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  Naroth - 3D open world RPG  (Read 109388 times)
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Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #30 - Posted 2016-02-21 10:21:11 »

The sword slashes are calculated based on some sin/cos formulas...no idea what's wrong with them or what you mean by choppy in that context...

Offline ziozio
« Reply #31 - Posted 2016-03-04 18:41:11 »

Hi, I have managed to work around the font issue I had (I made the screen brighter), I am liking the game so far. In terms of the leveling, what experience do you need to get to different levels? Do the mobs level with you or do different area's have different level mobs? (I've explored a few places)
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #32 - Posted 2016-03-04 18:48:17 »

Experience points needed for the levels are (starting with level 2):

1  
2  
3  
4  
5  
6  
7  
8  
9  
10  
300, 600, 1000,
2500, 3700, 5000,
6500, 8000, 10000,
12000, 14000, 16500,
19000, 22000, 25000,
28000, 32000, 36000,
40000, 45000, 50000,
55000, 62000, 69000,
76000, 82500, 89500,
96000, 105000, 115000


The enemies don't level with you. At the beginning, you should be able to beat urapis (these spider like beings), snakes and maybe a single goblin, if you are lucky.
Everything else will wipe the floor with you.

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Offline ags1

JGO Kernel


Medals: 356
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Make code not war!


« Reply #33 - Posted 2016-03-04 19:11:06 »

In Vangard I have each level cost a constant 50 points. But experience rewards are reduced by level, so killing a goblin might be worth 7XP at level 1 but worth 1XP at level 7.

Offline CommanderKeith
« Reply #34 - Posted 2016-03-05 02:30:02 »

Naroth updated on my phone! Nice

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #35 - Posted 2016-03-05 08:33:10 »

In Vangard I have each level cost a constant 50 points. But experience rewards are reduced by level, so killing a goblin might be worth 7XP at level 1 but worth 1XP at level 7.
That's the approach that The Witcher 3 takes as well. The end result is basically the same. However, I prefer 'my' system, because it feels less punishing to the player. If you decrease the earned experience with each level, the player (or at least I and some others that I talked to) feels directly punished for leveling up. If you just increase the XP needed for each higher level and leave the XP of the enemies untouched, this is not the case so much.
Of course, the end result is the same...it's just about how it feels...

Offline Hydroque

JGO Coder


Medals: 25
Exp: 5 years


I'm always inspiring a good time.


« Reply #36 - Posted 2016-03-05 23:18:29 »

At the same time it is realistic. Only in the stance of - you level up stabbing goblins isn't as rewarding anymore because you learn them. Which brings my interest to levels being determined based on how much of each type of monster you have killed and the things you do.

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Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #37 - Posted 2016-03-06 11:07:11 »

Neither of these approaches is actually "realistic". They are both just gameplay mechanics. There is no such thing as a "level" or a "skill tree" in real life. Linear levels and diminishing XP for kills and quests are a way to balance huge open world games like The Witcher 3, because it prevents the player from grinding. On the other hand, it makes balancing more difficult. In Naroth, I can almost exactly determine, how much XP the player can earn in the game in total, so that I could tweak it towards a "final" level (which is 30 btw.) and it doesn't matter in which order he levels up, finishes which quest or kills which monster. The end result will be the same. With diminishing XP, this is not so easy. Another approach to deal with this is to make the enemies level up with you (Oblivion, Skyrim to a degree), but I don't like that too much.

Offline ags1

JGO Kernel


Medals: 356
Projects: 7


Make code not war!


« Reply #38 - Posted 2016-03-06 14:53:28 »

EgonOlsen is correct, I use the diminishing XP approach because most of my players are AIs, and they are REALLY good at grinding - hunan players wouldn't stand a chance. So I have an experience system that caps levelling based on the routine activities of a profession. For example I know upfront a woodcutter cannot advance beyond level 5 without changing careers...

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #39 - Posted 2016-03-10 08:07:58 »

The game now works on devices with a turkish locale as well. Remember: The turks have two i, one dotted, one not. And if you convert an I to lower case on a turkish locale, you end up with a lowercase i without the dot, which might not be a good idea if you try to load a file of that name... Grin

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Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #40 - Posted 2016-03-24 19:20:37 »

ahhh the turkish locale thing was driving me crazy, man. I fixed it after reading it on your update. Thanks!

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #41 - Posted 2016-03-25 08:44:08 »

In some reviews on Google Play, people mentioned that the game needs a little more polish. So I asked a coworker of mine and he'll do a polish translation... Grin
Be careful what you wish for... Wink

Offline ShadedVertex
« Reply #42 - Posted 2016-03-25 12:27:14 »

In some reviews on Google Play, people mentioned that the game needs a little more polish. So I asked a coworker of mine and he'll do a polish translation... Grin
Be careful what you wish for... Wink

Haha, nice Cheesy

But seriously, I think the textures are a little low-res. I mean, I don't expect AAA graphics, but the game definitely needs better graphics.
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #43 - Posted 2016-03-25 13:16:24 »

I don't think that higher res textures necessarily make the graphics 'better'. High res textures on low poly models can look pretty inconsistent IMHO. Most textures in the game are either 256*256 or 512*512. One or two are even 1024*1024. Given that the game uses over 230 textures in total and that I simply don't have higher res textures for a lot of the models, I'll leave it as it is to keep the look consistent (as far as it's possible when combining the work of so many different people) and to keep loading times as well as memory and storage needs as low as they are. After all, this is still running on mobile devices with limited resources.

Offline DavidBVal
« Reply #44 - Posted 2016-03-25 13:50:25 »

Honestly, the thought the game needs better graphics never crossed my mind. Looks great. If anything, needs more content! Smiley

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #45 - Posted 2016-04-12 19:47:31 »

Released a new update with a new, basic options menu that lets you, among other things, increase the grass' detail level a little:


Offline Cero
« Reply #46 - Posted 2016-04-17 23:31:58 »

- auto save would be nice
- please dont make me read so much before anything starts, especially on a phone game, I get the point of it, but maybe there is a better way
- some of the menus are a little too complex for a phone game
- the controls are... ok for this type of game on a phone, truthfully I dont know how to do it better, games on phones... but yea you get a lot of drunken stumbling, looking and waving your sword around
- by choppy animations that were mentioned he means swinging the sword doesnt really look like he is really swinging, its more waving a little, needs more punch, broader movement
- enemies in starting area that one shot kill me... well its a design decision... as long as its intended... x) (not gonna complain while playing Dark Souls 3 all day...)

I think its pretty awesome and has lots of potential a la Kings Field and Morrowind

it makes me wonder how good tilt controls would be... tilting it to the left makes you turn left, right ,right, and maybe tilting forward and backwards for walking... but what about the camera... yea control without any sticks and buttons...

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #47 - Posted 2016-04-18 15:13:30 »

- auto save would be nice
I thought about it, but decided against it. Especially later in the game and on slower devices, saving can take quite a few seconds and I don't want to interrupt the game every now and then this way. I may add some reminder though.
- please dont make me read so much before anything starts, especially on a phone game, I get the point of it, but maybe there is a better way
Yes. The better way would have been some full blown cut scenes, but I can't do these. The text dump at the beginning acts as exposition (to tell the player why he's actually there) and as the character creation. Your answers define your character's attributes. If you can't stand this intro texts, you can't stand the game (it contains quite a lot of text and you have to read it, because there are no quest markers or anything like that), so it also serves as a kind of filter...
- some of the menus are a little too complex for a phone game
Which ones and where in particular?
- the controls are... ok for this type of game on a phone, truthfully I dont know how to do it better, games on phones... but yea you get a lot of drunken stumbling, looking and waving your sword around
I think that they are pretty good once you get used to it. I played a lot of similar games to get some ideas and personally, I found them all worse then mine. Virtual sticks and such are never perfect...
- by choppy animations that were mentioned he means swinging the sword doesnt really look like he is really swinging, its more waving a little, needs more punch, broader movement
To do that, I would have to show the hand and a part of the arm. But I don't have those, so I'll leave it as it is. After all, only 2 players complained about the animation so far.
- enemies in starting area that one shot kill me... well its a design decision... as long as its intended... x) (not gonna complain while playing Dark Souls 3 all day...)
It's open world on the one hand and not that large on the other. So it's only natural that you run into some harder enemies pretty quickly. Some players complained that the enemies are much too easy while other claim that they are too hard... Wink
it makes me wonder how good tilt controls would be... tilting it to the left makes you turn left, right ,right, and maybe tilting forward and backwards for walking... but what about the camera... yea control without any sticks and buttons...
I really don't think that this would work...I'll leave it to somebody else to give it a try... Grin

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #48 - Posted 2017-02-07 21:09:11 »

Today is the first anniversary of Naroth's release. I guess somebody might be interested in some numbers:

  • The game has been download 185,463 times until now. I'm pretty happy with that considering that I made no marketing for it other than a few forum posts.
  • The current rating is 4.245 with a slight but steady tendency to rise over time.
  • 4,357 players rated the game so far.
  • The game is most popular in russia (MAYBE because it offers a russian translation). Almost 40% of all downloads come from russian devices and only 22.4% from english ones.
  • You can find ~65 youtube videos that somehow are dealing with the game.

...and some findings (slightly exaggerated in parts):

  • Players are not used to die anymore in games: Naroth is open world and it's quite small. So it's only natural that you'll run into unbeatable enemies pretty soon. Some people consider this to be a bug/inbalance/control issue.
  • Players don't save but rely on auto-save (there's still no such thing in Naroth though).
  • Players use one save slot only.
  • Players save (to the only save slot they are using) immediately once they got stuck in the level geometry due to collision detection issues.
  • Players consider the death screen (a blurry version of the normal screen with load/save menu displayed) to be a bug. They don't realize that they just died.
  • Players are giving a game a one star rating because it's not in their language hoping that this will motivate somebody to translate it.
  • Volunteers doing the translations usually don't finish it (except for that russian guy that pulled through).
  • Players do get Skyrim references...
  • ...but they don't get any of the others.
  • Making a russian translation is worth it, at least for gaining reach (maybe not so much if you intend to sell your game).
  • For every 20 players who think that the game is a master piece, there's at least one who thinks that it's the worst game ever. He usually doesn't tell you why though.
  • Replying to comments on Google Play pays off (at least most of the time).
  • Most downloads happen on the weekends.

Plans for the future: Currently, there's a complete overhaul of the english version in progress, which I'll most likely translate back into german. I also plan to add some additional higher level content within the next year or so.

Edit: This is the statistics graph of the daily downloads. I've no idea where these huges jumps come from:

Offline VaTTeRGeR
« Reply #49 - Posted 2017-02-08 08:27:25 »

Quote
Players are not used to die anymore in games: Naroth is open world and it's quite small. So it's only natural that you'll run into unbeatable enemies pretty soon. Some people consider this to be a bug/inbalance/control issue.

I don't think the problem is that they can meet higher-level enemies, but that finding out which one is beatable is trial and error (read: frustrating), at least that was my very first experience with Naroth.
I don't remember that there was any clear indication of the enemies level, maybe I remember it wrong, idk.
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #50 - Posted 2017-02-08 08:35:33 »

No, there isn't. And there's not supposed to be such an indicator. The indicator actually is you dying. If you can't beat an enemy, you are obviously too weak, so stay away and come back later. I don't see the problem with that approach. Quite a lot of desktop RPGs work that way (still...) and usually nobody complains. It just seems to be that on mobile, some people expect to be able to kill everything from the getgo.

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