friends who would be inspired by that in their current workplaces Grin

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline Bombadil

Senior Member





« Reply #14 - Posted 2004-03-13 06:36:58 »

Quote

I wouldn't count on it; Sun has a history of being on (IMHO) the wrong side w.r.t. to anonymity, freedom, etc.

Yes, you're right.
It would be sad if I couldn't use Java in the future because of "trustworthy computing" (=TCPA). There's no reason at all to trust TCPA. Why should anyone trust a big group? Have they been elected by the people?

So maybe an OpenSource Java, backed up by SUN and IBM and ... would be good. However, TCPA probably will kill OpenSource, too...
Offline K.I.L.E.R

Senior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #15 - Posted 2004-03-13 09:55:49 »

How will TCPA kill opensource?

Vorax:
Is there a name for a "redneck" programmer?

Jeff:
Unemployed. Wink
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #16 - Posted 2004-03-13 10:06:17 »

Quote
How will TCPA kill opensource?


Um, because you can't find a computer that can run open-source software?

IIRC (but it was a long while ago and I may be remembering something completely different here Smiley) the reason you couldn't play DVD's on linux was that the guardians of the encryption system had a recursive restrictive license (just like the GPL) which prevented any licensee from allowing any non-licensee to know the keys etc.

One manufacturer implemented their system badly, so that the keys were easy to get out, and now the whole system has been blown open (because the keys have been distributed widely).

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline K.I.L.E.R

Senior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #17 - Posted 2004-03-13 10:13:38 »

I don't believe TCPA will take over the computing industry.
I don't doubt that there will be implementations of it, but a complete takeover is hard to believe.

Someone eventually will come out and advertise non-TCPA systems for sale at half the price of TCPA systems or something along those lines if TCPA does take over the indsutry.
I would bet it is costly to implement TCPA.

Vorax:
Is there a name for a "redneck" programmer?

Jeff:
Unemployed. Wink
Offline Bombadil

Senior Member





« Reply #18 - Posted 2004-03-13 12:19:11 »

Quote
I don't believe TCPA will take over the computing industry.
I don't doubt that there will be implementations of it, but a complete takeover is hard to believe.

Someone eventually will come out and advertise non-TCPA systems for sale at half the price of TCPA systems or something along those lines if TCPA does take over the indsutry.

There's some good articles about the pro, cons and dangers of TCPA on the net, please have a look at. The cons however by far out-weight the pros for me (and a lot of people actually).

You could imagine TCPA to eat all the market, like it's today with certain monopolies. Take the many Internet sites which just show up correctly with one certain browser, the OS domination, the "Office Word" domination, etc.
Unfortunately a very probably TCPA-scenario is that those who don't use TCPA systems will "just" be locked out in a similar way. One day you'll just be allowed to do Internet banking/shopping/blabla when you're in TCPA mode. Or all the DVDs you buy will just be playable on TCPA systems, the games, too, and so on...

Even if there will be some TCPA-free systems, they'll reside on an isolated island. It's like you switched on your old Amiga computer then: nice system but you can just use it off-line and without today's periphery.

So where and how will Java be in a potential TCPA market?
Offline Mark Thornton

Senior Member





« Reply #19 - Posted 2004-03-13 13:10:27 »

Quote

So where and how will Java be in a potential TCPA market?

I don't see any major problems for Java (at least in principle). A TCPA operating system can certify that a Java application is the one that is expected (verify jar signatures). Or more likely, the JVM can be certified and it in turn can validate any code running within it. Java application authors that required TCPA type operations would have to get their applications certified and signed by some agency. This is likely to cost significant money, and it that which would pose the first barrier to open source software regardless of language --- who pays.

So open source software would need some sugar daddy to pay for the certification of the critical components. While still open source, you wouldn't be able to change this code without recertifying (and paying again).

All assuming that TCPA doesn't rely on obscurity for its security, but no one would be that dumb would they ...

Pages: [1]
  ignore  |  Print  
 
 
You cannot reply to this message, because it is very, very old.

 

Add your game by posting it in the WIP section,
or publish it in Showcase.

The first screenshot will be displayed as a thumbnail.

Riven (10 views)
2014-10-02 14:36:20

Pippogeek (41 views)
2014-09-24 16:13:29

Pippogeek (32 views)
2014-09-24 16:12:22

Pippogeek (22 views)
2014-09-24 16:12:06

Grunnt (48 views)
2014-09-23 14:38:19

radar3301 (30 views)
2014-09-21 23:33:17

BurntPizza (65 views)
2014-09-21 02:42:18

BurntPizza (37 views)
2014-09-21 01:30:30

moogie (44 views)
2014-09-21 00:26:15

UprightPath (53 views)
2014-09-20 20:14:06
List of Learning Resources
by Longor1996
2014-08-16 10:40:00

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-08-05 19:33:27

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:20:17

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:19:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:29:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:26:06

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 11:54:12

HotSpot Options
by dleskov
2014-07-08 01:59:08
java-gaming.org is not responsible for the content posted by its members, including references to external websites, and other references that may or may not have a relation with our primarily gaming and game production oriented community. inquiries and complaints can be sent via email to the info‑account of the company managing the website of java‑gaming.org
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Managed by Enhanced Four Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!