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  I am doing an online java RPG  (Read 9954 times)
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Offline Phibred

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Posted 2004-02-21 02:36:50 »

Hello,
I am doing a java online RPG,
if any one has any ideas please post below  Grin.
My team has a odd job system based on objectives.
Its 2D using a simple tile based system.
Its working name is "The Spirits of Luna". I have noticed the want for a good online RPG for java so I thought I would try one. I am about to switch it over to a UDP packetting threaded system (it was on a linear tcp system that I designed but cause too much lag with a couple of users). We are in my Gama Alfa phase (no spires but some connection protocols are working).

If you are interested in the project or want to give an idea E-mail me or add me to MSN messenger at Phibred@hotmail.com

James Vaughan ~ Project Leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'
Offline Phibred

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #1 - Posted 2004-03-01 01:45:23 »

Hey, its me again.

I am disapointed no 1 posted.... any way, heres the update.

I just got the first Server Client run through successfull in UDP. I am just converting some older TCP code right now. A primitive beta for connection should be done in about 1~2 weeks.

James Vaughan ~ Project Leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'
Offline Breakfast

Senior Member




for great justice!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2004-03-01 09:34:01 »

Well you didnt really ask any specific questions- we are pretty good for answering specifics. But it's hard to answer "Anyone got any ideas?" when all the information we have is "I am doing a java online RPG."

I would think to start by looking at some of the existing java online rpgs- there are quite a few in the "Your Games Here" thread, as well as Runescape, Puzzle Pirates and friends. That would give you some points of reference, too, to explain the type of thing you are doing.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Phibred

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #3 - Posted 2004-03-04 01:20:21 »

Well, ok here is what we have so far.

It is going to be a MMORPG with a new feature (for most MMORPG's) an actual story line  Cheesy.

Its like a massive normal RPG that a bunch of friends can enjoy playing as I will give every thing away for people to make their own servers.

So its going to be a mix between a traditional RPG and an online one.

The fighting system is like secret of mana, so no 'random' battles, but the spell casting is done in real time with a special system.

Battle is governed by 2 variables, your stamina and the rate you recover it at. Attacking takes away stamina (you need 100% to attack).

Now, this system has all attacks (including magic) draw from stamina so we have our own special catch that make this really unique (as far as I know). Certain Magic spell can have a 'charge' time. That is, the longer you hold the casting button the more powerful the spell becomes, however it drains your stamina and if you run out the spell dispates.

This creates a more realistic "critcal hit" idea, focussing all of your power into a single shot.

One of the least devoloped things we have is a real plot so far. Any ideas to make a great plot are welcome, I have been reading some sites that suggest the strengs and drawbacks of certain plots and they all lead me to the conclusion that doing a mmorpg with a detailed plot will be insainly hard to say the least.

This is one reason that I want to try to keep the feel of a LAN party in mind. Just a bunch of friends enjoying a game together.

Things like EverQuest and other MMORPGs only really have the story about the world and lots of quests to get to the next level or to get a special item.

I want people to feal like they have read a really good book. Odd but true. I believe the best games allow teh player to become their character, not just use that characters name and run around killing things.

Now back to my progress,
I have changed the server into a UDP server (previously TCP/IP) I am now getting so much data to the clients and so fast I am glad I did. My new system is faster and more reliable and we are jsut cracking down on the last few bugs right now. The Client program is also up to speed with the new server code, which was a hassle as I had to restructure it with a thred to avoid lock ups...   Tongue

Now, ideas for how people could help 'The Spirits of Luna' project. Since this project is for my final ISU in my grade 12 year at school my biggest enemy is time and creating a massive and detailed plot is the definition of time itself  Wink. So the biggest help would be ideas of what people really like in plots, or really anything else like your favorite text system or how to make something work faster.... (I will explain how in a moment)

Since I wish this code to be Open Source if you mail me at Phibred@hotmail.com I can find a way for you to get a copy of the game and server. We are in the middle of getting a new Domain previously www.nbjnetworks.ca but we might be moving to DreamCarver.ca or SpiritsOfLuna.ca, we will be posting the latest news and have all of the patches and code there once we have the new domain.

In short, I am looking for any help with any part of the proccess, if you ever really liked something or wished that some 1 would ever make it post or just send me mail or just add me (that is also my MSN messenger account). I will keep you updated on the code and the rest of the game and I will add you to the credits after we are done (temporarly I will add you to the development guid as I get your ideas).

Thanks for listenning and helping,
Yours truly,
James Vaughan, Project leader of The Spirits of Luna

James Vaughan ~ Project Leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'
Offline DrBizzar0

Junior Member




Raj raj!


« Reply #4 - Posted 2004-03-04 05:10:52 »

I would say it's impossile to do a mmorpg with a detailed story line, since there is so many players in it. If you take massive out of it though, well then it's still kind of hard but I think do able. Take a look at BioWares Neverwinter Night, I've just played it briefly but it seems to have a good design for storydriven roleplaying with a pen and paper rpg sized adventurer group. But then it features a human game master off-course Smiley, which maybe isn't your intention?

For general ideas on problems with interactive stories I would recomend these books:
Janet Murray - Hamlet on the Holodeck
Espen Aarseth - Cybertext

and for general storydesign
Robert McKee - Story
Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Member




Who, me?


« Reply #5 - Posted 2004-03-04 22:27:14 »

Quote
I would say it's impossile to do a mmorpg with a detailed story line, since there is so many players in it.


I recently played on a Tolkien-inspired MUD called The Two Towers.  While it is an MMO game, there is also a main story that each and every one of the players takes part in - individually.  You go off on your own and trigger something that takes you elsewhere to act out part of the main quest, and when you're done you return to the "real" world to continue as normal.  This means to all intents and purposes that each player exists in an MMO world, but each player is the single protagonist of the story - there no indication that anyone else is going through the same story as you, so even though that's not really true it just doesn't matter.

I mention this because this is the only time I've ever seen an MMO pull off a real storyline.  The story has to be sectioned and interspersed with more traditional MMO dynamics, but it's there.  Also, you can't get anywhere near as detailed as with a single-player game, as otherwise you'd have an MMO where no two people ever meet! Wink

I think there's scope for abstracting this out into group-based storylines.  As long as you're able to enforce a no-spoilers policy between players, something like this has a good chance of working, IMHO.

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #6 - Posted 2004-03-05 08:40:22 »

If you want storyline, I'd write a MUD first. As a developer you can generate exactly the same story-based gameplay 10 times to 100 times as fast with a MUD as with an MMOG.

http://www.stratics.com/content/articles/mmoguide.php

If the story aspect works well, you can then make an MMOG out of it. Several of the biggest MMOG's were made this way - MUD first, get the gameplay just right, attract and retain hundreds of players, then start again with an MMOG version.

It would be foolish to assume that you'd get it right first time, and so by the end of doing the MUD version you would be *much* better at making game story, and you'd produce an MMOG that was probably several orders of magnitude better than if you start now.

Doing a MUD, you're also many many many times more likely to actually finish the game. This isn't negative, it's statistics - you have approximately a 0.01% chance of finishing the game if you start an MMOG now (BTW that's an optimistic estimate; it's probably too high by a factor of 100).

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 282
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #7 - Posted 2004-03-08 11:46:07 »

Not sure why everyone thinks they can suddenly whip up the MM part from thin air without, like, years and years of development time... seems world+dog is writing MMOGs these days - in the end we'll all have 1 game each and sit in a virtual universe, all on our own...

Cas Smiley

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #8 - Posted 2004-03-08 15:31:41 »

The same thing happened when deathmatch doom came out...everyone thought they could make multiplayer games and that they'd be automatic multi-million sellers, and many games had sucky multiplayer gameplay.

If you look up that old Xwing-vs-tie-fighter article on Gamasutra, you see yet another game programmer who admitted he/they knew next to nothing about network programming and yet tried to make a AAA real-time network multiplayer game. Without learning any of the background of realistic net behaviour etc. What a surprise, it worked poorly!

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline Phibred

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2004-03-08 21:41:12 »

True,
Because I know this game will not EVER have the popularity of a game like everquest I want to make it more like a LAN game. So there would be servers for a group of friends... I would release servers so poeple can hold parties to play the game or stuff like that. So I could have a REAL story line because its not hosting 1000 people on a server, maybe just 8 to 10.... or less lol.
With the smaller feel I beilive that this may start a new trend in gamming. RPG's for LAN parties. It could replace StarCraft (not neccisarly MY game but a game on the same concept).

I understand that MMORPG's take a long time to write, but my proccesses have simplified it so that it is possible to make a desent one in 2D is about 6 months. My only rush is mainly the art. The artest in my team doesn't like to draw sprites.
My server is up and running, on a basic level, just have to run some diagnostics.... seams to give about 320 packets per second to 1 user. (There are delays so the server doesn't kill the computer it is on).

So far so good...

Thank you for listenning,

James Vaughan, 'The Spirits of Luna' project Leader

James Vaughan ~ Project Leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Jeff

JGO Coder




Got any cats?


« Reply #10 - Posted 2004-03-09 05:49:55 »

SO a friend of mine describes thie phenomenon well.

He teaches at a major tech school and says basically this:

"There are some students who come into the animation program and just want to know where two buttons on Maya are: The "make T-rex" button and the "win academy award button."

Similarly there are some students who come into the game development program and want these two buttons: "make MMOLRPG", "get rich".

To some extent its a natural thought as players who play a game like EQ are generally struck pretty quickly by how limited the gameplay is.  What they fail to appreciate is that its not that the folks who wrote EQ were idiots, but rather that it is so HARD technically to do a massively scalable on line game that the guys who did EQ weren't ABLE to do more with the gameplay.

Its an understandable, if hubristic and perhaps a bit childish, mistake.

Got a question about Java and game programming?  Just new to the Java Game Development Community?  Try my FAQ.  Its likely you'll learn something!

http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Games/JeffFAQ
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 85
Projects: 25


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #11 - Posted 2004-03-09 05:55:56 »

"320 packets per second to 1 user"!!!!  Shocked

Kev

Offline bmyers

Junior Member





« Reply #12 - Posted 2004-03-10 16:54:32 »

I am curious -- is that "1 user" on the same machine (e.g. 127.0.0.1), on a local LAN, or somewhere out on the Internet?   Wink

Offline Phibred

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2004-03-13 04:43:19 »

The 320 was over the net, but very close.

James Vaughan

James Vaughan ~ Project Leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'
Offline Phibred

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #14 - Posted 2004-03-13 04:57:46 »

Quote
SO a friend of mine describes thie phenomenon well.

He teaches at a major tech school and says basically this:
/*
Similarly there are some students who come into the game development program and want these two buttons: "make MMOLRPG", "get rich".
*/...
Its an understandable, if hubristic and perhaps a bit childish, mistake.


Ok, I have 1 advantage over the people who made EverQuest, I am designing the 'Quest' for less people. It is less of a MMORPG than a RPG with multiple people playing at the same time. That is why I can get a real story line built into the game.

Second of all It is not some childish dream, I am not looking for cash, I am not looking for fame. I just want the self pride that I was able to make such a thing work.

I never had the vision, oh look at EQ wow I could write something even better. I just started to write an RPG and my friend wanted to do some networking for a different project, we got together and merged the code to create the core of this game.

I find your comment quite insaulting to my team as we are not just a bunch of nut jobs looking for fame or other ritchs. The more people who start to write decent MMORPG's and other online games the better the community as a whole benfits as we become more educated.

"Even a failed attempt is better than no attempt at all."
~
James Vaughan, Project leader of "The Spirits of Luna".

James Vaughan ~ Project Leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #15 - Posted 2004-03-13 11:15:36 »

Quote


Ok, I have 1 advantage over the people who made EverQuest,
...
I find your comment quite insaulting to my team as we are not just a bunch of nut jobs looking for fame or other ritchs.


AFAICS Jeff was making a general comment rather than a specific criticism, so don't get angry with him Smiley.

Although I think the quote he related says as much (perhaps more)  about the speaker than it does about the students. It's an attitude of non-empathy and uncaring condemnation that I've seen a lot from professors (seemingly more so the more expert/respected they are in their field - but there are exceptions that show it needn't be that way. E.g. I found Fred Brooks to be very open and friendly the one time I shared a pint with him Smiley) and was instrumental in me choosing not to do a PhD.

Quote

"Even a failed attempt is better than no attempt at all."


"The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything", Edward Phelps. (from the Dictionary of Quotations Smiley)

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline jared888

Senior Newbie




Eat your own shorts. Leave mine alone.


« Reply #16 - Posted 2004-03-15 09:14:46 »

Here is a thought Phibred,

It is something I thought about doing with NWN when I was tinkering with making a module.

Take this with a grain of advice, because this very idea is what kept me from finishing the module.

Just like all (most) other mmorpg games, you need to set up factions.

Make each faction useable/joinable. No pure npc factions, with one exception (explained below). No player guilds. (Ok, radical idea, read on...if you must have player run guilds, they must be affiliated with a faction that is game-set)

Players are forced to join a faction .That faction becomes their guild.

Give each faction a number of attributes. Things like economic, military, political power. Give the factions a cashflow, production, etc.

Make it so that every single mission that your players take on affects 1 or more factions. Make sure that the player can see that the faction has increased/decreased in power for every action taken.

As the player builds reputation/standing/whatever with the faction (and against otherfactions) then several thuings have to happen:
1) The player gets promotions/demotions
2) The player gets targeted for agression by opposing factions. Not just pvp or fighting aggression, but economic and political as well. (No, you can't dock here, no you can't sell there, your pet politician was just assasinated, etc.
3) The gameplay of all players combined affect the ultimate outcome of each faction. Publish a goal within each faction, "Destroy faction X" or "Take over the squirbie market" or "Own 51% of all politicians in the game".

You have to have npc politicians, and political positions (or something equivalent) and each politician leans a % towards each faction.  They also have a %  standing with each player. So players can request favors, missions, etc from politicians.

As a player gains rank, make that player capable of making faction decisions. In other words, let them hold official positions within the faction. Like treasurer. Yes, give a player the capacity to STEAL from his own faction. It happens in real life, why not a game? Let another player be the political officer, the media officer, etc.

But they have to EARN those positions. And other newer players will in some instances be accountable to older more experienced players.

Basically, what i am proposing, is that you create the ability for players to modify the storyline. If a player wants to kill the npc president of xyz faction, make the npc  available to kill. SO what?

Every time a faction dies, create a new one to fill the void. It will be less powerful, more vulnerable, etc. But that is how it works.

Now, you also have to have one or more pure npc factions, that form the basis of your "invaders". The badguys. Be they aliens, pirates, mongols, or an army of walking piraahnas, they are EVIL, and they attack on sight. This is the group that you pass rumors around via the in-game news media. FOr players that are positioned in the right factrions and are inthe right positions, you email them tidbits of info, some true, some not quite true, some inbetween. The EVIL faction lurks on the edges of the game, available for those that want to eek them out and get hosed. The EVIL faction will attack as soon as a pre-set condition is met, such as faction X is destroyed, or time y has passed, etc.

You are, from what I can tell, trying to build an RPG where all playters are equal. Try that, and you have a flat playing field. How many people would play a multiplayer fps that only had flat playing areas? people get bored with that.  All players are not equal.

make it dynamic.

And if a faction or player does something that derails your storyline, change your storyline.

Soryline: XabuXabu trhe leader of the earth republic was assasinated!!  Breaking news, it was a clone that was assasinated, xabu is fine and well and seeking vengeance against the assailant. In the background, suddenly the player is listed as a target for agression from 95% of all other players, factions, etc.

See what I mean? Let the players screw up your story. This isn't your story, its theirs. At least, that is the way THEY see it.


Beware the rabbit of the mind, for it gnaweth on the carrot of the soul.
Offline Phibred

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #17 - Posted 2004-03-18 01:42:06 »

Wow,
That is a great idea. I am thinking of having (5ish) major factions based on what job they start with. I have a basic story line worked out but this can still play in very well.

The Story Line:

Vespa (the planet's temp name) was created by the 3 gods of the moon, Luna. Good, Justice and Evil are the 3 traits of these gods. Good and Evil are locked in an eternal war with Justice keeping the in balance.

The massive amount of energy that this war created gathered into the planet and created life on Vespa. Eventually a link was created between Vespa and Luna, the Spirits' Towers, one on Luna and one on Vespa.

However in the modern day the tower on Vespa has losts its power because of the Great war. In the great war the orbs that spread the power throughout the world were taken. Now the planet is starting to die withought the energy of its creators.

Only once the orbs are returned will the planet be safe.

Part 2:
You learn that the tower on Luna itself has started to be destroyed due to the pent up energies from the Wars. Using the fully fixed tower on Vespa you must travel to Luna to stop the Eternal War between the Gods.

The story line is still being worked out. That is what really ceperates this from EQ and other MMRpg's. I think it mixes the best of an online game with a good ole fashioned RPG.

Thank you for listenning,

James Vaughan ~Project leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'

James Vaughan ~ Project Leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'
Offline Phibred

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #18 - Posted 2004-03-18 01:55:11 »

With the 5 major factions, you can choose to be good, evil or 'Justice', in the end allowing the story to change. Each of the factions have there own different life styles, 2 good, 1 Evil, 1 Justice and 1 Tecnology driven race. The good races are from sister contries and only differ slightly however there still is a difference, one is peace loving, the other is anti evil. To end the war you help the god you are with (unless you are peace loving, then you get an alternet path). The major battelling of the factions happens at the end where each are working against eachother to help their god to victory. If their god wins, the story line ends <so far>, but it is their victory. We may have different sur plot lines to extend the game but this first one will be the major one till we write some expansions.

Thanks for listening

James Vaughan ~ Project leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'

btw we now have our domain www.SpiritsOfLuna.ca its not active right now but we will get it fully updated soon.

James Vaughan ~ Project Leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'
Offline Phibred

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #19 - Posted 2004-03-23 23:15:08 »

Hey,
I just finished writing the core for our map editor. Its looking sweet, and it is so efficient, moving the cursor off the screen loads the map on that side and stuff. It will make my level design team really happy.

Thanks for Listenning,
James Vaughan ~ project leader of "The Spirits of Luna"

our site is almsot up www.SpiritsOfLuna.ca

James Vaughan ~ Project Leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 85
Projects: 25


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #20 - Posted 2004-03-24 06:52:55 »

The site didn't seem to want to respond yet :/

Quote

James Vaughan ~ Project leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'


Just an observation but you might consider making the Project Leader bit your signature, save you typing it each time..

Kev

Offline Phibred

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #21 - Posted 2004-04-02 03:05:15 »

Good idea lol. Consider it done.

James Vaughan ~ Project Leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'
Offline NexusOne

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #22 - Posted 2004-04-14 20:51:08 »

if its tile-based, try doing what i found helps the world a lot, making 3 tile dimensions instead of 2 but only rendering it flatly. in other words, a 3d array of tiles. if you render it correctly, and implement gravity, etc, it works really nicely. I did this in my first game attempt, and got so far as correct-angled water reflections using nothing but awt.
Offline Phibred

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #23 - Posted 2004-04-20 03:24:36 »

Ya, I like that system but I don't know if I will have the time to really do it nicely. Right now I ahve a 5 layer system (imap- my 'information mapping' which does the base layers,the bottum of a player's or enemies foot, the 'low object layer', the players body, the 'high object layer' and the effect layer, drawn in that order...). Its a really good idea and I hope if any 1 takes the project over from me will redo the art like that. (After I am done with it I will give it to the public to mod/ code.

Thx.

James Vaughan ~ Project Leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'
Offline Phibred

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #24 - Posted 2004-04-20 13:13:58 »

Hey, its me again.

Ok I have the map editor basically done, I just need to get a full tileset of art done and then it will be uploaded to our site at http://www.SpiritsOfLuna.ca they server is one of my partners home computers so its really slow and stuff, but it is usually on. The first copy will be very 'beta' and won't be fully functional as we do not have any enemy art or AI programming done at this time, so the map maker would only be able to make maps... with nothing on them. Its really nice but kind of confusing to use at the beginning as there are a lot of controls, but I will include a Ream Me for them.

Thanks for listenning,

James Vaughan ~ Project Leader of 'The Spirits of Luna'
Offline lunarknight

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #25 - Posted 2004-04-21 15:48:50 »

Could you explain why you are using UDP rather than TCP now. How come UDP is faster?

And I'm not sure but UDP doesn't garentee that it will arrive to the destination?
Offline SpuTTer

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Lazy Middle Class Intellectual


« Reply #26 - Posted 2004-04-21 16:59:44 »

lunarknight, please see the infamous "discussion" at: http://www.java-gaming.org/cgi-bin/JGNetForums/YaBB.cgi?board=Networking;action=display;num=1046872611

Sacramento Volleyball
"Whitty phrase goes here."
Offline cocolovevienna

Innocent Bystander




Java games rock!


« Reply #27 - Posted 2004-06-23 01:57:11 »

hi,all
I'm a Chinese boy, I want to do that,too.I like java, I like game,so I want to make a online java RPG game with you!!!!
my email is cocolovevienna@hotmail.com
Offline digitprop

Junior Member





« Reply #28 - Posted 2004-06-26 07:48:53 »

Hi Phibred,

anything new from Spirits of Luna? I tried to visit your URL www.SpiritsOfLuna.ca , but got no response from the server.


M. Fischer . www.digitprop.com
Offline ZaBlanc

Senior Newbie





« Reply #29 - Posted 2005-07-21 21:31:03 »

Yer discouraging me from writing the CRAPPIEST MMOG EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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