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  Microsoft to buy Mojang for $2 billion?  (Read 47788 times)
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Offline Gibbo3771

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« Reply #120 - Posted 2014-09-17 17:37:01 »

I bought MC just after it came out of Alpha.

Notch should be proud of his product, no one really has the right to complain about his move. He has brought millions of people joy (and still bringing it, in fact right now I am playing with my gf..playing minecraft that is) from what as basically a "mess around" project, with a smaller user base to exploded and went viral.

He has stuck by his community and kept in touch with them throughout the whole process, he is what we should be aspiring to be imo. He never simply f**ked off as soon as is wallet started to get too heavy to lift.

Also, I agree with some other posters here. The success of his game was luck and he happened to have got the right peoples attention, but he thrived on it and took a huge risk. There was every chance it could have been a "flavour of the month" thing, he gave up is career and probably a lot of other things to work on it.

His risk paid off.

/tips hat

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Offline Nate

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« Reply #121 - Posted 2014-09-17 21:04:48 »

I like to think I have just the right amount of not giving a f**k to handle the kind of "pressure" that Notch and Flappy Birds guy can't handle. Bring it on! Smiley

Ah we all do until it actually happens.
I have friends who are great developers but stress on things easily. I am generally pretty good at dealing with it. Spine has a fair number of users. I do feel I owe my users a lot and I really strive to do right by them: fix bugs, give support, listen, implement things they want, etc. I manage it though, if things are unreasonable, I can't let it bother me. Spine isn't anywhere near Minecraft (yet! Wink ), but I have an idea of how it could scale. I truly don't care if the internet makes me a symbol or if they make up a persona for me that doesn't match reality. Allowing that to get me upset would be akin to getting upset for people being stupid. It doesn't matter if it's a relatively small group of Spine users or a the Minecraft hordes. Welcome to the internet!

Offline Grunnt

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« Reply #122 - Posted 2014-09-18 13:14:58 »

Well Nate, I'm impressed by how hypothetically tough you are Wink

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Offline Nate

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« Reply #123 - Posted 2014-09-18 14:46:46 »

Haha. Cheesy I just don't think it's really that hard to not care about the opinion of millions of strangers.

Offline Riven
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« Reply #124 - Posted 2014-09-18 15:31:14 »

The opinions of millions of misinformed strangers trickle through in your personal life, I suspect.

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Offline Longor1996
« Reply #125 - Posted 2014-09-18 15:37:34 »

Haha. Cheesy I just don't think it's really that hard to not care about the opinion of millions of strangers.

What would you do if a little kid runs up to you and tells you to implement 'XXX' into your Game, or the Kid will scream around and sue you (or something)?
Because thats one of the many (bad) things that happen to extremely known developers all week long.

(Have a nice day! -Longor1996)

Offline KevinWorkman

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« Reply #126 - Posted 2014-09-18 16:01:36 »

The opinions of millions of misinformed strangers trickle through in your personal life, I suspect.

This is an interesting point. It's easy to dismiss famous-people-drama with "of course I could handle anonymous randoms complaining at me on twitter", but then you notice people you meet saying "well I heard that you said X which offended Y, what do you have to say to that?" And you find yourself explaining the same stupid thing over and over again...

Whereas before you were famous, you could just get to know people without them having ideas about you before even meeting you. And how many people now seek you out just to have arguments with you? How many people (who you would like to meet) are now avoiding you because of something they read on the internet?

How exhausting would that be?

Of course, I do not question Nate's toughness. The "famous life spilling over into your personal life" idea just isn't one I had really thought about before now.

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Offline princec

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« Reply #127 - Posted 2014-09-18 16:20:00 »

It's a PITA but the solution is simple... "don't read the comments". I'm gradually coming round to this way of thinking myself - just simply stopping participating in internet gutter culture aka "comments sections". And that includes pointless wastes of space and time like Reddit and 4chan. Think I might even turn comments off on our blog too.

Cas Smiley

Offline BurntPizza

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« Reply #128 - Posted 2014-09-18 16:24:50 »

Of course, I do not question Nate's toughness. The "famous life spilling over into your personal life" idea just isn't one I had really thought about before now.

Now I'm thinking about if you went under some kind of pseudonym, never showed what you looked like, etc. A "Phantom Dev" over here, just your average Joe over there. Obviously you still have to think about what people think of your secret identity, unless you ignore everything like Cas said, but then at least hopefully people can't find you, you can choose to engage them or not.
Offline Damocles
« Reply #129 - Posted 2014-09-18 16:28:51 »

But if you run incognito you will likely not build such a persona, that people refer to (and thus talk about you, wich
enhances you popularity, and thus that of your games)

Somehow people WANT symbols or personas.

Probably a reason some games are marked with the name of the famous designer behind it.

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Offline BurntPizza

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« Reply #130 - Posted 2014-09-18 16:29:59 »

What about Daft Punk?
Offline Riven
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« Reply #131 - Posted 2014-09-18 16:57:38 »

Enlighten me about Daft Punk. (because this fully a capella rip-off remix is awesome)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/3MteSlpxCpo?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/3MteSlpxCpo?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=</a>

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Offline ChrisM

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« Reply #132 - Posted 2014-09-18 17:18:27 »

Daft Punk chose their robot personas to be a symbol. They created the symbol that their fans connect with.
Notch became a symbol, that was not of his choosing and beyond his control. Big difference.

(Aside from Daft Punk being the greatest house groups ever and Notch being the indy game poster child Smiley )

Offline Cero
« Reply #133 - Posted 2014-09-18 18:06:18 »

I don't know, I'm with Nate on this one
the whole world is full of assholes and the most vile of them yell the loudest
even more true for the internet

many games, shows, movies I enjoy really much, I never gave a comment about - its like vote with your wallet / you only comment when you complain

your popularity should speak for itself

who cares about rude people ? :<

Offline KevinWorkman

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« Reply #134 - Posted 2014-09-18 18:28:31 »

I think it's hard to understand the level of fame we're talking about here.

Sure, if it's just your twitter and email overrun with annoying people, fine, we can all probably handle that, and even take some kind of pride in it.

But to go down a hypothetical road, what happens when your girlfriend complains to you that she can't get online without *thousands of disgruntled/bored teenage boys* messaging her, just because they know who you are? What about your parents? Or potential colleagues? What if you *couldn't meet a single person in real life* who hasn't heard something negative about you? And, yeah, okay, "that's what people get for listening to the loud-mouths".. but I bet it gets pretty exhausting to constantly hear whispers and jokes (and flat out accusations) about what a jerk you are, just because you happen to be *good at something*.

What if *everything you touched* was overrun with thousands of "trolls" just because you *happen to be successful*?

It's easy to say "psh, I could handle that" in the same way that we all believe we'd do great in a zombie apocalypse.

"Well just use a fake account and set up secret identities" - glossing over how messed up it is that that's even necessary, it's pretty hard to stay anonymous, especially if you're already famous. Somebody is going to make a connection or figure it out, and then you get flack for "trying to hide" in addition to the normal crap you get. So that's not really an option- plus it misses the whole point of *what if your secret online identity becomes famous*? That's what happens to a lot of the "famous indies", so I'm not sure what the alternative is.

The point is, Notch isn't "selling out", whatever that even means. He's sick of all the crap that comes with fame, *which people in this thread are still giving him*, proving his point even while trying to discredit him for whatever reason. I guess I still just don't really understand the level of vitriol this invokes from people.

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Offline Cero
« Reply #135 - Posted 2014-09-18 18:41:12 »

I get what you're saying Kevin but that is not what we are talking about actually.
Notch isn't George Clooney

people outside of games dont know him, in general people on the streets dont know any game dev, let alone how we looks and what the image is, and his family and shit

plus leaving mojang is going to change ZERO about that popularity. You have to go "off the grid"
and that you could do even when you were still working there

"Well just use a fake account and set up secret identities" - glossing over how messed up it is that that's even necessary,
No thats the meaning of being famous. Also lets not forget not ALL hugely successful games have famous game devs, only if they choose to talk to the media directly, which is usually a marketing/PR job anyway.

it's pretty hard to stay anonymous, especially if you're already famous. Somebody is going to make a connection or figure it out,
I dont really think so. If you just make any name / account and post random games, it seems very unlikely and even once it happens many people wouldnt buy into it.

and then you get flack for "trying to hide" in addition to the normal crap you get.
Thats such a super pessimistic outlook - if your secret stuff is that good, that it too gets so popular, thats something to be happy about. I guess its a state of mind.
And no intelligent person would ever attack any famous person for trying to hide and not get noticed. and who cares about those other idiots.

not trying to attack his decision or whatever, whatever makes him happy I dont really have an opinion, I'm just saying...

Offline gouessej
« Reply #136 - Posted 2014-09-18 20:43:41 »

The opinions of millions of misinformed strangers trickle through in your personal life, I suspect.
especially when they know your full name, where you live, where you work, ...

Julien Gouesse | Personal blog | Website | Jogamp
Offline ChrisM

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« Reply #137 - Posted 2014-09-18 20:52:14 »

I get what you're saying Kevin but that is not what we are talking about actually.
Notch isn't George Clooney

people outside of games dont know him, in general people on the streets dont know any game dev, let alone how we looks and what the image is, and his family and shit

plus leaving mojang is going to change ZERO about that popularity. You have to go "off the grid"
and that you could do even when you were still working there

"Well just use a fake account and set up secret identities" - glossing over how messed up it is that that's even necessary,
No thats the meaning of being famous. Also lets not forget not ALL hugely successful games have famous game devs, only if they choose to talk to the media directly, which is usually a marketing/PR job anyway.

it's pretty hard to stay anonymous, especially if you're already famous. Somebody is going to make a connection or figure it out,
I dont really think so. If you just make any name / account and post random games, it seems very unlikely and even once it happens many people wouldnt buy into it.

and then you get flack for "trying to hide" in addition to the normal crap you get.
Thats such a super pessimistic outlook - if your secret stuff is that good, that it too gets so popular, thats something to be happy about. I guess its a state of mind.
And no intelligent person would ever attack any famous person for trying to hide and not get noticed. and who cares about those other idiots.

not trying to attack his decision or whatever, whatever makes him happy I dont really have an opinion, I'm just saying...

As someone who lives in suburbia, on the East Coast, I can tell you that you would be wrong. The amount of moms that know who "Notch" is, have seen his pic, or sat through the millions of let's plays on YouTube makes him among the most famous of game designers in the mass space. I would venture to say that more kids know who Notch is than Shiggy. True story.

Offline Rayvolution

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« Reply #138 - Posted 2014-09-18 21:17:41 »

I get what you're saying Kevin but that is not what we are talking about actually.
Notch isn't George Clooney

people outside of games dont know him, in general people on the streets dont know any game dev, let alone how we looks and what the image is, and his family and shit

plus leaving mojang is going to change ZERO about that popularity. You have to go "off the grid"
and that you could do even when you were still working there

"Well just use a fake account and set up secret identities" - glossing over how messed up it is that that's even necessary,
No thats the meaning of being famous. Also lets not forget not ALL hugely successful games have famous game devs, only if they choose to talk to the media directly, which is usually a marketing/PR job anyway.

it's pretty hard to stay anonymous, especially if you're already famous. Somebody is going to make a connection or figure it out,
I dont really think so. If you just make any name / account and post random games, it seems very unlikely and even once it happens many people wouldnt buy into it.

and then you get flack for "trying to hide" in addition to the normal crap you get.
Thats such a super pessimistic outlook - if your secret stuff is that good, that it too gets so popular, thats something to be happy about. I guess its a state of mind.
And no intelligent person would ever attack any famous person for trying to hide and not get noticed. and who cares about those other idiots.

not trying to attack his decision or whatever, whatever makes him happy I dont really have an opinion, I'm just saying...

As someone who lives in suburbia, on the East Coast, I can tell you that you would be wrong. The amount of moms that know who "Notch" is, have seen his pic, or sat through the millions of let's plays on YouTube makes him among the most famous of game designers in the mass space. I would venture to say that more kids know who Notch is than Shiggy. True story.


You're all forgetting the disconnection between fame and reality. You'd be absolutely dumbfounded at how many celebs can just wander around the streets and never get noticed. Humans have a funny habit of separating the facial recognition areas of the brains from "Internet/TV" and "Reality" and have a hard time intermixing them. The honest truth is, if any of us (yes, even us) went to our local mall, and Notch walked by us, we probably wouldn't even notice. Now, multiply that with the fact Notch isnt a TV/Movie celeb, most MC fans don't actually see his face on a regular basis. His recognition level is probably closer to that of famous bookwriters like Steven King. . . would you recognize Steven King if you werent actively looking for him in a crowd?

Like Cero said, Notch isn't George Clooney, and quite frankly, Notch isn't really all that unique looking. The only thing that makes him really stand out is that silly hat. Cheesy

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Offline Riven
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« Reply #139 - Posted 2014-09-18 21:19:26 »

It takes one to recognize you, and then everybody else notices. Then you're surrounded by kiddos that think you owe them something because they once paid $10 - after having just spent $15 at Mc D. If you walk the mall three times a week, and it happens once a month, you're going to feel uncomfortable every time you're there. I'm not saying that what you say isn't correct, it's just not fully thought through Pointing (trollololol)

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Offline Rayvolution

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« Reply #140 - Posted 2014-09-18 21:27:28 »

It takes one to recognize you, and then everybody else notices. Then you're surrounded by kiddos that think you owe them something because they once paid $10 - after having just spent $15 at Mc D. If you walk the mall three times a week, and it happens once a month, you're going to feel uncomfortable. I'm not saying that what you say isn't correct, it's just not fully thought through Pointing (trollololol)

haha, yes, that's very true. It really does only take one and then it's all downhill from there.

Speaking of price (semi-derail alert!) I have always found it odd how people pay $10 for a game and feel "entitled" to an infinite years of dedicated bug free content packs and patches, but yet the Pizza they ordered last night was $20.

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Offline HeroesGraveDev

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« Reply #141 - Posted 2014-09-18 21:39:08 »

Summary of this thread: Pizza companies are ripping us off?

Offline KevinWorkman

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« Reply #142 - Posted 2014-09-18 22:30:20 »

I should have been more specific. I wasn't really talking about thousands of people rushing Notch when he walks down the street. I was more thinking *places he would want to hang out before he was famous* like gamedev expos, hackathons, game jams, etc.

But my central point is that Notch has *the right* to do whatever he wants with his time, including selling *his* product or retiring or whatever. The fact that people in this thread have called him a sellout sorta proves his whole motivation: exhaustion from constantly being criticized for crap that *isn't true* or *doesn't matter*.

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Offline Rayvolution

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« Reply #143 - Posted 2014-09-18 22:55:46 »

I should have been more specific. I wasn't really talking about thousands of people rushing Notch when he walks down the street. I was more thinking *places he would want to hang out before he was famous* like gamedev expos, hackathons, game jams, etc.

But my central point is that Notch has *the right* to do whatever he wants with his time, including selling *his* product or retiring or whatever. The fact that people in this thread have called him a sellout sorta proves his whole motivation: exhaustion from constantly being criticized for crap that *isn't true* or *doesn't matter*.

Well, the reason he's being labeled a sellout isn't actually because he sold out. It was because of the image of himself he created. Yes, people can put their own made up pieces together to makeup the personality of Notch, I'm sure Notch "the person" is nothing like what most people think. But the reality is, the puzzle pieces most of us are looking at in this situation are the ones he gave us. If he hasn't of made bold strong statements against big gaming businesses and then "sold out" to one people wouldn't be in an uproar about it. No matter how much people try to sugar coat it or give him the benefit of the doubt, in the end he's a hypocrite. You absolute do not make some of the claims he did, and then sell to Microsoft without being one.

He does have the right to do what he wants, I'm not arguing that for a second. My only beef is his hypocritical nature of going about it; you can't build yourself up as someone who's anti-big gaming, then sell to one without getting a lot of flak. If he hadn't of made all these wild statements (that, surprise surprise, are also why he as a person, is famous) he could of sold to Microsoft and absolutely no one would of cared what he did, and maybe they'd just be concerned for their own reasons about what MS will do to Mojang.

There's no was to excuse Notch's behavior has anything other than hypocritical, he's the one that told us his feelings about big gamedevs and software companies ruining the industry, we didn't make that up. It came right out of the horse's mouth. You also can't argue the "well maybe he was just burned out" because he could of easily just stepped down and retired. If anything, the way he went about this mess just turned him from "famous" to "infamous". So I call BS that this was about getting out of the limelight, if it was, he could have just given his part of the company to the other two owners and left.

So my end point is: Everyone is pissed not because they don't think he has the right to do what he did, but because he's a hypocrite who backed the little guy's, then sold out to a big guy.

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Offline Nate

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« Reply #144 - Posted 2014-09-18 23:16:55 »

What would you do if a little kid runs up to you and tells you to implement 'XXX' into your Game, or the Kid will scream around and sue you (or something)?
You've described Spine users! Grin Wink I have all the pain of stardom but without the boatload of money. Booo!

Quote
What if you *couldn't meet a single person in real life* who hasn't heard something negative about you?
Move to eastern Europe where no one expects you. I have already done this in anticipation.

Besides, Notch still likely has these problems even after selling Mojang.

Quote
it's pretty hard to stay anonymous
If that were true then we'd all know which one of us is Notch. He never really left.

Quote
The point is, Notch isn't "selling out", whatever that even means. He's sick of all the crap that comes with fame, *which people in this thread are still giving him*, proving his point even while trying to discredit him for whatever reason.
Don't get me wrong, if he's tired of whatever and wants to do whatever else, good on him for making his life what he wants it to be. I just like to think through what I would do in a similar spot. It would be goddamned amazing.  Cool Think of the impact I could have on my friends, family, even the world given enough success (at least the parts of the world I like  Tongue).

Offline Cero
« Reply #145 - Posted 2014-09-19 00:05:14 »

Quote
As someone who lives in suburbia, on the East Coast, I can tell you that you would be wrong. The amount of moms that know who "Notch" is, have seen his pic, or sat through the millions of let's plays on YouTube makes him among the most famous of game designers in the mass space. I would venture to say that more kids know who Notch is than Shiggy. True story.

How would a Let's Play of a game tell you about the dev ?
No one knows who actually make games from playing them, only explicit interest would lead to that. Same with movies. There are only so many directors people actually know if they are not INVESTED in movies.

I would like to reference the popular video "This is Phil Fish" and quote one aspect: No one actually knows who Phil Fish is. Only a very sub sub sub range of people know that name. Even some people who know don't care one bit and wouldn't read "news" like that.

If you go to a dinner party where there are doctors, lawyers, accountant, and these people know what you are talking about, then you got something.
Would be like this:
Phil Fish? Never heard.
Minecraft? Oh yeah my nephew plays that.
Notch? Eeeeh is that a person ? (MAYBE one guy knows it has SOMETHING to do with minecraft)
PS4 and Xbone: Yeah I know them. Someone I know has one.
Twitch:  Oh yeah apparently there is this website where people watch video games all day and that was like bought for like billions by amazon.

I am like super invested in video games and how many developer names do I know? MAYBE 50.
Do I know who made freaking I dont know, Deus Ex? Nope. I guess someone who is kinda known, but I'm not sure.
Dark Souls ? f**king love that game - who made it ? eeeeeh Some japanese guy, well FROM SOFTWARE but not sure of the names

And again I like to stress, it is his own fault for talking to the media and showing his face and all of that. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
I guess back then he didn't know and now its too late, but there you go. He never went off the grid during his time at mojang...

Offline Roquen

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« Reply #146 - Posted 2014-09-19 05:31:23 »

It's funny how nobody's mentioned he didn't have 100% control of the company.  He could have wanted to say no.  Even if he had controlling interesting, being nagged by other other shareholders would be a big emotional burden.

You could also look at selling to microsoft as dropping a turd on their lawn.  The have to beat the overall opportunity cost that comes with putting down 2.x billion.  Do the math...and don't forget the math has to be all 'net' gains.
Offline Riven
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« Reply #147 - Posted 2014-09-19 06:54:19 »

Quote
What if you *couldn't meet a single person in real life* who hasn't heard something negative about you?
Move to eastern Europe where no one expects you. I have already done this in anticipation.
It takes one tweet for your efforts to be thwarted. You run out of countries surprisingly fast. And I'd know, I'm posting this from a shed in Chile.

Anyway, for me the worst thing about being filthy rich probably wouldn't be dealing with 'the enemy', it'd be figuring out who's a friend. That stuff is hard enough without people trying to piggy back your wealth. I'd probably put it in a 10 year deposit and see who sticks with you for... you, if any.

It's probably the small things in life that are ruined. I certainly hope to never have more than, say, a modest 10 million.

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Offline Grunnt

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« Reply #148 - Posted 2014-09-19 08:07:11 »

Makes me think of a visit to Nepal. Beautiful country with beautiful people, but one thing made me very uncomfortable. The Nepalese, on average, are dirt poor, and as a tourist I'm walking around basically with a Nepelese year salary as pocket money. This makes many people look at you and treat you as though you might explode in a shower of money. Can't blame them, but it makes everything you do very, very complicated compared to a situation in which the level of wealth is more equal. I expect it is somewhat like that...

Offline Gibbo3771

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« Reply #149 - Posted 2014-09-19 13:04:08 »

Quote
What if you *couldn't meet a single person in real life* who hasn't heard something negative about you?
Move to eastern Europe where no one expects you. I have already done this in anticipation.
Anyway, for me the worst thing about being filthy rich probably wouldn't be dealing with 'the enemy', it'd be figuring out who's a friend.

This. A friend of my family won £1million in the Bingo (First time the million jackpot was put in) and there was two of them playing at the time. If your old, like most people that play Bingo you will probably know the "Split winnings with the party" unwritten rule.

Well that money tore them apart, not only that; the person who won the money (Who got all of it over a legal battle) now has a bunch of new "friends". You might think that £1million is not really filthy rich, but when you spend a good few thousand on a financial advisory; you tend to have a long term investment.

"This code works flawlessly first time and exactly how I wanted it"
Said no programmer ever
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